Front Panel Proof Reading Thread

[johnchantler]

mixer/filter panel for full 4U panel (7x17"). stereo mixer will have 1/4" jacks on the back of the boat for connection to patchbay/interface, etc.

.....err.......not much. Nudge the quad mixer inputs if your bananas allow. You’re already a little off the usual full or half grid spacing. Do your sockets allow “one on grid, next 1/2 step along and/or 1/2 step down “ for each column? Without interfering with the mixer knobs.

I’m sure you’ve already agonised over this.

yeah, much agonising already... but always good to reconsider what and why. at the moment that row is centered at 1" vertically with each jack 0,125" above and below. they are spaced equidistantly between the far left and right jacks which are 'on grid' horizontally at 1" and 5" respectively...

[jersupereq]

All great looking.

Constructively looking at the panels most of them have mod depth controls positive depth only. Is that correct?

For the BOCGS style panel the master divider panel doesn’t make sense stylistically or practically. Why LEDs at angles? Why not put them next to the sockets like the other sections? Also, without looking into this, why 4 sockets for each division? You’d save a column if you didn’t. I think the Sub only looks busy because of the writing below the knobs. You you need all of it? Lots of the other controls don’t have all their information below. I’m sure if asked someone here could offer suggestions for simplifying

I need to look into those depth controls and verify it with the Haible boards.
Already fabricated the BOCGS panel, FPD really does some good work, but still wanted to comment back. The four outputs on each division of the master divider are 90 degrees out of phase which makes for some very cool uses. Its also really hypnotic to look at having the leds in a square formation. Ended up going with the busy looking Sub Oscillator, I'm a fan of having all the info on the panel. Don't want to go down the rabbit hole now looking for simpler way since there's no going back.

[ashleym]

. The four outputs on each division of the master divider are 90 degrees out of phase which makes for some very cool uses. Its also really hypnotic

That WILL make for some interesting offsets and timings. I must investigate.

[jersupereq]

So many blinky lights!

[johnchantler]

next one in this series of 4U panels.

going to use Schaeffer's embedded studs on the back for mounting the switches and aluminium rails for the PCBs (though the latter are shown here as countersunk screws in this version).

first one (matrix mixer, etc, from a few posts back) showed up here and turned out great, except maybe the mounting holes were too close to the top/bottom edge. have moved them in a fraction for this next panel...

[jersupereq]

Trapezoid-VCO-panel-v1.5-print-img.jpg

next one in this series of 4U panels.

going to use Schaeffer's embedded studs on the back for mounting the switches and aluminium rails for the PCBs (though the latter are shown here as countersunk screws in this version).

first one (matrix mixer, etc, from a few posts back) showed up here and turned out great, except maybe the mounting holes were too close to the top/bottom edge. have moved them in a fraction for this next panel...

This panel looks great!! Noticed a few small things. BLACET looks possibly off center from the SYNC text above it. Also the wave shapes looks higher than the text under the jacks, not sure if this is a stylistic choice.

[johnchantler]

Trapezoid-VCO-panel-v1.5-print-img.jpg

next one in this series of 4U panels.

going to use Schaeffer's embedded studs on the back for mounting the switches and aluminium rails for the PCBs (though the latter are shown here as countersunk screws in this version).

first one (matrix mixer, etc, from a few posts back) showed up here and turned out great, except maybe the mounting holes were too close to the top/bottom edge. have moved them in a fraction for this next panel...

This panel looks great!! Noticed a few small things. BLACET looks possibly off center from the SYNC text above it. Also the wave shapes looks higher than the text under the jacks, not sure if this is a stylistic choice.

thank you. amazing: the blacet text was off by 0,0044 inches ;—p (though I imagine this could also be something to do with alignment pre/post converting to outlines) The 'in/out' text on the mini wave was in the wrong spot, so now aligned with the waveforms... nicely spotted!! though I now wonder if the position of the LEDs looks off with that text in the 'right' place...? maybe the green row should move up so that the edges of both rows are the same width as a banana jack.

[ashleym]

next one in this series of 4U panels.

Very lovely! As you have asked for comment and please take this as only constructive and an opinion.

From the Blacet VCO, any thoughts on labelling the pulse output was as such with a graphic? or showing what the VC wave is at either end of the control's travel? i know these might break the design but they do work with the other output bananas. Or a connecting line from the FM control and socket to the related switches? As ever for me i see more uses for 2 FM inputs than v/oct ones.

The trapezoid looks like is has swallowed a lot of steroids. What a beast.

