[AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

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ultravox
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by ultravox » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:13 pm

amir wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:59 pm
ultravox wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:11 am
amir wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:10 pm
Does anyone have the Gerber files for the 4027-1 osc boards still? They are no longer on oshpark.
Hi amir,

I created those VCO files (and designed a front panel) so I could build a TTSH from scratch after Jon sent me an extra mainboard. I shared them freely with everyone but it didn't feel right considering all the hard work Jon put into designing the TTSH... so I removed them from oshpark.

If Jon or any of the new designers say it's ok then I'll re-post the 4027-1 files.

Thanks! If you’re in Atlanta still and have any extras left, maybe we can meet and I’ll buy them off you! Trying to order some of the parts I need right now, but haven’t been able to get in touch with synthcube to order some tempcos and their checkout is not letting me pick a shipping method. Only gives an option for in store pickup at the last step. Still waiting on an order from 3 months ago as well that was missing in the package they sent even though their website said it was in stock at the time I ordered.

If I can’t get extra boards I’ll just unsolder these but worried that I’ll waste a ton of rare parts and the osc boards are not even the issue.
We can work something out.
This means nothing to me... Oh, Vienna!

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by dBVelocity » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:36 pm

Modular Addict supplies the tempco's needed as well.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:12 pm

ultravox wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:13 pm
amir wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:59 pm
ultravox wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:11 am
amir wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:10 pm
Does anyone have the Gerber files for the 4027-1 osc boards still? They are no longer on oshpark.
Hi amir,

I created those VCO files (and designed a front panel) so I could build a TTSH from scratch after Jon sent me an extra mainboard. I shared them freely with everyone but it didn't feel right considering all the hard work Jon put into designing the TTSH... so I removed them from oshpark.

If Jon or any of the new designers say it's ok then I'll re-post the 4027-1 files.

Thanks! If you’re in Atlanta still and have any extras left, maybe we can meet and I’ll buy them off you! Trying to order some of the parts I need right now, but haven’t been able to get in touch with synthcube to order some tempcos and their checkout is not letting me pick a shipping method. Only gives an option for in store pickup at the last step. Still waiting on an order from 3 months ago as well that was missing in the package they sent even though their website said it was in stock at the time I ordered.

If I can’t get extra boards I’ll just unsolder these but worried that I’ll waste a ton of rare parts and the osc boards are not even the issue.
We can work something out.
Awesome, I’ll send you a message soon! Thanks!

Dbvelocity- thanks! That’s where I usually order stuff but needed to order a mult that they don’t carry and thought I get all of it at the same place.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by zarar » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:46 am

Testing out my REV4 psu board. +-15V working fine, also -V. But I’m getting 0V on +V. Anyone recognizing this? I reflowed the pins for the 1963A but still nothing.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:38 am

zarar wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:46 am
Testing out my REV4 psu board. +-15V working fine, also -V. But I’m getting 0V on +V. Anyone recognizing this? I reflowed the pins for the 1963A but still nothing.
With DC converters or linear supply? Check your ground connections. Make sure there are no bridges on -15v regulator. Also make sure your caps are not reversed. Don't over heat the regulators too much either.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by zarar » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:52 am

amir wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:38 am
zarar wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:46 am
Testing out my REV4 psu board. +-15V working fine, also -V. But I’m getting 0V on +V. Anyone recognizing this? I reflowed the pins for the 1963A but still nothing.
With DC converters or linear supply? Check your ground connections. Make sure there are no bridges on -15v regulator. Also make sure your caps are not reversed. Don't over heat the regulators too much either.
I’m using the murata DC converters. I’ll double check, maybe it’s the 1963A not connected to the big pad enough?

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by amir » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:31 pm

zarar wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:52 am
amir wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:38 am
zarar wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:46 am
Testing out my REV4 psu board. +-15V working fine, also -V. But I’m getting 0V on +V. Anyone recognizing this? I reflowed the pins for the 1963A but still nothing.
With DC converters or linear supply? Check your ground connections. Make sure there are no bridges on -15v regulator. Also make sure your caps are not reversed. Don't over heat the regulators too much either.
I’m using the murata DC converters. I’ll double check, maybe it’s the 1963A not connected to the big pad enough?

