[AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:31 pm

New V4 Bug: Signal traces transiting under some jacks can become shorted to the jack’s ground connection via the jack enclosure. This problem affects 19 of the jacks. A further explanation, the locations of these jacks, and suggested fixes are in the new version of the build guide I posted today.

If you have not yet completed your build, check out the updated guide. If you have completed your build and it is working fine, I don't recommend you disassemble to retrofit this. If you have completed your build but are getting intermittent behavior when you contact the panel, controls or jacks, this may be why.
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Re: PSU problem

Post by ittisottis » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:42 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:26 pm
ittisottis wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:31 am
Hi, when I did a power-up check, I measured +- 16.75 volts on the pins marked +.15 volts (it is marked 15 V although I should measure app. 12.75 V according to the build guide). I think everything is OK with the components, I double checked polarity etc. What should be the problem?
Probably fine, but I usually get ~15.75 (+/-). This powers the LEDs and the SMD regulators, both should tolerate 16.75.
Thank you, great news :hyper: ! I measured the V+/V- pins and I found +12.75 and -14.62. I adjusted the top trimmer to 12 V but I could adjust the bottom trimmer to -13.23 V only. Is it probably fine also?

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by ittisottis » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:21 pm

OH, I see in this new build guide that I should measure +15/-15 at the V pins, great, that works :)

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by nickbtx » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:04 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:31 pm
New V4 Bug: Signal traces transiting under some jacks can become shorted to the jack’s ground connection via the jack enclosure. This problem affects 19 of the jacks.
Before adding the front panel and Shapers Mod to my TTSH I ran through the calibration steps and everything looked good. I then added the front panel, Shapers Mod, and buttoned it all up. After powering it up everything seemed okay until I went to pick up the assembly and the audio dropped out intermittently. I could tap the panel just about anywhere and cause it to happen. I flipped it over and could tap around the middle of the board and cause it, especially around the Shapers Mod board. So I removed the two screws holding the mod board and the audio stopped dropping out. I reinstalled the screws and it still seemed okay. I tapped around the board and could not cause the problem again, nor have I had any issues since. I've got a sneaky feeling that somewhere on the board, one of the 19 jacks prone to cause trouble is hovering about .0001" over a trace just waiting to cause trouble again. I suspect that when I loosened the two screws that held the Shapers Mod board it relaxed a little tension/stress somewhere and allowed the jack to lift far enough away from the trace. I guess time will tell. I sure don't want to uninstall 19 jacks, but I guess I will if I need to. Thanks for the heads up, Fuzzbass.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by Jim the Oldbie » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:13 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:31 pm
New V4 Bug: Signal traces transiting under some jacks can become shorted to the jack’s ground connection via the jack enclosure. This problem affects 19 of the jacks. A further explanation, the locations of these jacks, and suggested fixes are in the new version of the build guide I posted today...
Huge thanks again Fuzzbass for compiling & maintaining all this useful info.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by recompas » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:36 am

Got my v4 finished up today and started calibration. I got mine recently from a friend about 80% built and finished the rest. Everything calibrates and works except for the filter(s). Seeing some weird behavior with both. On the 4012 the signal passes without filtering and the frequency controls do nothing. Turning up the resonance will lower the volume slightly. The 4072 passes no signal and has the output stuck at about -10.3v unless the trimmer on the board is all the way to one side, in which case it swings to +12ish. The controls seem to do nothing for the 4072. In both cases it seems the cv summing point is getting dragged down but I can't see where or why. I went over all the connections on both the sub-boards and the filter area of the main board. The casings of the jacks seem well clear of the traces that might be interfered with. Kind of not sure where to look next. I did match the transistors for the 4012 though they aren't currently thermally coupled. The pnp/npn pair I did not match HFE-wise and I'm thinking swapping those might be the next place. Any guidance or help much appreciated.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:54 am

