[AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

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Post by search64 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:58 am

ScottMcCandliss wrote: I'm looking at the drawing titled:

Shokbutsu AB\1054-002.dft
Where is this document?

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Post by ScottMcCandliss » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:26 am

search64 wrote:
ScottMcCandliss wrote: I'm looking at the drawing titled:

Shokbutsu AB\1054-002.dft
Where is this document?
.
My copy was emailed to me. Not sure if I have permission to post it. I believe it's one of the originals from The Human Comparator

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Post by ScottMcCandliss » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:26 am

fuzzbass wrote: I retract what I said above. The steel case comes pre drilled to accept types 1 and 8 pans. M4 fasteners are the best choice for this. To use types 4 or 9 reverbs, some drilling is needed. Better to drill the pan to fit the case. In either case, the mount points are different from the wide holes on the pan accommodating the shock mounts.

What is the advantage of a reverb bag, when the pan is fully enclosed by the case? I have only seen these in open back guitar amps, where wah wah pedals and fat coiled cords are routinely dropped on top the reverb.
From what I've been reading, the reverb bag decouples extraneous mechanically conducted noise. It also isolates any resonance or feedback loops from nearby speakers (of which the TTSH has two), thereby making the reverb cleaner sounding.

The reverb output transducers are microphones of sorts, but instead of an air diaphragm, the springs are the point of reference. This is the reason for the rubber grommet mounting as well. The bag is not the only component to the bag mount system. The open side of the tank is fastened to hardwood strips, which is glued to a piece of two ply corrugated cardboard. This further serves to decouple any ambient mechanical vibrations from the tank.

The vinyl bag also reduces or eliminates sympathetic ringing from the springs due to air pressure vibrations, i.e. it prevents it from acting like a microphone. The case is mechanically connected to the reverb tank via the bag, the cardboard, and nothing else. Conversely, the screw mounting method connects the reverb tank to the case directly via the rubber grommets. Further, it leaves the tank virtually naked with respect to air pressure conduction. This combination seems like a much more accoustically conductive setup than the bag setup, which is bad thing.

If you open the lid of a grand piano, hold down the sustain pedal, and yell real loud at the sounding board and the strings, then listen carefully, you can hear a tonal resonance of what you yelled ringing in the strings for a quite a while. It makes sense to me that reverb tank springs would be susceptible to the same type of mechanical induction. The bag will eliminate any such effect.

I'm inclined to believe that there is something to this thinking (none of it is mine, except for the part about the piano), since they employ corrugated cardboard as an important accoustical element. That's just too hokey not to use some other material if it were just for physical protection. Using other material such as expanded polystyrene (styrofoam) or more usual accoustic decouplers would also have a damping effect, causing the reverb to sound muffled with a shortened delay and rapid rolloff.

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Post by fuzzbass » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:22 pm

ScottMcCandliss wrote:
fuzzbass wrote: I retract what I said above. The steel case comes pre drilled to accept types 1 and 8 pans. M4 fasteners are the best choice for this. To use types 4 or 9 reverbs, some drilling is needed. Better to drill the pan to fit the case. In either case, the mount points are different from the wide holes on the pan accommodating the shock mounts.

What is the advantage of a reverb bag, when the pan is fully enclosed by the case? I have only seen these in open back guitar amps, where wah wah pedals and fat coiled cords are routinely dropped on top the reverb.
From what I've been reading, the reverb bag decouples extraneous mechanically conducted noise. It also isolates any resonance or feedback loops from nearby speakers (of which the TTSH has two), thereby making the reverb cleaner sounding.

The reverb output transducers are microphones of sorts, but instead of an air diaphragm, the springs are the point of reference. This is the reason for the rubber grommet mounting as well. The bag is not the only component to the bag mount system. The open side of the tank is fastened to hardwood strips, which is glued to a piece of two ply corrugated cardboard. This further serves to decouple any ambient mechanical vibrations from the tank.