For the Wiard microwave, it makes sense to me to have the wave and bank controls labelled as you have in the trapezoid VCO, one knob TZ, no connecting line, TZ MOD and connecting line to the input banana for modulating. My eyes say label Bank, then the control above Bank Mod and connect a line to the banana above that.

Ignore all of this if you want to. Great work- you not me........

[KSS]

"COURSE" should be "COARSE"

I'd put the COARSE and FINE knobe in between the jacks, making a T shape array of the knobs. This allows the SYNC jack to be just under the PULSEWIDTH knob and therefore related to the wave most likely to be used with it. Unless you've added some kind of comparator to the sync input? But it still makes sense to have it nearer the typically used and related position.

A side benefit is that now the OCTAVE jack is next to COARSE. Which is more in line with what an OCTAVE jack does. The T shape is also visually balanced and appealing, and likely patchcord paths are simplified.

[jersupereq]

thank you. amazing: the blacet text was off by 0,0044 inches ;—p (though I imagine this could also be something to do with alignment pre/post converting to outlines) The 'in/out' text on the mini wave was in the wrong spot, so now aligned with the waveforms... nicely spotted!! though I now wonder if the position of the LEDs looks off with that text in the 'right' place...? maybe the green row should move up so that the edges of both rows are the same width as a banana jack.

I agree about the LEDs, The green seem to line up with the bottom of the jack to the left but the yellow ones don't line up to the top of the jack, I think moving the yellow up would look cleaner. I have a similar feeling about the LEDs on the Trapezoid VCO, they could possibly be at the same high as the rest of the row, but thats just my personal preference. I hope you post some pictures when this thing is built!

[johnchantler]

thank you all for very useful and constructive comments. I've made some adjustments... still thinking about what to do re: FM switches. tried labelling them 'FM MODE' but that didn't look right, also not sure about this long line with the switches in between the jack and the knob.

I should also check — the pots for 'vc wave' and 'pulsewidth' are only offsets, right? elsewhere I'm using the connecting line where it is an attenuator for the input, so I really should remove those and just label them wave mod and PWM (as seen in the middle of the 3 vcos in this new attachment).

edit: updated graphic legend to make square for wave output asymmetrical.

[KSS]

Swap the fine knob with the V/oct jack in the trapezoid vco section.

Every other VCO -on this panel- has fine above coarse. Every other VCO -on this panel- has a v/oct jack on the bottom row.

you can help train your hands to learn where things are by laying out panels in consistent ways.

[johnchantler]

good call. wonder if I should also swap the columns so that 1V/OCT is also to the left of the tuning knobs? have also swapped the upper knobs for PWM as else where CV attenuator / mod level is above the base level/offset.

[KSS]

I like the FM switches on either side of the line in the 2nd and 3rd VCO better than the first with them unreleatedly out in space.

I'd move the two toggles in the MW section to the bottom row. Then they're right nect to my fingers as I adjust the bank and wave knobs they affect. It also preserves the mice horizontal knob row you've got going, and takes the switches out of an area where they may become covered with patchcord spaghetti.

3rd VCO looks best IMO. Wave mod and PWM labels are better left off and the lines kept. It -the line- doesn't have to say this knob is an "attenuator for" this jack.. It can just as easily 'read' This knob is "related to" this jack. *Maybe* leave the PWM label in, Maybe. But definitely lose the wavemod label.


I forgot to add in the last message that having the FM jacks up near the ouputs also makes more sense in the 2nd and 3rd VCO because you've got them next to waves that will nicely patch into them.

[KSS]

I would pull both sides of the T knobs all the way down. Bringing their jacks with them as in the 3rd VCO. It makes no sense -to me- to have jacks blocking knobs without a very good reason.

By bringing these knobs and jacks down you create blank areas in the jack field. One of these spots gets the sync jack. now it's a direct patch to the waveforms from the oscs all around it-them.
Similarly, the V/OCT jacks are now up in the jack field. Above the FM jack and knob. This column is after all, all FM related. And now the knobs are free of entanglement when patched.

I'll try to do some tetris to your drawing to show what I mean

[johnchantler]

@KSS — thank you very much for this. makes a whole lot of sense to do the two rows at the bottom like this and the switches look much better nested below the FM knob as you suggest. I realised after your last comment that the hordijk I use a lot has course & fine beside each other, so I was starting to think it would be best to change the Blacet VCOs but hadn't made the mental leap to having all knobs along the bottom.

