Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

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ultravox
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by ultravox » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:18 pm

Luismarka wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:02 pm
I am considering an Oberheim Xpander clone, so this is probably the display I am going to use if I ever decide to clone it. Apparently the display is the hardest to find part in the Xpander!
You are a hard working DIY'er!

Here's a slogan for you: Luismarka does more before 9am than most people do all day - Be all you can be!
This means nothing to me... Oh, Vienna!

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by maxbobo » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:15 pm

Oh, nice! That's a really simple and effective workaround.

I really hope you do clone an Xpander one day. Would love to see that...
Luismarka wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:02 pm
I had to use the HDSP 6508 because it was not possible to find the original LT-1604. I did not change the firmware, just rewired the PCB so that the segments were connected to the same lines from the data bus. Only exception is that the original is a 14-segment, and the HP is 16-segment so I had to wire 2 segments together (segments A and D in the original are split in A1/A2 and D1/D2 in the HP display).

I am considering an Oberheim Xpander clone, so this is probably the display I am going to use if I ever decide to clone it. Apparently the display is the hardest to find part in the Xpander!

Cheers!

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discop
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by discop » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:38 am

holy smokes

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Exhale » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:05 pm

Luismarka wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:02 pm
I had to use the HDSP 6508 because it was not possible to find the original LT-1604. I did not change the firmware, just rewired the PCB so that the segments were connected to the same lines from the data bus. Only exception is that the original is a 14-segment, and the HP is 16-segment so I had to wire 2 segments together (segments A and D in the original are split in A1/A2 and D1/D2 in the HP display).

I am considering an Oberheim Xpander clone, so this is probably the display I am going to use if I ever decide to clone it. Apparently the display is the hardest to find part in the Xpander!

Cheers!
For Xpander clone you probably need an OB-VFD upgrade, expensive but definitely worth it.

http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/obvfd.html

Original FG405 VFDs are almost impossible to find, and DN4015BB (closest within modern Noritake parts) are only sold
in large quanities, to legal entities (companies).

VFDs shall be the most expensive parts in Xpander/Matrix12.
Also you'll need an updated/reworked SM power supply, because original was designed pretty badly, and it holds one rare part,
SMP tranny with 55 volt secondary (together with other various).
So, the PS for Matrix/Xpander must be designed from the ground up.

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by vadimred13 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:25 pm

Image

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Monofunk » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:13 am

Wow this is just so impressive. Sounds great and looks great. Amazing work you have accomplished.

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Luismarka
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Luismarka » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:23 pm

I guess that if I do not use VFDs, but LED displays instead, such as the HDSP6508, or even the OB-VFD update, I will not need both the +55V and the 9VAC sections on the PSU. Other than that, it uses 78- and 79- series regulators, except +5VDC. For that, I need only to figure how much current the 5V drains to decide what type of regulator to use. The PSU for an eventual Xpander clone can be simplified a lot!

Cheers!
Exhale wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:05 pm
For Xpander clone you probably need an OB-VFD upgrade, expensive but definitely worth it.

http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/obvfd.html

Original FG405 VFDs are almost impossible to find, and DN4015BB (closest within modern Noritake parts) are only sold
in large quanities, to legal entities (companies).

VFDs shall be the most expensive parts in Xpander/Matrix12.
Also you'll need an updated/reworked SM power supply, because original was designed pretty badly, and it holds one rare part,
SMP tranny with 55 volt secondary (together with other various).
So, the PS for Matrix/Xpander must be designed from the ground up.

Exhale
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Exhale » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:43 am

I doubt that it shall work out of the box without modification to display board.
Because original FG405A are 14 segment, HDSP6508 - 16 segment.
I.e. even for using another capable 40 segment VFD, you need to do modifications,
to convert starburst type of data to a dot matrix, that modern displays are using.

And I googled that HDSP6508, it's not cheap.
50$ for 8 segments.
For Xpander you need 3 x 40 segments.
It turns out that 15 x HDSP6508 are needed.
The sum is 750$.
OB-VFD is cheaper (500$) and shall work as is.