The vinyl bag also reduces or eliminates sympathetic ringing from the springs due to air pressure vibrations, i.e. it prevents it from acting like a microphone. The case is mechanically connected to the reverb tank via the bag, the cardboard, and nothing else. Conversely, the screw mounting method connects the reverb tank to the case directly via the rubber grommets. Further, it leaves the tank virtually naked with respect to air pressure conduction. This combination seems like a much more accoustically conductive setup than the bag setup, which is bad thing.

If you open the lid of a grand piano, hold down the sustain pedal, and yell real loud at the sounding board and the strings, then listen carefully, you can hear a tonal resonance of what you yelled ringing in the strings for a quite a while. It makes sense to me that reverb tank springs would be susceptible to the same type of mechanical induction. The bag will eliminate any such effect.

I'm inclined to believe that there is something to this thinking (none of it is mine, except for the part about the piano), since they employ corrugated cardboard as an important accoustical element. That's just too hokey not to use some other material if it were just for physical protection. Using other material such as expanded polystyrene (styrofoam) or more usual accoustic decouplers would also have a damping effect, causing the reverb to sound muffled with a shortened delay and rapid rolloff.
That all makes perfect sense Scott, and I guess one could approach a more perfect reverb this way. The only problem is that spring reverb will always be far from perfect, due to the high level of noise being induced in the return line.
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Post by synthcube » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:32 pm

hello folks-- quick progress pics-- prototype TTSH panel resting in new road case, and prototype 1601 panel sitting atop the new boat (wood cheeks not yet installed)



Image

We are delighted with how they turned out. Yes they're black with white text. The color, texture and silkscreen is the same for the TTSH and 1601 panels, and the 1601 boat and TTSH metal cases share the same paint color and texture. (sharp eyes might note a couple small edits to be made before final production versions-no need to mention them here unless you REALLY want to)

- for the TTSH, panels are due to us next week, metal cases the week after. Kitting is underway already.
- we will be publishing the final BOM and ala carte parts page in the next 1-2 days
- 1601 pcbs are in. Wood cheeks are enroute from the woodshop. Most kit parts are in the shop, just awaiting a few longer lead items.

Shipping will commence as soon as practical for everything, based on the queue. Thanks all for the support and the patience
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Post by search64 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:06 pm

Looks really cool!

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Post by fuzzbass » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:12 pm

synthcube wrote: a couple small edits to be made before final production versions-no need to mention them here unless you REALLY want to)
Butterfly needed on TTSH panel.
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Post by sduck » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:57 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
synthcube wrote: a couple small edits to be made before final production versions-no need to mention them here unless you REALLY want to)
Butterfly needed on TTSH panel.
This. If you're going to own this, you might as well brand it!
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Post by search64 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:11 am

I’d really rather you didn’t :confused:

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Post by tenma » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:04 pm

Agreed, please don't.

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Post by Jaytee » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:29 am

Butterfly all the things

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Post by synthcube » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:06 am

interesting about 50/50 split in the opinion-- what we may end up doing is what L-i did with the Vocoder-- (he used cats)-- one version with, one without--- your choice?
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Post by gruebleengourd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:31 am

I very much appreciate all the work you've done to put these together, but I don't really like the idea of branding DIY projects, unless the entire design is yours. Identify on the PCBs so people in the future know what they're working on, but leave it off the panels.

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Post by synthcube » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:08 pm

gruebleengourd wrote:I very much appreciate all the work you've done to put these together, but I don't really like the idea of branding DIY projects, unless the entire design is yours. Identify on the PCBs so people in the future know what they're working on, but leave it off the panels.
that's a really good point of view--- thank you
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Post by tenma » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:19 pm

Yes, PCBs being marked would be a good idea, but I would really prefer not to have the branding on the main panel as think it would detract from the overall look.

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Post by synthcube » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:52 am

We've updated the second OP to include the now-final TTSHv4 BOM, recorded as v1.4

A few key parts are OOS at Mouser but may be available via Digikey or others.

We will have our ala carte parts ordering page up on the store within a day, maybe two at the most.... it will include every part on the BOM you can buy from us, but of course there's no obligation to do so.

much much much thanks to original developers of earlier versions-- and also to our test builders for further refining the BOM etc...
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Post by search64 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:46 pm

Did a quick comparison between this BOM and the previous one I used and the numbering is all over the place. It’ll make more sense to start a new Mouser project, but I’m not sure when or if I’ll have the time anytime soon. I did notice the heatsink is still in there...