I like suggestion for colour coding the octave switching jack differently, too. maybe I'll test out a darker/full saturation variant of the turquoise jacks (these and the pink ones are dyed with RIT dyemore).

blacet VCO boards should be here tomorrow... looking forward to getting stuck into building them.

[KSS]

A few hours later.

I came back to say that the newest layout did not *look* nearly as good to me as the T-type knob layout before it. I almost gave up on posting it. There was no doubt in my mind then that it didn't have the same kind of 'cool vibe' of the earlier versions. But I could not discount how much better it would be IN USE. So I posted it -a little embarrassed actually- and went away to do other things.

And now looking at it fresh, it's not nearly as bad as it felt just after doing the Tetris shifting. I did decide to leave the MW switches where they were due to the layout of the rest of the knobs and the clean resulting look horizontally. At the time of posting, I still believed they would be better bottom most next to the knobs -as in my earlier reply. But I also conceded that with only 4 jacks, being located at the endmost, and the space afforded by the LEDs meant they'd be okay where they where-and now remain. I wouldn't change them now.

Having the mix of jacks may seem a little off the wall, and the octave jack being a different color -reflecting it's "switch" function compared to the other jacks of the color it used to belong to- definitely helps make the 'split' between output jacks which would normally be right next to each other more visually pleasing. It joins iwth the white sync jack to serve as visual dividers.

Looking at this now, I can easily imagine it STILL being *extremely* playable when FULLY patched. I can't say that about any of the prior layouts in the thread. Others may feel differently and I respect that. The reason we DIY and do our own thing with panels is to get exacty what WE want.

So it's no surprise that I'm now seeing this as a pretty integrated and well laid out "instrument", where the earlier T-type i had suggested -and at the time really felt ws the best way to go- now seems to fall short by a wide margin.

I want to patch and play this! The more i look at it and imagine patches, the deeper it feels. Where I earlier saw only a VCO rack, I now see a fully capable instrument.

As always, I'd want a companion panel stuffed to the gills with mixers. But even by itself there's a LOT here. Add a bevy of mixers -and a couple or few VCAs, and it could be explored for a very. long. time.

Hat's off to johnchantler for putting these modules together in this order. I want one.

andireallywanttomakethatmixervcaONLYpaneltoo!

[KSS]

seems our replies crossed in time

[johnchantler]

As always, I'd want a companion panel stuffed to the gills with mixers. But even by itself there's a LOT here. Add a bevy of mixers -and a couple or few VCAs, and it could be explored for a very. long. time.

did you see this one?

(made some progress and built up matrix mixer since this picture was taken)

[KSS]

@KSS — thank you very much for this. makes a whole lot of sense to do the two rows at the bottom like this and the switches look much better nested below the FM knob as you suggest. I realised after your last comment that the hordijk I use a lot has course & fine beside each other, so I was starting to think it would be best to change the Blacet VCOs but hadn't made the mental leap to having all knobs along the bottom.

Glad to help. The funny part is that I came here to get AWAY from a knotty panel-module design I was doing for the MFOS multi-stage envelope. It was driving me nuts -I've added HEAPS of functionality, and it was all starting to swirl, so i needed a break. Right before doing that, I realized I had to basically stop and start over. So I wrote a short memo of where I was in the process and came here to get a break from thinking about layouts and modules.

And ended up in a panel design discussion!

But the Just stop! And re-group! I'd just been through was definitely still with me and helped in this. I believe this experience here will help later with that layout too. So thank you.

I like suggestion for colour coding the octave switching jack differently, too.

It didn't work -for me- until i changed the color. I used orange because on-off things have always had some aspect of red in my history with modules. So for me, i'd not want the darker version of the non-switch jack color. But darker is better than same for sure!

maybe I'll test out a darker/full saturation variant of the turquoise jacks (these and the pink ones are dyed with RIT dyemore).

Dylon brand sometimes works better than RIT. And leather dyes rather than fabric dyes tend to stay dyed better longer IME.

Artboard 1VCO-panel-v2.2.png

Why did you corral the V/OCt jack behind knobs again? It was on the same line-row with the other VCOs for consistency. And there it was also free of knob interference when patched. Curious to hear your reasoning?

blacet VCO boards should be here tomorrow... looking forward to getting stuck into building them.

Those will be fun.

i'm serious about wanting one of these. And to pair it with a mixers only -and no more than a quad VCA- (the number of VCAs keeps going up!) panel.
I thnk it could be quite special.

Since Synthcube has published the schematic and original PCB, along with a request to actually use them I might have to layout and fab a PCB and Panel PCB pair for this format. I need to revisit Harald's site -actually already on my drive! to get the skinny on his Part of this too.
He also deserves mad props. What a great set of modules he's put together and shared!