I use a linear supply so my connections are a bit different but the schematics for the power board are very simple. Just follow the connection back and see where it stops responding. If one joint is not soldered correctly it can easily either turn off a regulator or cross feed signals causing a short.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by bardx86 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:42 pm

zarar wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:52 am
amir wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:38 am
zarar wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:46 am
Testing out my REV4 psu board. +-15V working fine, also -V. But I’m getting 0V on +V. Anyone recognizing this? I reflowed the pins for the 1963A but still nothing.
With DC converters or linear supply? Check your ground connections. Make sure there are no bridges on -15v regulator. Also make sure your caps are not reversed. Don't over heat the regulators too much either.
I’m using the murata DC converters. I’ll double check, maybe it’s the 1963A not connected to the big pad enough?
Check for power at the 1963A. I wasn't getting power there. I had to reflow the DC/DC converters.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by ZatsuOn » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:51 pm

I am building a v3 "kit" that I purchased from a fellow MuffWiggler -- going slow and trying to make any mistakes... I'm at the stage of putting in the transistors and have been reading all the discussions of how to solder them without damage. I decided to save myself the grief and make sockets for the 2N3985 / 2N3954 and 2n4394. It was pretty fiddly getting them to fit right, but I'm pleased with the results:
2N3458 Socket.jpg
The plastic bit is printed on Lulzbot Mini with the small layer tool head and set to "ultra-high detail." Super slow -- the thing is only 7mm across and 3.6mm high but takes 30 min to print! But the results are pretty good for such a tiny part. The pins are out of an IC socket and the holes had to be pitch at an angle to prevent them from making contact with each other at the top.
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KSS
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by KSS » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:51 pm

Nice!

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:20 pm

Wheelbreak wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:14 am
My multimeter has a setting to check diodes and the readings across all of them in that section are the same. I have checked that the orientation of them all is correct

I went over what you wrote and looked again at the schematic then tested everything again.
I just hooked everything up and
-MF in SH gate jack fires both envelopes
-MF in gate jack is just firing the AR envelope
-MF in trigger jack fires nothing
-MF in gate and trigger jacks fires both

I guess that means it is working correctly. I feel like a moron. Having the two envelopes fire independently with the "and logic" on the adsr was not something I expected. Thinking about it now could provide some interesting patch ideas.

I just have to figure out what I did wrong on the gate booster now. Thanks for walking me through that.

what I meant by protecting the jacks is protecting them from voltage going the wrong way.
Sorry been away for a bit...
How did you install your booster, as described in the build manual?

What does the gate signal coming from your Microfreak look like on the scope?

Before looking further at your TTSH, check the operation of your Gate Booster while its outputs are isolated. If you are seeing the LED on the Booster flash, that means the gate is being generated by the first stage of the TL072. The output is buffered by Q1, coming off the emitter, and available from R7 (1K). You should see this at around +10V on your scope. Trigger is generated from the Gate signal coming off the first stage of the TL072. The trigger signal is buffered by Q3, coming off the emitter and via R15(1K). In order to see the triggers use one shot mode on the scope, or rapidly generate gates. Triggers are only about 1ms in duration. On my old analog scope I turn up intensity and generate rapid gates to see them whiz by.

"-MF in trigger jack fires nothing" is normal behavior. In the standard install for gate booster, there should never be any reason for inputting a trigger to the Trigger jack. The Gate Booster makes a trigger from the gate and supplies it to the ADSR. The Trigger jack is wired to output the trigger coming from the Booster.

If the Booster checks out in isolation, reconnect it. Connect your MF gate only to the gate jack (S&H Gate switch up). To test the ADSR, raise only the Sustain control. In this mode it will behave the same as the AR. If notes are sustained across key presses, gate is coming into the ADSR. Now set the ADSR thus: A:0, D:5, S:2, R:5. Rapid key presses should produce new, distinct notes in the ADSR (not notes smeared together). If this works, then the ADSR is getting both gate and trigger from the Booster.

The AR is a simpler matter, all sliders down. Notes should sustain across key presses. If they do, the AR is getting gate from the Booster (it does not process trigger).

