SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

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htor
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SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by htor » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:15 pm

I'm having a hard time source a sub mini SPDT (ON)-OFF-ON toggle switch for eurorack.

I've found a nice one on Farnell, but they want my VAT number, and i don't have one. the same goes for RS and Mouser. they all want my VAT number, so i'm unable (it seems) to buy anything from them. :deadbanana: :sadbanana:

Thonk does not have the type i'm looking for, but they have the normal SPDT ON-OFF-ON at least and they don't require my business VAT number.

any ideas?

cheers

:guinness:

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by mskala » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:54 pm

Where are you located? It seems surprising to me that those places would require a VAT number; they might accept one, if you have it, to include on the invoice so you won't have to pay an import tax, but I would normally expect them to be able to ship to an individual who doesn't have one. When I was living in Denmark I had no trouble ordering from Farnell without a VAT number.

If you're in the UK and ordering from outside the UK, then this could be related to the recent tax rule changes (sellers must collect UK tax for packages valued £135 or less, and most international sellers cannot realistically do that so they end up refusing to send such packages unless the recipient is tax-exempt with a VAT number). If so, it might help if you could arrange for your order total to be more than £135 (at which point the seller will no longer be obligated to collect the tax - it'll be done at the border). However, that doesn't seem really likely to be what's going on because I think both Farnell and RS are UK-based anyway.
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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by guest » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:58 pm

openmusiclabs.com

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by whoop_john » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:51 pm

htor wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:15 pm
I'm having a hard time source a sub mini SPDT (ON)-OFF-ON toggle switch for eurorack.

I've found a nice one on Farnell, but they want my VAT number, and i don't have one. the same goes for RS and Mouser. they all want my VAT number, so i'm unable (it seems) to buy anything from them. :deadbanana: :sadbanana:

Thonk does not have the type i'm looking for, but they have the normal SPDT ON-OFF-ON at least and they don't require my business VAT number.

any ideas?

cheers

:guinness:
The subminiature ones I use are called by the magic code SMTS-103. I get these from Aliexpress, which are delivering quite fast to the UK because Aliexcuse add UK VAT at source now. About 10 days. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759244103.html. These switches, if soldered into PCBs, sit at a height to match the box-style 3.5mm sockets and a number of PCB mounting pots. ON-ON versions are SMTS-102, ON-OFF-ON are SMTS-103. DPDT versions are SMTS-202.
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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by htor » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am

guest: it will work, but I'm looking for a round shaft.

thanks for the Ali tip!
I didn't find a "sub mini" size for the (ON)-OFF-ON SPDT switch, but that's fine really. Seems uncommon.

I talked to Farnell Norway (where I live now). They don't sell to non-businesses. but, I must have been sleepy when attempting to order from Mouser yesterday, because today I managed make an order without VAT number. :nana:

So I ended up with these two switches:
100SP2T6B11M1QEH 200MSP5T1B2M2QE
2MS3T1B3M2QES

just curious: when the datasheet says NONE and OFF, does NONE imply only two states and OFF imply three? – OFF being the middle state?
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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by KSS » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:20 am

Why sub-mini?

Regular miniature toggles -like the 7107 from the C&K 7000 series- will work fine on your ADSR panel.

C&K's T107 -from their T-series- is submini on-off-(on). <--But you don't need sub-mini

lovemyswitches.com has decent quality import switches.

EDIT: Be careful with cheap import switches! It's a given that switches are some of the most expensive parts in any module. They're also at the very CORE of its operation. This is NOT the place to go cheap! I've written extensively in other threads about all the ways these cheap switches use poor material and low quality nfg operations to achieve their low price. When a cheap toggle fails it often locks in one position. Or gets noisy electrically. Carefully consider whether saving a little money is worth more than the time you will need and the potential frustration you will experience when a switch fails. Switches are NOT the place to try and save money on modules. And the differences between the good ones and the not-so-good and really bad ones are easily evident in detailed inspection. Internal inspection especially. There are usually clues externally too but please don't assume that all switches are equal. They aren't. /edit edit typos

Download the PDFs for both of these C&K toggle switch series and you can -and should- put together a complete part number. Then put that number into octopart.com.

Be sure to enable see all the options via the drop down. <--Like most websites, Octopart shows its 'preferred' suppliers in a biased results listing.

Once you have the various suppliers for the C&K, and go to their sites, you will often get recommendations of other options from *their* available products. Different mfrs.