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Post by jamieoxford » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:11 pm

search64 wrote:Did a quick comparison between this BOM and the previous one I used and the numbering is all over the place. It’ll make more sense to start a new Mouser project, but I’m not sure when or if I’ll have the time anytime soon. I did notice the heatsink is still in there...
I’ve compiled a mouser project from the new BOM. No previous experience of the TTSH though so just going off the new V1.4 list.
I’ll post something up with links once the ‘a la carte’ menu is online.

@Synthcube - does BOM v1.4 include components for the gate booster and VCO sync? And are there enough components to do both filters? I plan on building both to try them out!

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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:54 pm

You folks are valiant for setting up mouser carts for this, but I warn you it might be a fool's errand.
1. A lot of parts are not available from mouser;
2. Just as soon as you set up the cart, parts will go EOL. This is particularly true for capacitors, and super-particularly true for low value electrolytic capacitors.

That being said, here is some parts subbing advice around capacitors because you WILL be subbing some of them.

1. Except for the .1u values, all the MLCCs should be C0G (no they dont all need to be, but distinguishing which ones don't will lead to confusion). There are four different types of .1u caps (SMD X7Rs, Film Caps, C0G MLCCs and Electrolytics). Make sure you get the correct types when subbing these.

2. All the ceramic and film caps should have 5mm lead spacing, except the two .022u / 20n film caps - these required 7.5 lead spacing.

3. the 680p caps in the 4027-1 vco cores should be polystyrene types. You can if you want to be a total tweak, replace the .022u / 20n film cap in the S&H with a polystyrene cap - slightly better than the acceptable film cap in the BOM.

4. All of the electrolytic caps MUST have max 5mm diameter, 2mm lead spacing, and be polarized types. The ones in the DC-DC converter section MUST be rated 105c. To make thing simpler, and promote longer life, get all electrolytics rated 105c.

5. All electroytic caps should be rated 50V, except the 47u ones, which should be rated 25V. You won't find 50v rated 47u caps with diameter 5mm.

6. The 10u caps should have case height max 7mm. Otherwise there will be a fit problem with those installed on the 4027-1 and 4072 sub boards.

Lastly, and although I did not ask Synthcube to change this, the BOM lists two 2.2M resistors that must be 1/2 watt. I'm not sure where this came from, but there is no way that a 2.2M resistor with even 30V across it is going to dissipate anywhere near 1/2 watt. You can use whatever wattage resistor here.
Last edited by fuzzbass on Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by zaxby » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:58 pm

I eagerly purchased everything for the near-final BOM (v1.2) and did a manual changelog. I thought I would post it here in case anyone was in the same boat as it was a little time consuming! Can't guarantee 100% accuracy, I suppose, but it should be pretty close!

New stuff:
+4 C0805C104J5RACTU 0.1 uF caps (notes suggested this anyway)
+2 RDE5C1H222J0M1H3A 2200pF 50Vdc 5% 5mm caps (ALL 3 TDK 2200pF 2.5mm caps removed)
+1 40pin single row pin header strip A-197
Various screw/hardware changes I didn't document
+1 680R Resistor
22awg stranded wire -> 24awg

And the things that were removed:
-1 1uF 50V 5x11 cap (and the brand was changed)
-3 FK18X7R1H222K 2200pF 2.5mm caps
-1 LM301AN
-1 1M resistor
-2 100K resistors
-1 220R resistor
-1 2N3904TF transistor

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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:14 pm

zaxby wrote:I eagerly purchased everything for the near-final BOM (v1.2) and did a manual changelog. I thought I would post it here in case anyone was in the same boat as it was a little time consuming! Can't guarantee 100% accuracy, I suppose, but it should be pretty close!