If the ADSR works but the AR does not, the problem is in the AR.
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:26 pm

ZatsuOn wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:51 pm
I am building a v3 "kit" that I purchased from a fellow MuffWiggler -- going slow and trying to make any mistakes... I'm at the stage of putting in the transistors and have been reading all the discussions of how to solder them without damage. I decided to save myself the grief and make sockets for the 2N3985 / 2N3954 and 2n4394. It was pretty fiddly getting them to fit right, but I'm pleased with the results:

2N3458 Socket.jpg

The plastic bit is printed on Lulzbot Mini with the small layer tool head and set to "ultra-high detail." Super slow -- the thing is only 7mm across and 3.6mm high but takes 30 min to print! But the results are pretty good for such a tiny part. The pins are out of an IC socket and the holes had to be pitch at an angle to prevent them from making contact with each other at the top.
This looks really nice, and I'm sure it was fun doing it.

But its much easier to just use some care when you solder in JFETs. Set iron for 600f/315c, do 1 pin, work quickly - if solder does not flow immediately, back off. Wait 20-30 seconds, then the next. Another tip is to not cut the legs before you solder. The extra mass provides a bit of heat sink. I have installed oodles of 2n3958s, 2n2954s, 2n4392, etc. Never burned one of them. Use the same level of care when soldering in anything matched or thermally coupled. In my build process, I stuff all the transistors at once, flip and solder. Going one section at a time, I solder the first (or first and fourth) pin of everything, then return to do the second pin, etc...
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by KSS » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:37 pm

Clip on heatsinks for soldering used to be common. Aluminum pincer or hemostat-ish. Clipped on a lead between the component body and PCB, it sunk the heat moving up the lead to keep the body silicon cooler. Not sure why it's not as well known or used today?

Hemostats, alligator clips, and the like can also be used, but the aluminum type made for the job -did and does a better job. With alternate devices like hemostats and alligators, you need to take care you're not nicking-damaging the lead.

Using anything like this cliped directly to a single lead, static charges need to be accounted for and dissipated.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by dBVelocity » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:43 pm

I have a post over here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=233414
It's a track using all TTSH sounds and the process of creating it. Song starts at 10:47 thank you all :sb:

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:45 am

amir wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:15 pm
Also, I noticed in the manual that it states the noise output should be 10vpp max. I am getting 20vpp there as well. I tried searching to see if this was normal on the ttsh with the transistor swap in that section but couldn’t find a solid answer.
Noise should be 20V p-p at output of 4022 submodule. Pin 5, which is the junction of C3 (3300pF) ,R5 (1k5) and R6 (3k9). See also the new thread I'm about to create in the DIY section called TTSH Noise Mistake?

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by thecivildefense » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:59 am

SYNC Question: My osc 2 is fine and soft-sync free, but osc3 gets some soft sync, and I can hear it change shifting the cables around. While osc2 is not affected by the sync switch for osc3, i get worse soft sync on osc 3 when osc 2 switch is engaged. I think I can basically get it to stop by cable tying the cables for osc3 to certain positions, but I'd rather just do it right.

Anyone have tips for avoiding soft sync? I'm using VCO1 as master and slaving the other two to it. I'm using shielded console cable for wiring, with the shield tied to the VCO end, but not to the sync card end. Does the soft sync come most from the VCO wiring or the switch wiring? Any other things to try?

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by fuzzbass » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:14 pm

thecivildefense wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:59 am
SYNC Question: My osc 2 is fine and soft-sync free, but osc3 gets some soft sync, and I can hear it change shifting the cables around. While osc2 is not affected by the sync switch for osc3, i get worse soft sync on osc 3 when osc 2 switch is engaged. I think I can basically get it to stop by cable tying the cables for osc3 to certain positions, but I'd rather just do it right.

Anyone have tips for avoiding soft sync? I'm using VCO1 as master and slaving the other two to it. I'm using shielded console cable for wiring, with the shield tied to the VCO end, but not to the sync card end. Does the soft sync come most from the VCO wiring or the switch wiring? Any other things to try?
If you make the soft sync go away by restricting the path of the VCO3 cable, why not do that? There is nothing wrong with that approach. Regarding whether it bleeds in from the switch wiring - not sure what to tell you. I don't use shielded cable for the switches, I keep their runs short, 3-4 inches, and I don't twist them.