One issue you run into with this kind of part, is that there are SO MANY options for each switch. You may have to modify your search by changing part of the part number. Different contact plating for example. But that's where Octopart comes in because you'll quickly see which parameters of a given part are 'normally' stocked by the various distributors.

Edit: Yes. None means no middle position. two toggle positions.
Last edited by KSS on Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by KSS » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:42 am

Regular miniature toggles will fit fine between the parallel PCB and panel at the the distance created by typical Euro Jacks.

It's the threaded bushing which is usually too long. That's because most distributors stock only the longer threaded bushings as being more universal. But you CAN get a .281" length instead. This will avoide that overly long look we see all the time when the distributors' typically stocked toggle switches and their long bushings are used.

If more of us asked for the shorter bushing, we might get some of this preferred type stocked. Certainly Synthcube and Thonk *should* be getting this type for their kits which use Toggles with the nominal 11-12mm distance between PCB and front panel.

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by whoop_john » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:36 pm

htor wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am
thanks for the Ali tip!
I didn't find a "sub mini" size for the (ON)-OFF-ON SPDT switch, but that's fine really. Seems uncommon.
I gave you a link directly to the Aliexpress item - it's https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759244103.html. It is submini. The height of the body is 7.5mm high.
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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by Val » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:56 pm

I made a thread about this: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=234055
Yeah it's all mouser but you can search the references if you can find them elsewhere

+ I ended up buying Dailywell - which are available at thonk
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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by htor » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:44 am

KSS wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:20 am
Why sub-mini?
i don't have that many "minis", but they feel rather largish for eurorack? although they fit. sub-mini seemed like a good choice?

but the real question is WHY did i buy sub-minis WITHOUT THREADS? :mad:

how did i not see that? oh well, i will use a normal on-off-on in place until i find the right one

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by Makaiya » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:48 am

I'm in the same boat, I've got so many switches without threads.
tor wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:44 am
KSS wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:20 am
Why sub-mini?
i don't have that many "minis", but they feel rather largish for eurorack? although they fit. sub-mini seemed like a good choice?

but the real question is WHY did i buy sub-minis WITHOUT THREADS? :mad:

how did i not see that? oh well, i will use a normal on-off-on in place until i find the right one

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by KSS » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 pm

If you can get the proper threading die, you may be able thread those switches with unthreaded bushings. A normal die wil need to be used first inthe normal direction. Which will not then thread all the way to the base of the bushing -dies have a tapered entrance to aid in beginning the threading operation.
Then reverse the die and use the untapered side to thread close to the bottom of the bushing. Sub-mini toggle SW Bushings are nominally 3/16" which is the same as a 10-32 SAE tap OD. 10-32 is more coarse than most bushing threads, but is commonly available at hardware stores. There are also rolling thread dies as well as cutting types. Finer threads may be necessary or desirable. Especially with thick panels.

The bushing plating -depending on type- is-may be extremely hard so an inexpensive die used this way may not have a long life. But it is possible to thread unthreaded switch bushings.

As always, details matter. There are many types of dies, and some research into this would be wise before attempting the new threads. But it *is* possible if you're in a supply bind.

A second issue is that many bushings are made of brass, then plated. When you thread them, the brass may-will show. This can be unsightly or be seen as 'character'. Fortunately that's a copper alloy and the same tinning solutions used for PCBs can be used to make this less visible.

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by htor » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:28 am

you are right about me not needing a sub-mini. i just had the hole drilled to sub-mini, but i can widen it easily.
whoop_john wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:36 pm
htor wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am
thanks for the Ali tip!
I didn't find a "sub mini" size for the (ON)-OFF-ON SPDT switch, but that's fine really. Seems uncommon.
I gave you a link directly to the Aliexpress item - it's https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759244103.html. It is submini. The height of the body is 7.5mm high.
hmm, is this the on-off-(on) type? i don't see one :hmm:
KSS wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:20 am
lovemyswitches.com has decent quality import switches.
thanks for the advice KSS,
but i'm afraid i have to get a new one since i don't have a threading die.

i checked out lovemyswitches.com but they don't stock the on-off-(on) type it seems?

I'm looking at 100SP5T1B1M2QEH at mouser.
https://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/612-100-E1121

E-Switch 100 series (miniature)
SP5 = on-off-(on)
T1 = standard shaft
B1 = *threaded* bushing

will probably order this one next time i visit mouser i think

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Re: SPDT (on)-off-on toggle switch sources

Post by cygmu » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:36 am


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