recompas wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:36 am
Got my v4 finished up today and started calibration. I got mine recently from a friend about 80% built and finished the rest. Everything calibrates and works except for the filter(s). Seeing some weird behavior with both. On the 4012 the signal passes without filtering and the frequency controls do nothing. Turning up the resonance will lower the volume slightly. The 4072 passes no signal and has the output stuck at about -10.3v unless the trimmer on the board is all the way to one side, in which case it swings to +12ish. The controls seem to do nothing for the 4072. In both cases it seems the cv summing point is getting dragged down but I can't see where or why. I went over all the connections on both the sub-boards and the filter area of the main board. The casings of the jacks seem well clear of the traces that might be interfered with. Kind of not sure where to look next. I did match the transistors for the 4012 though they aren't currently thermally coupled. The pnp/npn pair I did not match HFE-wise and I'm thinking swapping those might be the next place. Any guidance or help much appreciated.
Post a good quality photo of the 4012. Did you get mixed up and put the matched PNPs on the 4012, and the NPNs on the 4072?
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by recompas » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am

I triple checked all the transistors on both boards and they are the correct parts. Here's some board pics.
IMG_9848.JPG
IMG_9847.JPG
IMG_9846.JPG
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:45 am

nickbtx wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:04 pm
fuzzbass wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:31 pm
New V4 Bug: Signal traces transiting under some jacks can become shorted to the jack’s ground connection via the jack enclosure. This problem affects 19 of the jacks.
Before adding the front panel and Shapers Mod to my TTSH I ran through the calibration steps and everything looked good. I then added the front panel, Shapers Mod, and buttoned it all up. After powering it up everything seemed okay until I went to pick up the assembly and the audio dropped out intermittently. I could tap the panel just about anywhere and cause it to happen. I flipped it over and could tap around the middle of the board and cause it, especially around the Shapers Mod board. So I removed the two screws holding the mod board and the audio stopped dropping out. I reinstalled the screws and it still seemed okay. I tapped around the board and could not cause the problem again, nor have I had any issues since. I've got a sneaky feeling that somewhere on the board, one of the 19 jacks prone to cause trouble is hovering about .0001" over a trace just waiting to cause trouble again. I suspect that when I loosened the two screws that held the Shapers Mod board it relaxed a little tension/stress somewhere and allowed the jack to lift far enough away from the trace. I guess time will tell. I sure don't want to uninstall 19 jacks, but I guess I will if I need to. Thanks for the heads up, Fuzzbass.
How I would handle this case: Take the panel off and see if you can recreate the problem by applying downward pressure on 18 of the listed jack locations, under power.

Don't do this push down test on the "Right Input" jack, the one above the Reverb sliders. You could easily smoke one of the slider LEDs. While you have the panel off (and the power off!), you should be able to bend the base of this jack away from the signal trace using fine tip pliers. It runs under two points on the right edge of the footprint. Just bend both of those feet up away from the board.

If you isolate your dropouts to one or more other jacks, evaluate whether you have clearance to get your pliers in there, or have to remove the jack to fix it. Order some extra jacks - these are very easy to damage when you attempt to remove them.
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by recompas » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:18 pm

recompas wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:26 am
I triple checked all the transistors on both boards and they are the correct parts. Here's some board pics.

IMG_9848.JPG

IMG_9847.JPG

IMG_9846.JPG
Well an update - hopefully this will help others. The differential pair in the 4012 was bad. Either i messed them up when i soldered them in to get them close to each other or their gain characteristics were too far off. Put in a pair closely matched by HFE and i'm in business. Hoping that is the same deal with the 4072.

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PSU problem

Post by ittisottis » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:20 am

Dear Members, I started the power-check and I measured +13.75 volts on V+ pin on the PSU sub-board (all the others were fine). I can't achieve higher volts while adjusting the trimmer. What could be the problem? Please help!