Is your 0V rail bonded to Earth? I find without that, wire shields don't work very well, esp. the reverb return.
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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by thecivildefense » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:57 pm

fuzzbass wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:14 pm

If you make the soft sync go away by restricting the path of the VCO3 cable, why not do that? There is nothing wrong with that approach. Regarding whether it bleeds in from the switch wiring - not sure what to tell you. I don't use shielded cable for the switches, I keep their runs short, 3-4 inches, and I don't twist them.

Is your 0V rail bonded to Earth? I find without that, wire shields don't work very well, esp. the reverb return.
I'm not bonded to earth at this point. I'm using the wall wart and didn't do the earth mod you suggested yet since I was planning to eventually just add a linear supply. I'll do some experimenting with how I connected the shields and routed the wiring. Nothing I did with sync is twisted or even running parallel, and each connection has its own cable (not using the multiple wires in the console cable for different signals), although I did run some of the wiring between the panel and board close to each other...can reroute those totally separately and I'm sure that won't hurt. Thanks for the help!

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by Kfm » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 pm

I'm realizing I have faders in the wrong places. What's the best way to get these suckers off after they have already been put on? I've got an ss02 sucker and some wick but neither are actually getting the solder completely

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by resynthesize » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:42 pm

Kfm wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 pm
I'm realizing I have faders in the wrong places. What's the best way to get these suckers off after they have already been put on? I've got an ss02 sucker and some wick but neither are actually getting the solder completely
A hakko fr-301 will make short work of that job, if you can find one to borrow. if not, it's an expensive purchase but is a fantastic tool to have for these types of scenarios.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by Kfm » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:48 pm

I'm half tempted to just cut them off so I can get different color faders honestly hahaha

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by Kfm » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:54 pm

resynthesize wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:42 pm
Kfm wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 pm
I'm realizing I have faders in the wrong places. What's the best way to get these suckers off after they have already been put on? I've got an ss02 sucker and some wick but neither are actually getting the solder completely
A hakko fr-301 will make short work of that job, if you can find one to borrow. if not, it's an expensive purchase but is a fantastic tool to have for these types of scenarios.
That thing is insanely cool as it is! Thank you for the suggestion. Picking one up now!

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by thecivildefense » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:27 pm

Kfm wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:54 pm
resynthesize wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:42 pm
Kfm wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 pm
I'm realizing I have faders in the wrong places. What's the best way to get these suckers off after they have already been put on? I've got an ss02 sucker and some wick but neither are actually getting the solder completely
A hakko fr-301 will make short work of that job, if you can find one to borrow. if not, it's an expensive purchase but is a fantastic tool to have for these types of scenarios.
That thing is insanely cool as it is! Thank you for the suggestion. Picking one up now!
I've been using the hakko 808 (older version) for about a decade. On my second one now, but even if it seems expensive probably the best purchase I've made for electronics. Don't know how I'd survive owning a console with 8-pole switches without it.

However, these boards on the ttsh have very close tolerance holes for the legs of components and they honestly are not easy even with the Hakko. of the maybe 200 pieces of gear I've used the hakko on these boards are top three most crappy to remove anything on (main boards too but try removing a part on say the sync board like I just did and you'll see what I mean...way easier if you're not trying to reuse components like I was and can cut legs of course...reflowing fresh solder helps a tiny bit also). It's right up there almost with the voice board on the Juno 60. Try pulling that 40-pin IC on that trying to keep the IC alive and you'll see what I mean:)

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by dBVelocity » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:11 pm

For desoldering I use the braid but I find that it works way better when you flux the braid prior to use. I get braid that is supposedly flux treated already but it doesn't hold up to just dipping a length into liquid flux and setting it out on a napkin while my iron warms up. I use locking tweezers to handle the braid as the flux is pretty nasty on your hands and I've not encountered a joint I couldn't clear completely of solder this way.

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Re: [AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

Post by sduck » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:24 pm

Desoldering the faders is a pain in the ass with conventional tools, but can be done. I've used both braid and a old radio shack solder sucker, and a lot of patience. The main thing to do is to Make Damn Sure you get them in the right places in the first place.

If you just want to change the led colors, you don't have to remove them to do that, just pull out the leds, put in new ones.
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