Something new I built - fun with decade counters

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by KSS » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:53 am

Sweet looking build! I like the symmetry of the LEDs and their portico 'column; side switches! ;)

Whose stacking connectors are you using?

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 am

I was against SMD for a long time many years ago. now I think a through hole build would benefit from 0402 resistors. I can solder 0402 by hand much quicker than 0603 or 0805 or PTH. like within seconds both pads. that also frees up space running under resistors. don't get me wrong the PCB looks amazing, the whole project is really impressive. but I wonder if it could get any smaller.
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by cackland » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 am
I was against SMD for a long time many years ago. now I think a through hole build would benefit from 0402 resistors. I can solder 0402 by hand much quicker than 0603 or 0805 or PTH. like within seconds both pads. that also frees up space running under resistors. don't get me wrong the PCB looks amazing, the whole project is really impressive. but I wonder if it could get any smaller.
I think this project is limited by the width of the linear potentiometers.

But i agree with you and IMO, THT only for specialized components that only exist in THT but other than that, SMD is the way to go.

All of my builds are 0603. Haven't tried 0402. Symmetry and alignment of components are a must.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:00 pm

Yeah the front board is really pretty well packed with sliders and pots. I don't think this could easily be a one board job, but I was definitely thinking I'll lay out a 100% SMT version, which I think would easily by a 2 board stack.

KSS I am just using the regular 3M .1" pin headers and sockets. There are quite a few. One is a 26 pin !

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:05 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 am
I was against SMD for a long time many years ago. now I think a through hole build would benefit from 0402 resistors. I can solder 0402 by hand much quicker than 0603 or 0805 or PTH. like within seconds both pads. that also frees up space running under resistors. don't get me wrong the PCB looks amazing, the whole project is really impressive. but I wonder if it could get any smaller.
I find with the little tiny smt parts, just handling them and getting them out of the package is more a pain than the actual soldering!

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:50 pm

Some sounds samples playing around today with the new build. First part is with the continuous random S&H going and stacking on modulation and then the sub-octave square at the end. 2nd part is messing with the sliders and then adding some modulations.

I also noticed a problem that the unit is initializing ever time I slide the S&H switch to noise mode from A or B. I swear it wasn't doing that on the breadboard. Time to investigate that!

https://soundcloud.com/saywaht/ts0-beta ... -samples-1

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:53 am

cackland wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 am
All of my builds are 0603. Haven't tried 0402.
I just checked it was 0603 I was hand soldering actually. :doh: 0402 too small for the iron. I use 0402 when I know the factory pick n place will do it. I don't think the alignment of 0603 matters at all. check it with a meter. if it works then I'm done soldering.
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:32 pm

Here's a pic of the unit with my panel made on the cheapie CNC (which I got rid of ). The part is like 7% too big so everything doesn't quite line up perfect. Had to enlarge the button holes quote a bit...Lol. anyway, I need to get a good panel with graphics made, but this is the idea.
00100lrPORTRAIT_00100_BURST20200628155957875_COVER.jpg
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by KSS » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:24 pm

The real thing looks more fake than the fake renders did!
Good looking panel and module regardless! Nice work!
Liking the round top slide switches.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:00 pm

LOL!

I think it will look better with a less ill-fitting panel with actual graphics on it too :D.

I also figured out the issue with the Atmega resetting when flipping the S/H switch. That was my screw up. A quick mod and it's fine.

Question, can anyone clarify the proper implementation of the FTDI port on a device like this. I wired it with the best info I could find on the web, but find it strange that it has Vcc on one of the pins. USB from the computer already has USB power, why would I need that on there? It seems to work (I dumped some code from Arduino to it using the Sparkfun FTDI cable, but still it seems weird to me.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 pm

that sparkfun cable can power an arduino while communicating over UART. some people have bootloaders that allow firmware update over UART after reset. most people use this FTDI232 with 328P but some people actually use it as a general purpose RS232 UART for anything. you can use them with a CNC for example. the rule is that you want power to the target provided by one power supply only. if the target has power, leave usb power disconnected. only connect the ground of USB. if you have an isolated logic analyzer you will connect the isolated ground probe to target ground.
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:36 pm

OK, thanks EatyourGuitar! That makes sense because I was able to upload code to the new module with it powered off (getting it's little brain powered off my Macbook), but when I accidentally left the module on, the computer got pissed off about USB power usage and disabled the USB ports! Glad I didn't fry my freakin' Macbook :D :D. Also thanks to the computer designiners for thinking of that stuff and not letting me fry my macbook. So I will just remove the Vcc pin connection on the module end then and then it will be safe and programmable only when actually turned on.

