mlvesecky wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:36 pm
I don't think asking about an obscure and outdated finishing process implies my ignorance of minimoogs.
There's nothing obscure about this. Outdated maybe, due to environmental regs changing formulations and processes. I guess the first thing we should clarify is where you are meaning to apply the crinkled finish? Because the only place that might have any crinkled finish is the LHC panel. The main panel is not a finish, but a huge plastic label as I described you might source using Geo. Mattson's source. FWIW, you could also do the LHC that way too, which would make your job MUCH easier. And there is precedent for that type of LHC finish for mmg's too. <--And it's 'crinkly'. The label.
The crinkle process is what I am having trouble finding details on, I know what it is, but there are many different textured enamels and cannot find details on which one/what method will create a similar texture as the results vary greatly. It does not seem like you have information on this either.
LOL for the underlined. Okay, so we're talking only about the LHC, because that's the ONLY paint on a mini besides the black of the particle board bottom.<--Which should be changed to BB ply. The first mistake is that it's not enamel. It is-was Sherwin Williams Polane. Hysol is another brand name for a similar formula. Though Hysol is-was usually aimed more at screen printing than backgrounds. The method is this. First you spray a smooth coat using standard atomization of your gun. Remember this is before HVLP were widely used -if at all. Then you let this standard clean flat film "flash over" as you reduce the air pressure on your standard gun, to give a spatter or texture coat. <--This is an advanced technique and will take much time to get the skill and experience to do it for a production run where you want all parts to look the 'same'. Both primary input pressure and mix levels and needle position are all involved. As is timing. Guys who used to do this regularly had put an additional valve for air input at the handle of their gun to quickly make the needed change and return to 'normal' levels after.
So that's a brief
explanation on the crinkle process
. More commonly called texture coat or spatter coat, depending on the size of the droplets in the 2nd coat. For a mmg LHC, it'd be a texture coat. As you can see I have no information about the process.
It seems I will just have to experiment. Yes, the first few didn't have enamel, but when I say original I am referring to the vast majority of the original run which is the look the people associate with them. I guess I should have been more specific. IMO the crinkle finish is an iconic part of the design, hence why I am exploring it, rather than taking the easy route of anodization or powered coating (yes I know the originals weren't powder coated.)
Yes, you will need to experiment if you choose anything over dual pre-printed and textured
plastic labels; main and LHC. Because nearly all the modern texture coats do not look the same as the classic process just described and used for so many vintage synths of the 70s. There ARE some powders which come VERY close. But most of the ratttle can textured finishes are too fine -like sandpaper- or too coarse to look like the original mmg LHCs. Even at the correct size, their variation in size and shape misses the look of the old 2 step process.
At least part of the reason for this is that many of the modern finishes have different formulations and do not flash and meld the same as the old process. Both Polane and Hysol are catalyzed finishes. It IS possible to do a mmg LHC style texture with a water-base or modern catalyzed finish, but it's going to take a lot of experimentation. Frustration. If you're already decided for a non label path, I strongly suggest you look into the textured powders. Their texturing is built in and once you get the right one you will have consistency from there on out.
Another option I mentioned only briefly is the use of a Roland Versa UV printer. Again this favors silver sides to the LHC -as on the moog modular and some mmgs- rather than full black. But I have had some conversations with Rich aka flareless on MW about how to get a full black print in two steps at another MW topic in the 5U section. You can read about it in that part of MW. UV printing of this type is a REALLY good option for what you're trying to do.
I have made much more complex woodworking projects and the metalworking is very basic.
You might find this to be less so than you think. But it depends on the tools, skills and experience you have, so I'll again wish you luck and success while cautioning that the project may be more than you think it is right now.
With Yusynths case resources making the wooden parts are no problem.
What joinery do you intend to use? Will you make the cases to the original standard? Or to the later non-rounded front and intentional error-hiding recess version? Do you understand the differences needed for single or dual hinge? To both the wood and the metal? FATAR vs P-R?
The printed panels are only as difficult as reproducing the designs in CAD, something I cannot do until my own reproductions arrive in march.
This will take longer than you think to get exactly right. There is much you can do before your repro panel arrives. Using some very good -and some not so good- already online mmg main panel layouts. Like the ones at crazy patroche's site. Pull in one of these online images as background and re-create yours over it. Then when your repro panel arrives you can fix and re-scale any errors having already gotten the bulk of the work done.
There are local services who can water jet cut
Both water jet and laser may have overly rough edges unsuitable for this panel. Expect to do secondary finishing -or pay for them to do so.
I personally prefer the enamel, I just do not know any services that do enamel locally
Where is 'local' for you?
I certainly do not believe I am getting in over my head with the case,
I hope you are right. But to think that you're the only one who could do this is inaccurate. And could be foolhardy.
The proof is in the pudding though, and you will see plenty of case progress over the next couple months,
I look forward to this. And just to be clear, I'm in favor of you having success
. But even after you've made one unit as a test, you're still a long ways from a successful run for others
. Ask Synthcube about that. IMO, your current timelines are FAR too hopeful. Start with how long it takes to get the switches in orange and light blue. For what its worth, the lot size required is not so large as you might think. So do give them a call and get that started sooner than later. Or, better, re-adjust your timelines so you're not pressured into 'baking this cake' as if you've baked many similar 'cakes' already. It's going to cost a LOT of up front money to pull this off.
but right now I am focused on parts acquisition and making this keyboard group buy a success.
Keep in mind that the FATAR KBDs are slightly wider than the P-Rs. So you'll need to adjust your case dimensions for that. For sure. And as I mentioned the attachment of the P-R is five screws of a steel framed KBD where the FATAR is many more screws on a MUCH less rigid plastic frame.
Meaning that you can't simply re-make the old case and throw the FATAR into it. It WILL need re-engineering to be secure in operation and travel.
I've left you some strong hints about that in pior posts and the mmg clone case drawing I shared. There's enough info in that drawing to make one if you have some building experience. It shows both a Duo-Tyne and card-edge style provisions in the metalwork. You'd use the Duo-tyne version since its in keeping with simpler and also fitting for a ribbon connected front panel PCB.
This is a long term labor of love that I am determined to get right. Just want to stress that this isn't some lark that will be abandoned as soon as I hit a roadblock. Every problem has a solution!
Glad to hear that. Only hope you keep in mind that this is an often prior tread path, and many who have done so may have advice worth listening to. First of that from me being, set your buyers expectations farther into the future. You're going to need that.