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Re: PSU problem

Post by fuzzbass » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:47 am

ittisottis wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:20 am
Dear Members, I started the power-check and I measured +13.75 volts on V+ pin on the PSU sub-board (all the others were fine). I can't achieve higher volts while adjusting the trimmer. What could be the problem? Please help!
Disconnect the main board. You should see ~ +15.75 volts on the +15.00 pin of the PSU. If you do, check all resistor values on the + side of the PSU board (incl the trimmer) - probably an error in there.
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TTSH and 1601 in shared case

Post by nicholasgreen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:03 am

Just finished building and calibrating my TTSH! It went surprisingly well, with only a few bugs to work out in the end. Main issue was I started trusting the value printed on the Synthcube parts bags about half way through the build. Ended up with 3k3 resistors where 3m3 should have been. Don't do that!

I wanted to run something by everybody here before I get myself into trouble. I'm considering building a case that will house my TTSH and 1601 sequencer, ideally sharing power and CV/gate bus. Can anyone give me reason not to? My first thought was that I will need to replace my wall wart with a higher current version (maybe 3 amp?). Then I would install a couple switches that would normalize the sequencer's CV/gate jacks to the TTSH bus.

Would love some feedback before I go too deep down that rabbit hole though!

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by sduck » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:25 am

No reason not to - I've seen it done - except for the size and cumbersomeness of it.
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Re: PSU problem

Post by ittisottis » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am

fuzzbass wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:47 am
ittisottis wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:20 am
Dear Members, I started the power-check and I measured +13.75 volts on V+ pin on the PSU sub-board (all the others were fine). I can't achieve higher volts while adjusting the trimmer. What could be the problem? Please help!
Disconnect the main board. You should see ~ +15.75 volts on the +15.00 pin of the PSU. If you do, check all resistor values on the + side of the PSU board (incl the trimmer) - probably an error in there.
Thank you.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by nicholasgreen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:55 pm

sduck wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:25 am
No reason not to - I've seen it done - except for the size and cumbersomeness of it.
Thanks for the input! It will be stationary most of it's life, so I think size should be ok.

Am I on the right track by just swapping out the 1.5A Triad wall wart for a 3A equivalent? I was planning on wiring the barrel jack to both the 1601 and TTSH PSU input. No electrical concerns with that right? I'm not an electrical engineer, so I get a little paranoid about unforeseen technical problems due to some obscure science that I'm oblivious to haha

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Re: TTSH and 1601 in shared case

Post by KSS » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:38 pm

nicholasgreen wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:03 am
I'm considering building a case that will house my TTSH and 1601 sequencer, ideally sharing power and CV/gate bus. Can anyone give me reason not to?
Related to cumbersome-ness is the ability to change the angle -and position- of operation for the sequencer, compared to the synth. And that your feelings about this can change over time with use. Or with future purchased additional equipment you don't have now, and which may not be invented yet.

You're setting up a fixed positional relationship between them which you may or may not regret later after using them awhile. Against the only perceived benefit being shared power?

As sduck says, it's been done. I wouldn't.
Last edited by KSS on Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TTSH and 1601 in shared case

Post by nicholasgreen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:46 pm

KSS wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:38 pm
nicholasgreen wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:03 am
I'm considering building a case that will house my TTSH and 1601 sequencer, ideally sharing power and CV/gate bus. Can anyone give me reason not to?
Related to cumbersome-ness is the ability to change the angle -and position- of operation for the sequencer, compared to the synth. And that your feelings about this can change over time with use. Or with future purchased additional equipment you don't havev now, and which may not be invented yet.

You're setting up a fixed positional relationship between them which you may or nay not regret later after using them awhile. Against the only perceived benefit being shared power?

As sduck says, it's been done. I wouldn't.
This is exactly what I was hoping for! Pretty sure you guys have convinced me. I don't really see much of a benefit either. Thank you!

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by KSS » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:10 pm

In fairness, it bears saying that integrating multiple units into one can be a good choice. Look at Geddy Lee's touring rig, or NoddysPuncture, both with their built-in minimoogs. Along with many other examples in touring bands.