New stuff:
+4 C0805C104J5RACTU 0.1 uF caps (notes suggested this anyway)
+2 RDE5C1H222J0M1H3A 2200pF 50Vdc 5% 5mm caps (ALL 3 TDK 2200pF 2.5mm caps removed)
+1 40pin single row pin header strip A-197
Various screw/hardware changes I didn't document
+1 680R Resistor
22awg stranded wire -> 24awg

And the things that were removed:
-1 1uF 50V 5x11 cap (and the brand was changed)
-3 FK18X7R1H222K 2200pF 2.5mm caps
-1 LM301AN
-1 1M resistor
-2 100K resistors
-1 220R resistor
-1 2N3904TF transistor
Here is the change log I submitted to Synthcube - I don't know if these are all the changes they received. These are changes from v1.2 of the BOM.

Most importantly: Hook up wire should be 22AWG, not 24. The IDC connectors on the molex housings are made for 22AWG.

CAP C0805C104J5RACTU Kemet MLCC - SMD/SMT 50volts 0.1uF X7R 5% 100nF 0.1 uF 2 6 FOR 4027 PCBS Line 14 0805
1. Correct quantity is 6
CAP UPM1H010MDD1TD Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 1uF 50V 105c 5x11 Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 1uF 50V 105c 5x11 Mouser 647-UPM1H010MDD1TD 1 uF 32 ALT RFS-50V010MF3#5
1. Part is EOL
2. Alternate Listed exceeds footprint of 5mm.
3. Correct quantity is 31

CAP EEA-GA1H100H Panasonic Aluminum Electrolytic Caps - Leaded Al Lytic Cap 105C Radial GA Series Aluminum Electrolytic Caps - Leaded Al Lytic Cap 105C Radial GA Series Mouser 667-EEA-GA1H100H 10 uF 21 6 FOR 4027 PCBS 4 FOR FILTER/PWR BOM
1. Exceeds footprint of 5mm

CAP FK18X7R1H222K TDK Multilayer Ceramic Cap 2200pf Mouser 810-FK18X7R1H222K 2200 pF 3 For locations marked 2n
CAP RDE5C1H222J0M1H3A Murata MLCC - Leaded 2200pF 50Vdc C0G 5% MLCC - Leaded 2200pF 50Vdc C0G 5% Mouser 81-RDE5C1H222J0M1H3A 2200 pF 1
1. Duplication. Line 20 removed, qty line 28 adjusted

HDR 929836-09-03-RK 3M HWH 06P PIN STRIP HEADER STRAIGHT TIN 2ROW HDR929836-09-03-RK Mouser 517-929836-09-03-RK 6 pin 13
1. Not needed - line eliminated

HDR 3-640428-3 TE Connectivity CLOSED W/O TABS 3P L.R. red 22 AWG MTA .156 HDR3-640428-3 Mouser 571-3-640428-3 3 pin 1
HDR 640445-3 TE Connectivity FRCTN LK HDR STR 3P Square post tin MTA .156 HDR640445-3 Mouser 571-6404453 3 pin 1
1. Not needed - lines 34 and 39 eliminated

HDR A-197 GTK 40 PIN SINGLE ROW PIN HEADER STRIP HDRA-197 Tayda A-197 40 pin 1
1. Two sticks are needed - qty adjusted

HDW 91290A110 McMaster-Carr M3 x .5 x 5mm Socket Head Cap Screws A2 Stainless Black Oxide HDW91290A110 McMaster-Carr MSCS3005BLK-10C6 1 each 13
1. Total number of panel visible screws is 17 when case is considered

HDW 336514 Fastener Express #4 Flat Washer Nylon HDW336514 Fastener Express #4 Nylon Washer 1 each 8 REVERB MOUNTING
HDW FE-M3-.5-6PAN-BLK Fastener Express M3 X .5 X 6mm Pan Black Oxide Panel Screws HDWFE-M3-.5-6PAN-BLK Fastener Express FE-M3-.5-6PAN-BLK 1 each 8 3 FOR PWR PCB
HDW MHNZ3-7H4 Fastener Express M3 x .5mm Hex Nuts Steel Zinc HDWMHNZ3-7H4 Fastener Express MHNZ3-7H4 1 each 7 REVERB MOUNTING+3 FOR PWR PCB
HDW 258568 Fastener Superstore M3 X .5 X 6mm Pan Zinc Screws HDW258568 Fastener Superstore MMSPHPZ3006-515 1 each 5
HDW MMSPHPZ3010-5K3 Fastener Express M3 x .5 x 10mm Pan Phillips Machine Screws Zinc Plate HDWMMSPHPZ3010-5K3 Fastener Express MMSPHPZ3010-5K3 1 each 12 4 FOR REVERB MOUNTING
1. Correct screws for reverb mount are M4, and should be 12mm, black
2. Correct quantity of M3 hex nuts is 20
3. Correct number of zinc plated M3 screws is 12
4. Corrected quantities include hardware to mount Gate Booster

