[PCBs] NeinOhNein CLAP -- a DIY TR-909 hand clap

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hexinverter
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Post by hexinverter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:09 pm

zvonx wrote:I'm working on this build right now. (my first eurorack build)

Just wondering if anyone knows off the top of their head what size drill bits to use the for the alpha pots and the 3.5mm knobiconn jacks?

Since resynthesis is down I ordered blanks for synthrotek

Also on Hex's pcb mounting video, the sheet metal screws look quite long for attaching the PCB to the metal bracket. Do you typically just hacksaw off the screw to the right length once installed?

Thanks!

EDIT: I figured out the drill bit. Still wondering if people just cut off the screws?
Hey! Yeah, sometimes I chomp off the screws and other times I just leave 'em or use shorter screws! Depends how tall of a PCB stack you're fixin' to the bracket of course! :tu:
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hexinverter
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Post by hexinverter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:11 pm

zvonx wrote:What kind / size of header pins do you use for connecting the noise board? I'm having a hard time figuring out the right ones to use.

I pulled these from a different hex project:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDet ... 1-124-20LF

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDet ... 0-01-20-RB

but the male pins say they are .48 inches and I'm worried that won't be long enough to clear the socketed ICs

If anyone can let me know what size they used that would be great!

Thank you
Just get yourself some nice dual row headers like these and snap off the desired length :) : http://www.dipmicro.com/store/HDR40X2M

For the male ones, clip the header down to size with some wire clippers (while wearing safety eyewear of course!)

I don't recommend buying these headers or eurorack power headers from Mouser as they're hard to find the part numbers for and far too expensive!

Have fun :bacon:
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zvonx
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Post by zvonx » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Thanks a lot hexinverter.

I'm having a bit of trouble getting the build to work. I tested the -V rail voltage and it reads .578v while the +V rail is 12 volts. So I checked my case (I'm using a Pittsburgh Modular Cell 48 system 1 case with the modules pulled out until I can get my hands on a tiptop hek)

The pittsburgh bus is putting out .578v on the -V rail. Is this wrong? I know it was powering the PGH modules just fine before I pulled them. But I was expecting to read -12 volts!

So I tested the noise card. Pin 1 I get 12 volts. Pin 2 (which should be -V) the multimeter just slowing increases in value in the mv range. Pin 7 I get continuity to ground and I do get a quiet noise signal out of pin 8.

The Clap functions almost identically to a tiptop 909 hats I picked up when plugged into the PGH case which requires 5 volts also. I didn't realize that even though the PGH case has 16 pin connectors it doesn't supply 5volts…Both the 909 hats the the hex 909 clap make a bit of noise when a trigger is plugged into the accent. Adjusting the volume knob it almost sounds like something is powering up and down, various noises.

Needless to say I'm learning a lot fast :)

So long story short: Should the -V pins be spitting out .578 volts?

The PGH website says:

"The included Pittsburgh Modular power supply provides +12v @ 550mA and -12v @ 550mA of power. A custom ribbon cable delivers power for up to 8 modules using standard 10 and 16 pin power headers. The power board uses a universal external 12VAC 1.2A AC power adapter."

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hexinverter
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Post by hexinverter » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:56 am

zvonx wrote:Thanks a lot hexinverter.

I'm having a bit of trouble getting the build to work. I tested the -V rail voltage and it reads .578v while the +V rail is 12 volts. So I checked my case (I'm using a Pittsburgh Modular Cell 48 system 1 case with the modules pulled out until I can get my hands on a tiptop hek)

The pittsburgh bus is putting out .578v on the -V rail. Is this wrong? I know it was powering the PGH modules just fine before I pulled them. But I was expecting to read -12 volts!

So I tested the noise card. Pin 1 I get 12 volts. Pin 2 (which should be -V) the multimeter just slowing increases in value in the mv range. Pin 7 I get continuity to ground and I do get a quiet noise signal out of pin 8.

The Clap functions almost identically to a tiptop 909 hats I picked up when plugged into the PGH case which requires 5 volts also. I didn't realize that even though the PGH case has 16 pin connectors it doesn't supply 5volts…Both the 909 hats the the hex 909 clap make a bit of noise when a trigger is plugged into the accent. Adjusting the volume knob it almost sounds like something is powering up and down, various noises.