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Luismarka
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Luismarka » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:38 am

I was able to source the HDSP6508 really cheap locally, all 10 extra displays (I already have 5 here) would cost me some U$ 22.00 total - https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB ... 5be2a0547a (in Portuguese, sorry)

Sure some changes are required, I did not take the time to assemble a small prototype to see how to drive these LED displays as in the Xpander circuitry but I suspect it is just one transistor and a couple resistors for each segment: 14x15=210 transistors. A lot, sure, but still doable!

About the 2 extra segments in the HP display, I just connected both to the same transistor in parallel (one resistor for each segment). Worked fine! But of course, the OB-VFD is much simpler because I would not need to mess around with PCB layouts, so it is still a good option. Also, the color of the HP displays is different and the size is not exactly the same...
I may take a closer look into the Xpander circuits in the next few days! One point that I still do not have clear is the use of dual VCO CEM3374 ICs. Replacing those with the 3340 means that I will have 12 tempcos instead of 6, this may be a problem.

Cheers!
Exhale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:43 am
I doubt that it shall work out of the box without modification to display board.
Because original FG405A are 14 segment, HDSP6508 - 16 segment.
I.e. even for using another capable 40 segment VFD, you need to do modifications,
to convert starburst type of data to a dot matrix, that modern displays are using.

And I googled that HDSP6508, it's not cheap.
50$ for 8 segments.
For Xpander you need 3 x 40 segments.
It turns out that 15 x HDSP6508 are needed.
The sum is 750$.
OB-VFD is cheaper (500$) and shall work as is.

Exhale
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Exhale » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:00 am

I guess if you've chosen to clone Xpander, you probably like the sound of it by itself.
So you have to follow the exact route, means using 3374.
Sure 3340 is more "full body" sounding chip, but it would be hell a lot harder to fit 2 x 3340 instead of one 3374.
Yes, lots of tempcos. That's why Oberheim went 3374 in Matrix 12/Xpander era - compact, stable, easy to design around.
Also temperature stability of 3374 is much better. And despite this fact, japanese Matrix-12 often overheats and becomes loose.
People often add two fans to this revision.
USA Matrix 12 don't suffer from this issue, but has it's own drawback, badly designed power supply ;(
But the sound...... to my ears certainly more lightweight, DCOish to some extent, when compared to a classic Prophet 5 rev 3 or OB-Xa.

If you want 3340, maybe better to add a Prophet 5 rev3 clone to your project list ?
It doesn't contain expensive displays or some weird stuff.
Pretty straight forward.
And by many people considered as the best 3340 design.

Just my thoughts ;)

I probably did not catch your thoughts. You've chosen 2x3340 instead of 3374 because they are available for cheap from Alfa RPAR ?
For this reason ?

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Luismarka
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Luismarka » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:02 pm

I am afraid a Propheyt 5 clone would overlap too much with the Memorymoog clone, the Xpander has different filter and modulation options.
Yes, the 3340 is readily available while the 3374, well, not so much. If I can get ahold of a bunch of 3374s, then this will be the way to go. Anyway, this is a project I will probably not be able to start this year, simply because I am still unable to travel for work... so, no income!!

Cheers!
Exhale wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:00 am
I guess if you've chosen to clone Xpander, you probably like the sound of it by itself.
So you have to follow the exact route, means using 3374.
Sure 3340 is more "full body" sounding chip, but it would be hell a lot harder to fit 2 x 3340 instead of one 3374.
Yes, lots of tempcos. That's why Oberheim went 3374 in Matrix 12/Xpander era - compact, stable, easy to design around.
Also temperature stability of 3374 is much better. And despite this fact, japanese Matrix-12 often overheats and becomes loose.
People often add two fans to this revision.
USA Matrix 12 don't suffer from this issue, but has it's own drawback, badly designed power supply ;(
But the sound...... to my ears certainly more lightweight, DCOish to some extent, when compared to a classic Prophet 5 rev 3 or OB-Xa.

