Switches equivalence (mountain)

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Val
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Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:49 am

Hello, 
I would like some help to define / understand some stuff about switches.I'm currently sourcing parts for R*S kits, and in their BOMs they advise to use Mountain Switch.Aside from the limited supply of these switches, I read that there's better quality switches out there, like C&K or NKK. But I don't really know how to do a product equivalence there... Last thing I need on my part lists.
The 3 references used: 
108-0042-EVX : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Mou ... hB%2Fwug==
108-0043-EVX : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Mou ... 5TQg%3D%3D
108-0044-EVX : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Mou ... %2FQ%3D%3D
(hope links works fine)

Thanks for your help!

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Val
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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 am

Hi,
still looking for this, not sure how to do equivalences on switches ... thanks

P.S. anyone has any infos on THAT chips ??? absolutely no shipping date anywhere, all compltely gone, there's a shortage on this

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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by guest » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:02 am

for the switches, its a bit of a tedious process to do cross referencing, which is probably why there werent many replies. you have to get the datasheet for the original part, and find the dimensions and switch style, and then use these to search for available parts from other manufacturers, which you verify by looking at those datasheets.

for example, the first on on your list is:

1. SPDT
2. on-on
3. 0.34" tall (distance off pcb to bottom of bushing when mounted - basically panel clearance height)
4. 0.1" pin spacing
5. 0.03" pin "diameter" (theyre actually square, and thats the largest flat dimension)
6. 10-48 bushing thread that is 0.22" long
7. 0.2" x 0.32" body size (you can usually get stuff a bit bigger/smaller and it doesnt matter)
8. 0.37" baton length (probably not too critical)
9. 28VDC/3A rated (you need at least 24V rated, but you can probably deal with less amps)
10. 20milliohm contact resistance (anything small here is fine)
11. rated for 30k cycles

the third is the same except an ON-OF-ON SPDT, and the second is ON-ON DPDT, which has similar dimensions, but a bit wider body and 0.2" spacing between the two rows (6 pins, 2 rows of 3, pins space 0.1" in a row). these are pretty common sizes, so there will definitely be replacements, but its just a matter of looking at the NKK or C/K datasheets to be 100% sure.
openmusiclabs.com

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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by guest » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 am

check out the series 200 switches from E-switch, they seem to be a pretty close match.

as for the THAT parts, have you tried smallbear?
openmusiclabs.com

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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:44 am

Hey, thank you, seems like I can find something from e-switch and C&K. I could find something available because the Mountain Switch are out of stock everywhere. And they're don't even have gold contacts.
I don't know much about switches "good brands" but i think e-switch and C&K are good?
I'll build reference and check datasheets for dimensional matching
I'll post them here if I find something that could fit
I don't want to wait end of may to build my r*s SSG

Also, smallbear only have the 2180LB, not the 2180AL08 I am looking for ... but I guess its just because there's this shortage ... sucks
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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by jimfowler » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:26 am

E-switch, NKK, mountain and C&K all perfectly fine parts.

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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by KSS » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:29 am

mountain is mouser's in-house brand of offshore switches.
Another well regarded offshore switch supplier -more like mountain- is lovemyswitches.com

C&K, ALCO and NKK are most definitely better switches.

But one must be careful in that, because "switches" is a HUGE and WIDE label. There are *many* types of switches, and to issue a blanket statement about ANY brand being better or worse overall in a broad category like "switches" is a dumb thing. <--Yes, I did exactly that above. But it's why I'm adding this! and more below.

You *will* generally get better switches -in most types- from a first tier mfr like NKK or C&K. And those in the second tier like mountain and lovemyswitches <--Which I think are Taiway may be good enough for many or most uses.

But pay attention to the details. And don't think that there's no difference in quality between the more expensive and less expensive offers. There is. It can be subtle or not immediately noticeable at all. But it's there. I've been putting together a post about this topic for a particular type of pushbutton
switch which I'll share sometime.