Harald, If you're reading this, THANK YOU.

Just what i need. more modules to lay out! So much for taking a break from the real work to do something different here

[KSS]

did you see this one?

No, I did not! i'm normally coming from module layout so tend to avoid this topic! But for some reason your VCO's came into view and here I am.

That's quite a companion to this one for sure. Extravagant in a good way.

It's not too far removed from what I had in mind. I wanted a matrix and stereo mixer in mind even! Was gonna put the matrix at the other end though. I envision Haralds VCO doing modulations, and that means my left hand would be busy there, so the matrix would go right hand location. Just below the MW 'effects box'

Personally I'd trade out the Steiner and 73 for VCAs. The Rez is a nice choice. Hmm. But part of my desire here is that i've been saying over and over how much you can do with just VCOs and mixers. including 'mixing' VCAs. This would be a good show up or shut up project along those lines. If that weren't the case, your panel here seems really good. But I needs VCAs.

[KSS]

By the way, I really like that you're doing this in 6 hole SERGE style. That really is the sweet spot for size,space, function, IMO.

I've had to embrace the 3/4" of 8 hole -and tighter- at various times and for various reasons. And those work well too. But your panels here show just how much can be had in 96 panel positions. (with a little 'fudging' a few places, I see.)

Nice work!

[johnchantler]

Why did you corral the V/OCt jack behind knobs again? It was on the same line-row with the other VCOs for consistency. And there it was also free of knob interference when patched. Curious to hear your reasoning?

I'm not 100% sure yet. partly I think it just looks better (maybe because the two FM inputs line up), and partly I imagine the 1V/OCT source coming in from the left from elsewhere in the system rather than from other modules in this panel — which would more likely connect to the FM/TZ inputs... will sit with it for a bit and see if that holds.

[moacir]

This is a complete shot in the dark, but are there Urdu speaking wigglers? I only know the language a bit, but for personal reasons (and to poke a little fun at Émilie's Nāgarī-centric design), I've decided to design my MI panels w/ Urdu labels. I've only started sketching out the basic design, but I'm a little uncertain about—basically ALL—of the words. And for various reasons (this is a bit of a surprise), I can't ask the Urdu speakers closest to me, though I doubt many of them even know some of the technical language here. Anyway, here's a rough picture of what I've got so far:



Here are the translations:

English	Urdu
Aux	?
Band-Pass Filter	بینڈ پاس فلٹر
Bias	ترجیح
Blinds	بلا ئنڈس
Brightness	چمک
Clock	گھڑی
Damping	?
Déjà Vu	ڈیژا وو
Ears	کان
Envelope	?
Even (Numbers)	?
Frequency/Rate	تعدد
Frequency Modulation	ایف ایم
Gain	?
Gate	?
Harmonics	?
In	ان
Jitter (Stability)	استحکام
Kinks	کنکس
Length	لمبائی
Links	لنکس
Logic	منطق
Low-Pass Filter	کم پاس فلٹر
Marbles	گولیاں
Max	?
Min	?
Model / Shape	شکل
Morph	تبدیلی
Noise	شور
Odd (Numbers)	طاق
Out	آؤٹ
Plaits	?
Position	جگہ
Rate	See Frequency
Resonance	گونج
Rings	انگوٹھیاں
Ripples	چھوٹی لہریں
Sample & Hold	نمونے اور انعقاو ?!?!?
Shape	See Model
Shift/Level	تبدیلی
Signal	سگنل
Slope	ڈھال
Smoothness	لینت
Spread	تقسیم
Steps	قدم
Structure	چھب or ساخت
Strum	?
Tides	اتار چڑھاؤ
Timbre	?
Trigger	ٹرگر
V/Oct	?

I've relied on three different English/Urdu dictionaries + lots of googling and trying to read Urdu wikipedia, so just being told I'm completely off base or that I've nailed something is useful. Worst case, I'll just transliterate all the remaining terms, like گیٹ for gate, etc. Thanks and شکریہ !

[cretaceousear]

Lovely idea the panel in Urdu - but never trust a dictionary. Usage is what counts.
I worked in SE Asia and we were doing lubricating oil packaging for a middle eastern country. The director over-ruled my choice of a UK translation service and saved money by going local. When the client saw it they fell about laughing because it was written in archaic formal Arabic - not great on an oil can. Then again if it doesn't exist you're inventing the terms that will be used henceforth, unto all the ages - a great responsibility!