surface mount-- solder chips first

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KSS
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by KSS » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:03 pm

guest wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:51 am
the T962 does need the upgrades to work well (at least in my experience). it works without them, but its not consistent.
What have you found to be the useful area on a modified oven?
as for tombstone, i feel like that has a lot more to do with pad design and trace layout, or thermal gradients in the oven. a good pad for hand soldering is a bad pad for stencil soldering.
This is an excellent point that needs repeating. Added bold, but the whole statement is already gold-en.
As is most always the case when guest speaks. :tu:

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by vaxdatex » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:04 am

I never understood why people would punish themselves soldering SMT parts. A reflow station is $50, an oven can be had for $150. Heck there's even a desktop pick and place machine for around $3000 (overkill for one off projects of course).

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by guest » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:12 am

KSS wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:03 pm
What have you found to be the useful area on a modified oven?
sorry, i didnt see this earlier. the oven definitely got hot spots before the mod, but i havent done a large board since then. the lamps run lengthwise, so its not bad in the horizontal direction, and the full width can be used, but it was a bit peaky in the other direction. you can slide the board around a bit halfway through to even it out.
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Altitude909
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by Altitude909 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:05 am

I dont do anything big, the "difficult" psu board is 110x80 but its getting it up to temperature is no problem, that thing has a massive ground plane that was a nightmare to hand solder to and the oven sorted it out without cranking it up, just the standard reflow profile I use on everything. I use this as an alternative to handsoldering single boards, if it was more than that, I'd be using a larger device for sure.

*
Edit

To add: I never ran the device unmodified..

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by infinitemachinery » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:55 am

This thread has raised my curiosity. What sort of mods are needed for the T962? Are there some guidelines somewhere? Are there missing features that are available in the more expensive models?

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:50 pm

Altitude909 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:36 pm
ablearcher wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:23 pm
.....getting stencils, placing everything by hand, then reflowing it all at once on a reflow station/heater...

this x1000. Will change your life. Like losing your virginity
:agree:
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by guest » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:06 pm

infinitemachinery wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:55 am
This thread has raised my curiosity. What sort of mods are needed for the T962? Are there some guidelines somewhere? Are there missing features that are available in the more expensive models?
https://github.com/UnifiedEngineering/T ... provements
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col
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by col » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:27 pm

Altitude909 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:20 pm
Flounderguts wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:36 pm
..
Best level up was going to Loctite solder paste...it's so much better than anything else, I just don't understand how I managed without it.
What do you use and what have you used before? I'm kinda meh with the stuff I have now, always looking for something better
Hey Altitude, If you are in the US you could get the Louis Rossmann preferred solder paste :mrgreen:

https://store.rossmanngroup.com/index.p ... ringe.html

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Altitude909
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by Altitude909 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:33 am

They have 35g tubes of Kester 500 at technitool for $20 so I'll give that a go (IDK if thats new or I missed it before). I'll keep that page bookmarked though for a no clean. I still like the cleanable stuff, my boards always get cleaned anyway since there are other parts that get hand soldered on. Its worth mentioning that "no-clean" paste is a lot different than the wire, the flux residue is almost invisible and never goes beyond the pad so its perfectly fine to use for everything. All the manufactured boards I get use it and I dont clean it (it resists the normal cleaning I do anyway without making a mess)

With paste, its always fighting shelf life so tossing 10 grams of $20 tube isnt too hard to swallow but tossing half a 500 gram jar that's $90, not so much.
Last edited by Altitude909 on Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by guest » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:15 pm

which brings up another point that hasnt been mentioned: keep your paste in the fridge!
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col
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by col » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:21 pm

What are the tell-tale signs that your solder paste has gone off?

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Altitude909
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by Altitude909 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:41 pm

loss of tackiness, like you press a part into it and its like playdoh, just leaves an imprint. That's probably well past the discard date actually. They usually put the date somewhere on the tube and the shelf life will be on the spec sheet if you go by such things..

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by KSS » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:32 pm

guest wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:15 pm
which brings up another point that hasnt been mentioned: keep your paste in the fridge!
Made less relevent by the use of Henkel/Loctite GC10. It really is true to its name, the GC standing for "Game Changer."

Of course the fridge is still great advice for many or most other solder pastes.

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by infinitemachinery » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:27 pm

Where does everyone buy their solder paste from? I looked at Techi-Tool and their price for the Kester 35g tube is okay. They require that it be shipped overnight (I understand why) but they will not tell you what the shipping charge is until you submit your order.

Rossman has the genuine Amtech solder but overnight shipping over $70!

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by TheMentat » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:47 am

KSS wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:32 pm
guest wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:15 pm
which brings up another point that hasnt been mentioned: keep your paste in the fridge!
Made less relevent by the use of Henkel/Loctite GC10. It really is true to its name, the GC standing for "Game Changer."

Of course the fridge is still great advice for many or most other solder pastes.
What’s the deal? The TDS said something like 6 months, and I got the impression that it only comes in >>>>>>>6 month supply sizes (at least for me), and it ain’t cheap! Do you find that the stuff lasts longer?

I’m curious!

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by wtk » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:56 am

I mostly use stencil+paste and place chips last (minimises the risk of moving it by accidental touch when placing nearby RC's)
as for paste i like chipquik TS391SNL - can be kept at room temperature.
when handsoldering, especially with digital modules, it is good practice to solder power section+mcu first and flash the firmware before moving on to the rest

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by Altitude909 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:14 am

...

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by guest » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:04 pm

i keep using paste till it doesnt work anymore - basically the parts dont stick, and the joints look like crap (and thats if the solder actually melts and forms metal). this can be >6 months. but, i do not reccomend this practice if you are manufacturing and selling, that is just asking for trouble.
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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by Sikkboy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:01 pm

What do you guys recommend for normal solder and for flux remover?

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Re: surface mount-- solder chips first

Post by infinitemachinery » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:20 pm

Sikkboy wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:01 pm
What do you guys recommend for normal solder and for flux remover?
I use an ultrasonic cleaner then finish with 99% isopropyl alcohol with a bristle brush. If I can't use the ultrasonic then just the alcohol itself works rather well, but with a little more work.

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