But back to the immediate thread.

One thing you'll you nay not notice about the non major brand mini and submini toggle switches is that they are slightly larger than the "name" brands.<--C&K, NTT are name brands. Mountain, LMS , or Taiway. are house brands. Anyways, the second tier switches in a DPDT package might be 520 x500", where the C&K are 470x500. The plastic of the off-brand or house brand switches is softer. Often a themoform rather than thermoset plastic. With meager or no epoxy sealing of the lugs to the body. That -usually- red stuff that only looks pink on the house brands because its applied so thin.
The fit and finish of the stamped parts inside is coarser and less refined; again being slightly different dimensionally. Plating is thinner. Springs differ too. This is not hearsay. Anyone can open up a few switches, take them apart and make measurements.

Don't be fooled; there ARE real differences between switches. Even switches that look really really close from the outside. But here's the corolllary truth. That may not matter to you. <--That's not the same as saying the switches are the same. They're not. Details matter.
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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:06 am

Thanks for detailed answer!
I want nice parts, so I won't have problems for a long time.

Here's what I found:
C&K
https://www.ckswitches.com/media/1394/7000toggle.pdf
Dimentionnally it's almost the same. Body being a bit taller (.350 / 8.89mm)
But the solder pins are spaced by 4.7 mm ... Next

https://www.ckswitches.com/media/1391/ttoggle.pdf
C&K T-Series
Seems to be corresponding ???!?

https://sten-eswitch-13110800-productio ... 31/200.pdf
E-Switch 200 series
Seems to be corresponding too, thank you

NKK
https://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/MtogglesBushing.pdf
Too high, wrong pin spacing

https://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/Atoggles.pdf
Pin spacing OK but no bushing

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Val
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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:12 am

Hello,
He's what I found, in the E-switch 200 series

0042 : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/E-S ... tUBA%3D%3D
N° Mouser : 612-200-A1121
N° de fab. : 200 MSP1 T1 B1 M2 Q EH
Gold contact: 200MSP1T1B1M2REH Mouser No:612-200-A1122

0043 : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/E-S ... oEZg%3D%3D
N° Mouser : 612-200-F1121
N° de fab. : 200 MDP1 T1 B1 M2 Q EH
Gold contact : 200MDP1T1B1M2REH Mouser No:612-200-F1122

0044 : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/E-S ... gLMQ%3D%3D
N° Mouser : 612-200-C1121
N° de fab. : 200 MSP3 T1 B1 M2 Q EH
Gold contact : 200MSP3T1B1M2REH Mouser No: 612-200MSP3T1B1M2REH


The only difference is that there's a flat on the bushing, otherwise it seems like it's the same thing.

If you change the B1 to B3 in the reference you'll get a switch with no flat. Unfortunately they aren't in stock / listed on Mouser ?

I'll see if i find another equivalence in the C&K T series.

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Val
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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:24 am

C&K equivalences could be :

0042 : T101 S H C B E
https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/CK/ ... zb8g%3D%3D
Mouser No:611-T101SHCBE

0043 : T103 S H C B E
https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/CK/ ... ZL8A%3D%3D
Mouser No:611-T103SHCBE

0044 : T201 S H C B E
https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/CK/ ... h1yQ%3D%3D
Mouser No:611-T201SHCBE

Replace B by a Q for silver contact or G for gold over silver if not stocked.
Same bushing as the E-Switches that has a flat side
Those C&K switches are much more expensive ?

P.S. It is very likely that the pictures aren't right for those C&K

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Val
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Re: Switches equivalence (mountain)

Post by Val » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:02 am

Hey
I made a little mistakes in references, do not use gold contact, contact rating is not sufficent. (Thank you guest)
Use silver or gold over silver contact for these c&k/e-switch they have a 2-3A rating it will do.
I’ll edit my posts above in case someone reads this, looking for the same thing! - BTW if anyone could confirm il doing this right it would be great!

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