DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

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rafyc
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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by rafyc » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:14 pm

i've never solder so small components. I dont have the tools.
Do you think it's a good idea for a newbe ?

Where could i find the list of the components ?

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by forestcaver » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:20 pm

Thanks for the kind words! Bit of background - we did the first run (5 boards) to 1. learn how to do pcba boards as we’d never done it before and 2. For the challenge of trying to diy one.
The cost was pretty irrelevant - we did it for a bit of fun andreally weren’t that confident we’d get working modules - as we needed to think about the firmware, hardware substitutions and if we’d need to modify the fw for the hardware changes. Even though it’s a really cool module, I actually didnt really want one - I just wanted the fun of getting one up and running. (I do like it now, though :-) )
Just to be really clear - the licence is non-commercial. We had the blessing from Dan to do this - he was very supportive and helpful. We havent sold spare panels or spare pcbs - we’ve given our excess away. I strongly think there shouldnt be any commercial builds - it’s disrespectful to 4ms and really unfair, given their generosity in opening their designs! So, my view is - only make one if you’re not going to sell it and do it for fun! If you factor in your time and the risks of a failed/non-functioning build, the cost of a retail module is very good value! (In fact if you ignore your time and just look at the cost of parts and the risk, then buying a retail module is a no-brainer :-) )

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by forestcaver » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:25 pm

rafyc wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:14 pm
i've never solder so small components. I dont have the tools.
Do you think it's a good idea for a newbe ?

Where could i find the list of the components ?
No - if you think 0603 is small, then I’d suggest dont try this board! It’s very much not a board to learn on! Very expensive, easily damaged parts. Lots of components. You can find the list of components by exporting the list from Eagle. Plus you need to know how to program the module... Learn on easier builds would be my suggestion....
If you dont have the tools - you need to factor in - a power supply on the bench, temp controlled iron, solder, flux, hot air station to correct mistakes, multimeter, oscilloscope (you dont need one if you dont make a mistake - but essential for fault finding), function generator for debugging, magnification eg microscope, programmer to flash the module, tweezers, etc.. these will cost way more than a factory module...,

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rafyc
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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by rafyc » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:21 am

Hi,

yes you're right, i'll practice on cheap and smaller module.
this 4ms seems very interesting but out of money for me :foul:
Maybe a 2nd hand will show up one day.

Have a good day !

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by wtk » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:48 am

dan from 4ms approved diy run, providing that nobody sells his one, so with respect to him i doubt you'll find completed diy unit to buy.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by Mr. Aloud » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:04 am

I have absolutely no intent to build that thing myself, simply because I can´t. But the position of 4ms as a company is giving them an into place on my shortlist. Good move, they will get some businnes from my side soon (not that it matters, I´m just an end user, but still...).
It would seem that still, after all these years, perception is essentially thought to be a passive process.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by djthopa » Sun May 10, 2020 6:24 pm

CCC2B7F3-D7DE-49DE-BDF7-6A71AD8E2F15.jpeg
Finished mine this week :) now to leatn how to use it an create spheres!

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by wtk » Mon May 11, 2020 2:20 am

djthopa wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:24 pm
CCC2B7F3-D7DE-49DE-BDF7-6A71AD8E2F15.jpeg

Finished mine this week :) now to leatn how to use it an create spheres!
nice combo:)

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by tomb » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:38 pm

Are there any pcb / panel group buys knocking around at the moment? I'd be interested in giving this one a bash!

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by steviet » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:38 pm

djthopa wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:24 pm
Finished mine this week :) now to leatn how to use it an create spheres!
Woah! Nicely done, congratulations on a successful build. I am still waiting on my PCBs to arrive... I'm really itching to try my hands at this thing.
tomb wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:38 pm
Are there any pcb / panel group buys knocking around at the moment? I'd be interested in giving this one a bash!
I found my PCB from a place called JKLMNT Modular on Facebook. If you google that you should find it. Cost me 10 euros + shipping per PCB. I haven't received it yet. No panel, not sure where I'm going to grab that yet either.
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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by tomb » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:31 am

steviet wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:38 pm
I found my PCB from a place called JKLMNT Modular on Facebook. If you google that you should find it. Cost me 10 euros + shipping per PCB. I haven't received it yet. No panel, not sure where I'm going to grab that yet either.
[/quote]

Nice one cheers! Looks like they have panels "coming soon"

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by forestcaver » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:34 pm

Just for those not aware - the licence is CC-BY-NC-SA so it is non-commercial; if a company is selling pcbs then that breaches the licence. At most pcb fabs, 10 euros plus shipping is way more expensive than if it was at cost ie non-profit. 4ms have been really keen for diyers to build their modules non-commercially and are happy with small group buys but commercial stuff is a no-no.
I can point you at panel designs on github you could order yourselves.... that would be really cheap to have 5 built at eg jlcpcb which is what we did...

https://github.com/8bitPig/SWN-DIY-Panel

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by lavrentii » Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:17 pm

Can someone explain to me the role of U23? It's a 3.3V regulator (MCP1703x-3302E/MB) connected to a 3.3V input?

P.S The other same IC in the schematic is connected to 12V, which seems more logical to me.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by KittenVillage » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:50 pm

I've been poking at the firmware for a few days. I've had to emulate a mac in virtualbox so it's been rather slow going. I was able to get a fix for a couple of the buttons on my diy build that have green and blue swapped. I'm still getting some noise that I think is from the jack detection, but it happens very sporadically and the hardware test doesn't show much except that (at that part of the HW test) sometimes a light will stay blue when a jack is unplugged. I also get the error when I have a jack plugged in and I change modes... but again, it's happening just occasionally.