I also made some more sound samples, this time mostly in continuous S&H mode. I used one of my TZ oscs getting modulated to be the S&H wave form...some really interesting cross modulation and vibrato stuff you can get going. First part is a more droney "bladerunner" context, 2nd is weird techno:

https://soundcloud.com/saywaht/ts0-beta ... -samples-2

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:12 pm

you got lucky. usually it kills a regulator and a microcontroller. instead you triggered over-current protection on a mac book. if there is a jumper for 3.3v or 5v selection you should check that also. when two 5v voltage regulators engage in this battle to the death, it is predictable. each one has an internal voltage reference. they will never be an exact match. when you connect 5.03v to 5.01v, each one tries to maintain the constant voltage. they will source or sink up to the max current for that part. two 5v regulators from the same batch same part will always go into thermal shutdown when the outputs are connected. the references will never be an exact match. both of them will be loaded to the absolute maximum rating.
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:18 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:12 pm
you got lucky. usually it kills a regulator and a microcontroller. instead you triggered over-current protection on a mac book. if there is a jumper for 3.3v or 5v selection you should check that also. when two 5v voltage regulators engage in this battle to the death, it is predictable. each one has an internal voltage reference. they will never be an exact match. when you connect 5.03v to 5.01v, each one tries to maintain the constant voltage. they will source or sink up to the max current for that part. two 5v regulators from the same batch same part will always go into thermal shutdown when the outputs are connected. the references will never be an exact match. both of them will be loaded to the absolute maximum rating.
Oof! Thank you Apple engineers for building in the idiot-resistance on that one!!

A veritable cage match of voltage regulators. :foul:

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:50 pm

I got a all-SMT layout done (except the ATMEGA) and got 5 made with JLC'S SMT service and they look really good, BUT I hosed something up. VCO and counter core is working as evidenced by the sub octave square working, but something with the segment core Mux or DAC is not right because none of that is working. I can see things change as I page thru modes so I think the uC is ok. Time to dig in haha.

Here is the new PCB. It's purdy at least!
00000IMG_00000_BURST20200722205121459_COVER.jpg
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:49 pm

Well that was easy. I missed the ground connection on the main MUX...lol. put on a jumper and she's good to go.

Only minor issue is the SMT version doesn't seem to have as good of noise as the THT. I used what I thought was the SMT version of the BC548 (BC848). The noise based s&h waves are much slower rolling and less sporadically peaky than with the thru hole 548.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:17 am

devinw1 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:49 pm
Well that was easy. I missed the ground connection on the main MUX...lol. put on a jumper and she's good to go.

Only minor issue is the SMT version doesn't seem to have as good of noise as the THT. I used what I thought was the SMT version of the BC548 (BC848). The noise based s&h waves are much slower rolling and less sporadically peaky than with the thru hole 548.
you can probably change some resistors to get the right gain. it is probably the same silicon in a different package if you are getting it from the same silicon vendor. the only difference is pin capacitance and variations batch to batch. inevitably you may have huge differences batch to batch with your application since you are reverse bias for a noise generator which is off the datasheet grey area.
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by KSS » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:27 am

It's normal to need to choose a noise transistor. Might be a place to use 3 machined pin sockets to allow such testing. Otherwise it's totally hit-or-miss what any given build will have noise-wise.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:01 am

I had a feeling ya'll might say that. I guess I got lucky on the first one!

I agree though I think I will change that part to Thru hole. It's easier to do the selection that way.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by KSS » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:00 am

That also allows an easy mod to use different types and sources of noise..
Which is rich and varied fertile ground to till, plant and harvest.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:13 am

Mmmmm fresh produce! :D

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:02 pm

Got a couple proto panels in and they look sweet! Here is the SMD unit. I still have to select a better noise Q for this one, but other than that it's lookin and sounding sweet! TBH I am not thrilled with the slidercaps i got from Aliexpress...they seem to big for my liking. I will keep looking! Anyway here she is:
IMG_20200730_171717.jpg
00100lrPORTRAIT_00100_BURST20200730171637393_COVER.jpg
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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by KSS » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

You could go ARP-Buchla and use toggle caps for the sliders. The newer type are better to use as the older types -which IMO *look* better- have unfortunately become made with such cheap plastic that they split in use. The new types don't have the finer details of the OG but also don't split.

Befaco uses them heavily too.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by devinw1 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:10 am

Ah yes, I know all about these having restored a couple Oddesseys :D. The only downside was (with at least the ones I bought which were marketed specifically as Arp caps and the right colors etc..) you had to heat them just the perfect abount with a heat gun and then push them on. It's not difficult but you have to get the hang of it. Too little heat and they don't conform, too much, and they get too soft and distort.

I feel like the ones befaco uses are more pliable for some reason, but they usually use metal shaft sliders which are a bit thinner.

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Re: Something new I built - fun with decade counters

Post by frijitz » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:58 pm

guest wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:49 pm
i just had a look at the deka, and it lists 20ppm/K thermal stability of the oscillator. that makes me think its a digital core of some sort - maybe done with a microcontroller or one of the ADI digital synthesis ICs.
Oops, just ran across this.

The DD is based on the LM331 V/F IC and a standard expo converter. The core is pretty much straight from the National data/application literature (Bob Pease). This is a charge-balance design, so it is very easy to get good HF tracking.

This was actually the first synth module I ever built, back in 1975. The original version used an Electronotes Tri-core VCO, with special compensation to get good tracking up to 60 kHz. There are now several commercial versions available, and they have been reasonably successful. Pedro Eustache uses one in his analog physical modeling setup, and it tours the world.

I’ve always really liked the unique sound of the ten-step waveform, and combining two waveforms at different octaves and separate processing has been endless fun. I still have and use the original version.

Ian

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