Needless to say I'm learning a lot fast :)

So long story short: Should the -V pins be spitting out .578 volts?

The PGH website says:

"The included Pittsburgh Modular power supply provides +12v @ 550mA and -12v @ 550mA of power. A custom ribbon cable delivers power for up to 8 modules using standard 10 and 16 pin power headers. The power board uses a universal external 12VAC 1.2A AC power adapter."
Hmm, yeah, something is amiss there :( You should see + and - 12V at your rails, not in the order of millivolts like you're seeing.

Did the PSU work before? Try disconnecting all the modules so there's no load on it and making sure the PSU is working still by checking to see it puts out approximately 12 and -12 volts.
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Post by rosch » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:03 am

measure like hex said the output of the psu alone when nothing is connected. if that's +/- 12V then attach only one board at a time in order to find out which exactly has the short.
after that, troubeshooting time :confused:

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Post by zvonx » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:19 am

Thanks for the info guys :)

Yeah I measured with only the clap connected then unplugged everything and measured directly on the power headers on PGH bus board with the same result.

I'm going to reconnect the pgh modules tonight to see if they still work. I made sure to unplug the wall wart before tearing apart the pgh setup. Not sure how I could have broken the power supply...

Only other thing I can't think of is am I measuring the neg voltage wrong? Red lead on -V pin and black lead on ground, just like I'm measuring the +V.

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Post by hexinverter » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:09 pm

zvonx wrote:Thanks for the info guys :)

Yeah I measured with only the clap connected then unplugged everything and measured directly on the power headers on PGH bus board with the same result.

I'm going to reconnect the pgh modules tonight to see if they still work. I made sure to unplug the wall wart before tearing apart the pgh setup. Not sure how I could have broken the power supply...

Only other thing I can't think of is am I measuring the neg voltage wrong? Red lead on -V pin and black lead on ground, just like I'm measuring the +V.
It sounds like you are using your multimeter correctly, yes! So it sounds like your PSU is bust. :waah: :deadbanana:
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Post by zvonx » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:19 pm

wow i'm an idiot! :doh:

i was using my access virus power supply. :mad:

luckily the PGH case is fine and the clap works great!

i was really starting to question my soldering skills there as i haven't had a non working build in a while but i am very lucky i didn't burn anything up :eek:

i'm super happy now :banana: :bacon: :nana: :bananaguitar:

i'll start on the kick tomorrow

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Post by zvonx » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:37 pm

Got it all finished up, packed up and demo'd.

It sounds great! This is just a quick panel as I'm waiting for re:synthesis to come back online. Who knows I may just keep it like this. Just a fiberglass panel from synthrotek and a label maker.

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The clap is great. So much more varied sound than what you would get from a 909. I don't have a 909 here to compare too but it certainly sounds much better than the 909 clap in my R8mkii, JV1080 and MKS7.

I figure between hex and tip top you can get the 909 sounds with much more flexibility in sound then throw in a analogue solutions europa and still save a grand over the real thing :goo:

With the right mix between noise 1 and noise 2 it gets fairly close to the 808 clap. some sort of reverb effect like the 808 and intensity can dial in the right about of 808 grit.

here's the demo i recorded today. sequenced the clap from a 606. it's a bit long but there is a lot of sonic territory to cover with this thing! at the very end when I just have the clap playing it is quite noisy. I used solid core for all my wiring. may go back and use stranded and some bulk rca for the audio. i imagine that will help a lot.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/142095650" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

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Post by puzo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:15 am

planning my rack power consumption

whats the power consumption of this, will update modular grid too

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Post by jheronymo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:14 pm

module depth?

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Post by puzo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:39 pm

the pcb is 65mm x 73mm but doesnt have pcb mounted pots and will be mounted in your own way

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Bc559b or c?

Post by timequake » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:19 pm

Hi,

Is there any difference between bc559b/bc559c, and bc549b/bc549c?
Are c’s ok?

Thank you! :)

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Mouser cart

Post by juicepatrol » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:36 am

Does anyone have a complete mouser cart for this project. A bunch of parts are either on back order or not available from the cart on hexinverter.