But the key here is that these consolidations were done after the players had reached a sweet spot in understanding and use of their instruments.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:19 pm

Sorry for the thread highjack, this is a question regarding v3 but likely applies to v4 also. I finally have a working 4012 filter after Patrick sent me a V4 version! I am pretty convinced there was something wrong with my v3 pcb. Maybe a manufacturing error? :despair:

Anyway on to my question. While I was recalibrating the synth I noticed that my vpp across all the oscillators was a bit high at the sawtooth and square. They are all outputting similar numbers, I have attached a scope pic of osc 1. If you notice my vmax is around 10V which seems right but I am getting almost -2v at vmin. Is this just a dc offset issue? Bad part?

I am not getting any shorts across the rails and all the oscillators are giving similar numbers. Anyone run into this before? Any ideas where to look? Is it ok to just run it like this?
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Fri May 01, 2020 12:54 pm

amir wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:19 pm
Sorry for the thread highjack, this is a question regarding v3 but likely applies to v4 also. I finally have a working 4012 filter after Patrick sent me a V4 version! I am pretty convinced there was something wrong with my v3 pcb. Maybe a manufacturing error? :despair:

Anyway on to my question. While I was recalibrating the synth I noticed that my vpp across all the oscillators was a bit high at the sawtooth and square. They are all outputting similar numbers, I have attached a scope pic of osc 1. If you notice my vmax is around 10V which seems right but I am getting almost -2v at vmin. Is this just a dc offset issue? Bad part?

I am not getting any shorts across the rails and all the oscillators are giving similar numbers. Anyone run into this before? Any ideas where to look? Is it ok to just run it like this?
I don't know what is going on, but this is not normal. They are never going to have a perfect +5V offset, but two volts is a huge error. Are you sure both rails V+ and V- are 15.00?
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Fri May 01, 2020 5:13 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:54 pm
I don't know what is going on, but this is not normal. They are never going to have a perfect +5V offset, but two volts is a huge error. Are you sure both rails V+ and V- are 15.00?
Yes they are exactly at -15v and 15v. The led rails are also at -15.50 and 15.50v. I am running the altitude linear power supply (version he had when v3 was made).

Do you think it might be the opamps or should be looking at the sub boards? The sine and triangle are perfect once trimmed at 10vpp. I think either my pcbs were cursed or the rare parts kit I got from thonk had a ton of bad parts in it.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Sat May 02, 2020 7:53 am

amir wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:13 pm
fuzzbass wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:54 pm
I don't know what is going on, but this is not normal. They are never going to have a perfect +5V offset, but two volts is a huge error. Are you sure both rails V+ and V- are 15.00?
Yes they are exactly at -15v and 15v. The led rails are also at -15.50 and 15.50v. I am running the altitude linear power supply (version he had when v3 was made).

Do you think it might be the opamps or should be looking at the sub boards? The sine and triangle are perfect once trimmed at 10vpp. I think either my pcbs were cursed or the rare parts kit I got from thonk had a ton of bad parts in it.
I doubt its any of these: bad op amps, bad pcbs, bad parts from known good supplier Thonk. The tri and sine are derived from the saw. If those are good, makes me think your saw and pulse are fine. Maybe your oscilloscope is the problem?
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Sat May 02, 2020 10:53 am

fuzzbass wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:53 am
I doubt its any of these: bad op amps, bad pcbs, bad parts from known good supplier Thonk. The tri and sine are derived from the saw. If those are good, makes me think your saw and pulse are fine. Maybe your oscilloscope is the problem?

I don’t think it’s the scope because I am running custom firmware on it and have calibrated the scope using a 5 digit multimeter. I also tested a few other modular oscillators I’ve built like braids and they all checked out.

I’ll try to get another scope and test it but doubt this is the problem.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am

I wanted to post pictures of each shape from a single oscillator but after turning it on again, I couldn’t get the pulse width of osc2 to stabilize at all. It was jumping all over the place until I switched it into lfo mode. I attached images. This doesn’t seem to be a scope issue, something is either bleeding into the oscillators because they all behave the same or a bad part.
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