Quad ADSR DIY

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flisgd
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Quad ADSR DIY

Post by flisgd » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:06 am

Hi,
I'm planing to make a quad ADSR, something like Doepfer A-141-4, but I don't need to control the parameters with CV. So just 4 gate inputs and 4 outputs (4 separately triggerable ADSR envelopes) and only one set of knobs to control the envelope, so it has the same shape for all outputs. How to do something like that? I have no idea.

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Post by Jarno » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:43 am

Read more.

There are plenty of projects, and it all depends on the features you want to have. Given that you want a quad, you might want a simple circuit to prevent the project to become too big and unmanageable (also depending on your skill level).
Also, given that PCB's in China come in packs of ten usually, you might want to make that a dual ADSR and simply plonk two of those PCB's behind a panel to create a quad. Perpendicular PCB or parallel is also a question.

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KSS
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Post by KSS » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:01 am

Go to electro-music.com/forum and visit the DIY section. Ther in the stickies at the top will be a collection of Nicolas circuits. Find the ADSR which has a simple, inexpensive build on stripboard. More better, it is a really good ADSR.

Repeat four times and put it behind your favorite format panel.

Second choice would be the FCUK SystemX, which is a System100M module 140 clone. Rick published a toner transfer layout for its PCB which you should still be able to find. Again, repeat four times and you've arrived at your desired destination.

Don't discount the value of a separate trigger and gate on an ADSR. Moreso when you have four. Nicolas is a clear winner here.

Befaco has the other desirable portion on a multi-unit EG. Stage outputs. The ability to trigger and gate your four from each other is far greater than the sum of four EGs alone. Kits and DIY available there too.
edit to add Befaco and the value of separate Gate-Trig.
Last edited by KSS on Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

JohnLRice

Re: Quad ADSR DIY

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:02 am

flisgd wrote:Hi,
I'm planing to make a quad ADSR, something like Doepfer A-141-4, but I don't need to control the parameters with CV. So just 4 gate inputs and 4 outputs (4 separately triggerable ADSR envelopes) and only one set of knobs to control the envelope, so it has the same shape for all outputs. How to do something like that? I have no idea.
One way might be to make all of the parameters CV controllable and then use one set of knobs to supply CV to all 4. The first one like this that comes to mind is the COTK C911P (5U but whatever 8-) ) You could look at it for inspiration, 5 separate circuits all controlled by a single set of knobs.

Image

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KSS
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Re: Quad ADSR DIY

Post by KSS » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:13 am

JohnLRice wrote:The first one like this that comes to mind is the COTK C911P (5U but whatever 8-) ) You could look at it for inspiration, 5 separate circuits all controlled by a single set of knobs.
With the AS3310 this would be an easy DIY build also.

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Post by KSS » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:27 am

My first reply missed the important detail of having one set of knobs for all four. This means the first two answers given won't easily do what you want.

The Befaco and AS3310 are still in the running. Both will do what you want.
You can get 3310 schematics from the Digisound80 or at PAIA's talk forum under the EKx10 module manual.

There are a few other VCEG's which all follow a similar means of using a CMOS switch to gate the knob control voltages to the four in your case 555 cores.

VCEG is a search term that will be useful. Even though you're not wanting dynamic voltage control for your application, it kind of comes along as necessary to easily do what you want. You simply leave it off the panel.

Which means you can add an expansion later if you change your mind.

Separate gate and trigger, and stage output desirability is still valid.

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Post by Jarno » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:32 am

Missed the "one-knob per parameter" for four EG's as well, but yeah, a VC-ADSR or very expensive potmeters.
So, you are going to trigger the EG's at different times, for a polyphonic synth?

flisgd
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Post by flisgd » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:02 am

Yes, it's for polyphonic synth, so the envelopes need to trigger at different times. And one set of knobs for all of them seems the only reasonable solution it would be weird otherwise.

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Post by flisgd » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:20 am

AS3310 sounds good but a bit expensive (£20.00 total for 4 chips).

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:12 am

flisgd wrote:AS3310 sounds good but a bit expensive (£20.00 total for 4 chips).
:hmm: :despair: Seems incredibly inexpensive to me!

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Post by flts » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:41 am

Aside AS3310, maybe https://electricdruid.net/product/envgen8/

If 20 GBP for four ADSRs sounds too much and you're doing this for personal use, https://electricdruid.net/electric-drui ... eneration/ has the code and the binary files for the ENVGEN8. The PIC microcontrollers themselves are like 1,5 euros a piece - you'll just need to program them yourself.

(Aside a cheap digital option, what JohnLRice says above - 5 GBP for an analog VCADSR that works with minimal additional components is probably less than what you end up paying if you build your own on stripbord to fit the purpose...)

flisgd
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Post by flisgd » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:07 am

Thank you for your answers.
I'll try AS3310, I even bought one piece of this chip some time ago,
I haven't used it yet, but I accidentally put it in place of AS3340. So it is possible that it is already destroyed - those chips have different pins for power supplies :)

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Post by Zwedgy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:25 am

KSS wrote:Go to electro-music.com/forum and visit the DIY section. Ther in the stickies at the top will be a collection of Nicolas circuits. Find the ADSR which has a simple, inexpensive build on stripboard. More better, it is a really good ADSR.
Can you please link me to the post?
I cant find it :despair:

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Post by csaban » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:33 am

Zwedgy wrote:
KSS wrote:Go to electro-music.com/forum and visit the DIY section. Ther in the stickies at the top will be a collection of Nicolas circuits. Find the ADSR which has a simple, inexpensive build on stripboard. More better, it is a really good ADSR.
Can you please link me to the post?
I cant find it :despair:
I think that's the one referred:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=25

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Post by abelovesfun » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:47 pm

Zwedgy wrote:
KSS wrote:Go to electro-music.com/forum and visit the DIY section. Ther in the stickies at the top will be a collection of Nicolas circuits. Find the ADSR which has a simple, inexpensive build on stripboard. More better, it is a really good ADSR.
Can you please link me to the post?
I cant find it :despair:
The AI003 is an updated (with permission) version of that ADSR with a few nice improvements.

https://aisynthesis.com/product/looping ... r-diy-kit/

Free schematic on the /build page.
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SphericalSound
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Post by SphericalSound » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:10 pm

The problem with the Nicolas/AI ADSR is that it has quite a slow attack, IIRC

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abelovesfun
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Post by abelovesfun » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:35 pm

MapacheRaper wrote:The problem with the Nicolas/AI ADSR is that it has quite a slow attack, IIRC
Hi have you used the Ai? I have updated Nicolas' circuit to have a virtually flat attack at it's minimum setting.
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Post by abelovesfun » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:07 pm

Image

Per the video here:
(I am re-racking my studio at the moment and can't make a video right now) you can see that I modified the circuit to have snappy, vertical attack times. The original circuit was indeed slow, and had a bunch of other characteristics that I modified, so it's reasonable to assume that is the same, but it is a different circuit based on the same principal.

I must seem like a crazy person....
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