If you want 3340, maybe better to add a Prophet 5 rev3 clone to your project list ?
It doesn't contain expensive displays or some weird stuff.
Pretty straight forward.
And by many people considered as the best 3340 design.

Just my thoughts ;)

I probably did not catch your thoughts. You've chosen 2x3340 instead of 3374 because they are available for cheap from Alfa RPAR ?
For this reason ?

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BadPixel
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by BadPixel » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Awsomesauce! Amazeballs!! And any other superlative known to man :tu: Keep up the great work :yay:

:hail:

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Kevin Mitchell
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Kevin Mitchell » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:16 pm

Please don't take the P5 clone from me :lol:

Yeah, I'm working on one. Luismarka had inspired me to pick at it. Schematics are done, almost settled on the layouts - control boards seem to be right. But let's keep it down to whispers till next year when there's something substantial to share.

FIY - These really aren't projects for sane people :hihi:

-KM

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Luismarka
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Luismarka » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:37 pm

Wood parts just arrived. Still in a raw state, just checking the dimensions and how they fit in the chassis before applying finish: fine sand paper and a few layers of varnish. Dimensions are OK so I may have it all done in a couple days, depending on how fast the varnish layers get dry.

Had to remove the leftmost panel label, sending it back to the manufacturer because the display window has to be modified: the color was not right.

Cheers!
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Kevin Mitchell
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Kevin Mitchell » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Dude, you are nailing this thing!
:tu:

-KM

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Luismarka
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Luismarka » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:04 pm

Yeah!! When completed, it will be hard to differentiate from the original! Both in sound and appearance.
Cheers!
Kevin Mitchell wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:51 pm
Dude, you are nailing this thing!
:tu:

-KM
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ultravox
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by ultravox » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:17 am

I have a Moog Voyager and Luismarka's Memorymoog would be a perfect companion.
This means nothing to me... Oh, Vienna!

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Thorsday » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:35 am

ultravox wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:17 am
I have a Moog Voyager and Luismarka's Memorymoog would be a perfect companion.
That's nice, dear.

Is this MammaryMoog set to milk the space again?

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ultravox
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by ultravox » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:56 am

Thorsday wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:35 am
ultravox wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:17 am
I have a Moog Voyager and Luismarka's Memorymoog would be a perfect companion.
That's nice, dear.

Is this MammaryMoog set to milk the space again?
I'm not sure I understand??
This means nothing to me... Oh, Vienna!

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Thorsday » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:47 pm

MammaryMoog.

Mammary is a breast... Breasts make milk.

Mammary sounds like Memory.

I am from the utter side where space milk is plentiful.

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by tioJim » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:57 pm

Thorsday wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:47 pm
space milk
Is that what the kids are calling it these days? :hihi:

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Luismarka
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by Luismarka » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:45 am

Very close to completion now! Waiting for the revised leftmost panel label to arrive, and I am talking to a guy that makes 3D printed prototypes for the buttons. The machining shop still did not give me a quotation for the aluminum side cheeks, I am about to manufacture these myself with a hacksaw/file/sandpaper...

Cheers!
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makenoise
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by makenoise » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:50 am

Holy hot damn.

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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by bemerritt » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:04 am

This is incredible

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ultravox
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Re: Moog Memorymoog sucessfully cloned

Post by ultravox » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:59 pm

Luismarka wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:45 am
Very close to completion now! Waiting for the revised leftmost panel label to arrive, and I am talking to a guy that makes 3D printed prototypes for the buttons. The machining shop still did not give me a quotation for the aluminum side cheeks, I am about to manufacture these myself with a hacksaw/file/sandpaper...

Cheers!
I think I've said it before: whatever your plans are - COUNT ME IN FOR ONE! :hihi:

This is no less than a work of art.

Congrats Luismarka!
This means nothing to me... Oh, Vienna!

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