I still can't figure out how to get into cv/gate/sustain mode.

I wasn't able to get the factory wavetables to install at all using a combo hex. There's an issue on the github already about this. I'm still using forestcaver's combo hex file from 2019 and then installing the latest version, modified, on top of that.

I've hacked gelab's firmware mentioned here: viewtopic.php?p=3348934#p3348934

and added 6 more scales on top of that, just for fun. https://photos.app.goo.gl/n9bJXGVQfgR7UpqZ7


Eurorack is an exercise in delayed desire.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by rafyc » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:35 am

Someone could explaine me what are TC002 Options ?
TC002 - N11A S1 X GT - RGB (S1 Gray Transparent Cap, RGB LED Colour)
TC002 - N11A S1 X KT - RGB (S1 Black Transparent Cap, RGB LED Colour)
TC002 - N11A S1 X NT - RGB (S1 Green Transparent Cap, RGB LED Colour)
...
Does it's insted PLCC4 led ?

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by pjbulls » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:44 am

lavrentii wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:17 pm
Can someone explain to me the role of U23? It's a 3.3V regulator (MCP1703x-3302E/MB) connected to a 3.3V input?

P.S The other same IC in the schematic is connected to 12V, which seems more logical to me.
This is a secondary regulator that provides a (more) stable voltage for the ADC. On the main 3.3V line you'll have the MCU supply and all other kinds of nasty things. It's a bit weird that it's "regulating" 3.3V into 3.3V, but you don't really expect any kind of load into the ADC and this particular regulator has pretty much no drop-out voltage for very small loads. The other 3.3V regulator will pull quite some current since it's feeding the MCU etc. so there you need some headroom.
rafyc wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:35 am
Someone could explaine me what are TC002 Options ?
Not sure I fully understand the question - these are just different cap colours? The button body and LED itself is the same for all options.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by rafyc » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:17 am

pjbulls wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:44 am

rafyc wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:35 am
Someone could explaine me what are TC002 Options ?
Not sure I fully understand the question - these are just different cap colours? The button body and LED itself is the same for all options.
Thanks for looking at my message.
On the BOM it's given TC002-N11AS2XT-RGB (S2) But the option is TC002-N11AS1XGT-RGB (S1)
S1 and S2 are not the same diameter.


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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by pjbulls » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:06 pm

Ah, I see, but that wasn't your question ;)

You can find all the details in the datasheet:
Image

As you figured out already, the only difference between these two is the diameter of the cap (the bodies are interchangeable):
Image

Now, which ones you actually need depends only on your panel, since the PCB footprints will be identical anyway. Eyeballing the stock SWN it seems like they use 2x S1 for the LFO/Channel Mode buttons, and the other Channel buttons are S2. You could easily design a panel that uses all S1 though - or all S2, but then they may be a bit too close for comfort.

e:
looking at forestcarver's build it seems like he used all S2 for example.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by rafyc » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm

pjbulls wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:06 pm
Ah, I see, but that wasn't your question ;)

You can find all the details in the datasheet:
Image

As you figured out already, the only difference between these two is the diameter of the cap (the bodies are interchangeable):
Image

Now, which ones you actually need depends only on your panel, since the PCB footprints will be identical anyway. Eyeballing the stock SWN it seems like they use 2x S1 for the LFO/Channel Mode buttons, and the other Channel buttons are S2. You could easily design a panel that uses all S1 though - or all S2, but then they may be a bit too close for comfort.

e:
looking at forestcarver's build it seems like he used all S2 for example.
Hi,
In fact first question was not complete ;)
Thanks so i need S2.

One more question, i have this panel
Image
You can see that there is no led going through it. So i need light pipes.
How to determine the heigh of the pipes that i should order ? does they need special terminaison to fit to the SMD led hole or straight pipe is ok ?
I cant find in datasheet the diameter of the led hole
Image

Does
280 mcd, 900 mcd, 300 mcd is enough or should i go up ?

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by pjbulls » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:23 pm

A standard Eurorack panel sits about 11 mm from the PCB underneath when using Thonkiconn jacks & 9 mm Alpha pots, so you'll have to subtract the height of your LEDs from that and add the panel thickness. I used these light pipes in my DIY SMR, 8 mm height but probably could've gone up to 10 mm. Don't worry about the pipes mating exactly with the LEDs, that's not the idea, right overhead within a few mm is fine and you'd rather have a bit of extra clearance than too little. You will want to fit the diameter to the holes in the panel though, I'd assume these are 3 mm.

The brightnesses you mention seem plenty. Be careful though, with these SMT RGB LEDs you'll be tied to a rather specific footprint so I doubt you'll have much choice - this isn't like your standard TH LED where anything with 2 legs goes.

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Re: DIY - 4ms - Spherical Wavetable Navigator ( SWN )

Post by KittenVillage » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:16 pm

rafyc wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm


One more question, i have this panel
You should contact the person who sold you that panel and discuss what size lightpipe you should order for that non-4ms customization to it. I'm sure that person will be glad to answer your questions. You can't expect anyone else to know exactly what is needed, and there are some on this forum who might bristle at the commercial aspect of selling pcbs and panels which is not in the spirit of the noncommercial license that the module is released under.

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