IC LM301AN/NOPB Texas Instruments LM301AN Operational Amplifiers - Op Amps OP Amp LM301AN Operational Amplifiers - Op Amps OP Amp Mouser 926-LM301AN/NOPB 1 each 34 OR LM101 LM201
1. Quantity corrected to 33

RES 271-1.0M-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistor 1.0Mohm 1% Metal Film Resistor 1.0Mohm 1% Mouser 271-1.0M/REEL-RC 1 mOhm 7
1. Quantity corrected to 6

RES 271-220-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistor 220ohm 1% Metal Film Resistor 220ohm 1% Mouser 271-220/REEL-RC 220 Ohm 26 9 FOR FILTER/PWR BOM. 3 FOR OSC BDS
RES 271-680-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistor 680ohm 1% Metal Film Resistor 680ohm 1% Mouser 271-680/REEL-RC 680 Ohm 3
1. LED-R17 changed from 220R to 680R. Quantities adjusted

RES 271-100K-RC Xicon Metal Film Resistor 100Kohm 1% Metal Film Resistor 100Kohm 1% Mouser 271-100K/REEL-RC 100 kOhm 62 4 FOR FILTER/PWR BOM 3 FOR OSC BDS
1. Quantity corrected to 60

TRN 2N3904TF Central Semiconductor 2N3904 NPN Transistor TRN2N3904 Mouser 512-2N3904TF 3 each 30 3 FOR OSC BDS 1 FOR FILTER/PWR BOM
1. Quantity corrected to 29

WIR 22AWG Stranded Empire Wire 22AWG Stranded Hookup Wire 1 foot 22AWG Stranded Hookup Wire 1 foot Empire Wire 22AWG Stranded 1 foot 5
1. Quantity increased to 10 feet
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Post by zaxby » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:55 pm

fuzzbass wrote:Here is the change log I submitted to Synthcube - I don't know if these are all the changes they received. These are changes from v1.2 of the BOM.
Thanks for this! In fact I was just going through and double checking my subbed cap values thanks to your previous post but this makes it even easier. It looks mostly similar to what I discovered, but with context which is always helpful.
fuzzbass wrote:You folks are valiant for setting up mouser carts for this, but I warn you it might be a fool's errand.
It is true that a lot of stuff required digging, while I found the bulk of the BOM on mouser, I had to order from 5-6 other stores to find everything. But it's part of the fun :hihi:
fuzzbass wrote:Most importantly: Hook up wire should be 22AWG, not 24. The IDC connectors on the molex housings are made for 22AWG.
This does seem extra important considering it was just updated from 22 to 24AWG in the final BOM.

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Slide potentiometer

Post by funzel » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:21 am

Everybody thanks a lot for the information. I am patiently waiting for my PCB/panel. Looking at the components it seems that all slide potentiometers are all out of stock. Lead time at Mouser is around 25 weeks. Anybody have a alternative source for these?

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Re: Slide potentiometer

Post by fuzzbass » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:14 am

funzel wrote:Everybody thanks a lot for the information. I am patiently waiting for my PCB/panel. Looking at the components it seems that all slide potentiometers are all out of stock. Lead time at Mouser is around 25 weeks. Anybody have a alternative source for these?
Consider buying them from Synthcube, or just order them from Mouser and wait. My past experience with backorders of these same parts with Mouser was that the parts showed up well in advance of the projected time. My guess is that if a significant quantity racks up in backorder, their supply chain reacts to that. YMMV.
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Post by cereyanlimusiki » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:47 am

@Syntcube can I still pre order 1601 SEQUENCER DIY V5 full kit ? or am I late to the game :(

Thanks

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