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Problems with the neinohnein clap intens

Post by juicepatrol » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:44 am

I was wondering if someone could give me some advice. I am working on the neinohnein clap. When I plug the module in but have no triggers going to it, and turn either noise 1 or 2 up the noise comes through constantly. Is this normal? Also the intensity knob makes almost no change at all to the sound when I am triggering it. I watched a video of someone demonstrating the clap on youtube and the intensity knob had a much more drastic effect on the decay of the sound. Could anyone tell me where I should check for a certain voltage or something with the multimeter by chance? Any advice is appreciated.

-Thanks

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Re: Problems with the neinohnein clap intens

Post by NS4W » Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:11 am

juicepatrol wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:44 am
I was wondering if someone could give me some advice. I am working on the neinohnein clap. When I plug the module in but have no triggers going to it, and turn either noise 1 or 2 up the noise comes through constantly. Is this normal? Also the intensity knob makes almost no change at all to the sound when I am triggering it. I watched a video of someone demonstrating the clap on youtube and the intensity knob had a much more drastic effect on the decay of the sound. Could anyone tell me where I should check for a certain voltage or something with the multimeter by chance? Any advice is appreciated.

-Thanks
I (finally) put together mine today years after ordering, and have exact the same issue. I can hear a clap triggering but only through a massive wall of noise. Seems like noise signal just goes straight through. :despair: :bang:

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Re: Problems with the neinohnein clap intens

Post by voronin75 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:00 pm

I (finally) put together mine today years after ordering, and have exact the same issue. I can hear a clap triggering but only through a massive wall of noise. Seems like noise signal just goes straight through. :despair: :bang:
[/quote]

Didn't find a solution?

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Re: [PCBs] NeinOhNein CLAP -- a DIY TR-909 hand clap

Post by Bilb » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:44 am

Obviously a few years later than most but just built mine and am having similar issues to the last few posters - with the intensity knob one way, I can hear a very faint clap sound that seems to have the correct decay, however turning intensity brings in much louder constant noise, that ducks in volume when a trig is received, and the knob also seems to have some effect on the decay of the ducking (i.e. how long the noise goes silent before coming back up again). Seems like the envelope signal to the VCA is inverted somehow, does this make sense to anyone? I've traced a good chunk of the board with a DMM and the connections seem correct, I've swapped out all of the ICs but not tried desoldering transistors yet.

From what I understand the clap has two envelopes, a four-part one for the clap itself and a one-part one for the "reverb", I would guess it's the latter that is the issue but I'm not too sure from looking at the schematic which components are responsible for it. Q6 and Q7 are the two transistors closest to the intensity knob so perhaps I should try replacing those?

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Re: [PCBs] NeinOhNein CLAP -- a DIY TR-909 hand clap

Post by Bilb » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:20 am

Ok to (partly) answer my own questions, I've found this handy page which describes how the circuit functions: http://hardware.freepage.de/raf909/

"This sound uses almost the same circuit as the well known TR-808. It’s based on white noise (> from the common noise generator) which is band-pass filtered by IC26b and associated RC’s (part 1) to get the right sound for simulation. The filtered noise is divided into two parts. The first part passes through a VCA (IC 30, see part 2) which is controlled by a special envelope (ENV-1 see part 3) after TRIG (>) is applied . This envelope is the main feature of this circuit. It simulates clapping of several hands. Basically it consists of four attack-decay envelopes (Opamps a-d in part 3), where finishing the first starts the second an so on.

The second part also passes through a VCA (Q37, see part 4), which is controlled by a simple envelope (part 5). This part produces the atmospheric background sound of the instrument. It sounds like a reverb.

Both parts are mixed and amplified by IC28a (part 6) to provide level control.
"

So it looks like perhaps I was wrong about the "reverb" sound being the problem one as that is facilitated by Q8 (Q37 in the original) which seems fairly unrelated to the intensity knob, so my issue seems to be in section 2 or 3 below. Just to be absolutely sure which of the two sound sources is the inverted one, I'm going to remove C18 which should remove the quad-envelope part of the clap from the output, and see whether the "correct" sound or the "problem" sound remains, then go from there. Hope this helps anyone else with similar troubles.

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