Modular as diffusor?

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listentoaheartbeat
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by listentoaheartbeat » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:32 am

Well, we are not looking at strong cancellations here so a filter boost is likely to help. All of these solutions both cut and boost to even out the response. Sonarworks let’s you restrict the maximum amount of boost to avoid crazy filter curves.

I have a separate computer with an RME FF400 set up as monitor controller, running metering and room correction. I am using Kushview Element to host the plug-in on that system. I am sure a similar setup is possible on a single computer, depending on the routing options of your audio interface.

Especially when starting to use DRC I think it’s good practice to do a lot of comparative listening and have the option to quickly bypass it at any given time. I only discovered the problems with ringing of the FIR filters this way.

I want to check out DIRAC Live, too, as it offers more flexibility in regard to restricting the measurement range and adjusting the target curve. Sonarworks is super user friendly but lacks advanced options. ARC sits somewhere in the middle. This user review is very comprehensive:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... ion.18607/

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snoop
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by snoop » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:53 am

It’s certainly interesting, and i will try it out 👍

would not also just using a EQ on the master be just as good? Only dialing in some spesific peaks?

Without having experience with said software, i would possible have more understanding and control over the corrections?

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Radiance2021
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by Radiance2021 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:01 am

Does anyone here ever experimented with two sub's?
Adding another sub allows you to play a lot more with positioning and thus being able to cancel out certain standing wave peaks or dips...

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snoop
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by snoop » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:10 am

Radiance2021 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:01 am
Does anyone here ever experimented with two sub's?
Adding another sub allows you to play a lot more with positioning and thus being able to cancel out certain standing wave peaks or dips...
I have not, but was thinking about it. Right now it seems the sub is not the big problem any more, it seems very accurate at the crossover. At 90 my mains cleary and audible takes over. So my task for today is testing the front wall and any build up there. I have no corner trap at the right side...

Maybe filter in a sub at 80-110 🙂 or change the crossover for the sub to 100?

helix
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by helix » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:17 am

snoop wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 am
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 am
At this point you can also consider using digital filters to even out the room response in the sweet spot. Automatic solutions like Sonarworks and ARC have gotten pretty good in recent years and remove the pitfalls of DIY acoustic measurements. I am successfully using Sonarworks in my treated studio. I avoid the FIR filter setting due to noticeable ringing when listening to percussive sounds in isolation, but the minimum phase setting works well for me. I think both products have trial versions so you can try before buying. You can use any measurement microphone if you have the calibration file.
Yes, i think i have to use that as the final touch, when everything else is tried. But it will not work on dips in the frequency? Only peaks? If it’s a cancelation, no filters will help with this?

If you have time, please tell more about how the filters hjelped you?

So you mix with filters on the master, then when bouncing you bypass it?

That's correct, i tried ARC once (for a few months with various measurements) but i found the sound a little offputting to be honest. I actually got better translating mixes when i didn't use it.

Have you tried turning off the sub again now you've got it looking and sounding flatter. A sub in that room to me doesn't make a whole heap of sense!
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snoop
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by snoop » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:25 am

helix wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:17 am
snoop wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 am
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 am
At this point you can also consider using digital filters to even out the room response in the sweet spot. Automatic solutions like Sonarworks and ARC have gotten pretty good in recent years and remove the pitfalls of DIY acoustic measurements. I am successfully using Sonarworks in my treated studio. I avoid the FIR filter setting due to noticeable ringing when listening to percussive sounds in isolation, but the minimum phase setting works well for me. I think both products have trial versions so you can try before buying. You can use any measurement microphone if you have the calibration file.
Yes, i think i have to use that as the final touch, when everything else is tried. But it will not work on dips in the frequency? Only peaks? If it’s a cancelation, no filters will help with this?

If you have time, please tell more about how the filters hjelped you?

So you mix with filters on the master, then when bouncing you bypass it?

That's correct, i tried ARC once (for a few months with various measurements) but i found the sound a little offputting to be honest. I actually got better translating mixes when i didn't use it.

Have you tried turning off the sub again now you've got it looking and sounding flatter. A sub in that room to me doesn't make a whole heap of sense!
No, but it’s on the list. The reason for the sub is that i need to have my mains on a wooden bridge with lots of equipment mounted+ little room for moving the mains. I also need to hear whats going on below 40.

The sub improved things a lot with proper placing and a lot of absorbers behind it

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listentoaheartbeat
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by listentoaheartbeat » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:51 am

snoop wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:53 am
It’s certainly interesting, and i will try it out 👍

would not also just using a EQ on the master be just as good? Only dialing in some spesific peaks?

Without having experience with said software, i would possible have more understanding and control over the corrections?
Getting the acoustic measurements right on that detail level is quite difficult. I wouldn’t trust anyone but the most experienced acousticians. Then you have to match the filters, confirm by measurements that again are prone to error—I think automatic solutions are much more reliable in a DIY situation. Additionally, most of the
available products don’t just apply filters to deal with frequency but also the phase response.
Radiance2021 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:01 am
Does anyone here ever experimented with two sub's?
Adding another sub allows you to play a lot more with positioning and thus being able to cancel out certain standing wave peaks or dips...
I am using two Klein & Hummel O800 subwoofers, adding the second one made a huge difference. The instructions for positioning and measurement provided by K&H/Neumann are excellent and also apply to other subs. Highly recommended, the docs are available for download on their website.

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Radiance2021
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by Radiance2021 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:33 am

listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:51 am

I am using two Klein & Hummel O800 subwoofers, adding the second one made a huge difference. The instructions for positioning and measurement provided by K&H/Neumann are excellent and also apply to other subs. Highly recommended, the docs are available for download on their website.
Thanks for that!

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Radiance2021
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by Radiance2021 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:40 am

listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:51 am
The instructions for positioning and measurement provided by K&H/Neumann are excellent and also apply to other subs. Highly recommended, the docs are available for download on their website.
Do you maybe have a link? I can't find any Klein & Hummel website. Seems they've been bought by Sennheiser...

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listentoaheartbeat
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by listentoaheartbeat » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:17 am

Yeah, they are sold as Neumann speakers now. Check this page for the following docs:
  • Setting up Studio Monitors Guide (English)
  • Test Signals and Instruction for Setting up Subwoofer-based Systems (English)
The operating manuals for the subs might also contain useful information.

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Radiance2021
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Re: Modular as diffusor?

Post by Radiance2021 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:28 pm

Thanks!

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