Manhattan Analog 'Mix' - Build Thread

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makers
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Post by makers » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:49 pm

That works!

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Poldenstein
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Post by Poldenstein » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:20 am

Monobass, any news on your scheduling of this?
Definitely interested..

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Post by Cablebasher » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:57 am

As thonk haven't any kits in stock at the moment.

Does anyone have a shopping cart with all the components?

Cheers and sorry for the laziness.

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negativspace
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Post by negativspace » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:27 pm

Thonk has ordered and paid for more which are being manufactured now. That'll take a couple of weeks plus transit time to the UK. That's your timetable. :party:

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Post by kssm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:47 pm

What is the difference between V1.8 and V1.9? I have a V1.8 and I see that it has 100K pots instead of 50K, 60K resistors, a 22uF cap instead of 10uF, and probably more component changes that I missed.

What is the audible difference between the two?
Can I switch out the V1.8 components to V1.9 ones, or are the PCB traces drastically different?

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kssm
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Post by kssm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:55 pm

There also seems to be a trace bypassed from a pin on channel 1 pot going to an unmarked component that sits next to a diode. There seems to be some sort of solder paint that bypasses and reconnects this trace to the output jack.

Anyway I got this V1.8 module used and it works fine, I just find that the output is not as loud as I imagined it to be, and was wondering what changes were made to V1.9. I apologize for the redundancy from my previous post..

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Post by negativspace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:50 pm

That's one of the very first batch... there was an error so I had to cut and reroute a trace on every board. :deadbanana:

There is no functional difference with those whatsoever. The circuit hasn't changed, only the board layout itself. At one point I switched to 50k pots and 47k resistors, but either version is unity gain (you get out what you put in.) If it's not then there's a problem with it and you should PM me.

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Post by kssm » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:43 am

Sounds like there is no real issue with mine, thanks! Just some crackling pots that need cleaning :tu:

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Post by Cablebasher » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:20 am

Hey guys,

Just a quick one.

This is my first diy build that has a 16 pin rather than 10 pin power connecter.

Just wondering what the difference is?

More to increase my knowledge more than anything else!

Thanks.

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Post by rockwoofstone » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:58 am

Cablebasher wrote: This is my first diy build that has a 16 pin rather than 10 pin power connecter.
Just wondering what the difference is?
The extra 3 pairs of pins are for Pitch CV, gate, and 5V. Not always used, but for info, a full explanation is here:

http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100t_e.htm

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Post by Monobass » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:00 am

I think also on the Mix, the use of the 16 pin header might have been part of the reverse power protection strategy.
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Post by negativspace » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:51 am

Actually it's because I had a source for pre-made cables and the 10->16P variety were still a couple months off when the first batch of mixers was due. These were the very early days of the Euro DIY infrastructure... :hihi:

That necessity led me to the reverse-power protection scheme which Monobass alluded to. I still use the same scheme on every module I do with a 16P header, it's extremely effective. I still haven't had a single module come back with reverse-power damage.

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Post by Cablebasher » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:37 am

Cheers for the info fellas.

So could you just use a 10 pin (using the -12, ground, +12) power connecter instead of the 16 pin or would this cause damage.

I'm not trying to be awkward. I have a 16 pin to 16 pin coming but wondered if I could use a 10 pin to test the build before it arrives or is that super dangerous.

Thanks, again. Again. Again!!!

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Post by Monobass » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:56 am

no not dangerous at all if you always get it right :)

But I'd say if you're going with ten pin, then just make the choice and stick with it.

so instead of this

Image

it would look more like this, red stripe still at bottom

Image

but you can't fit a 10 pin cable on a 16 pin header without bending pins. So the conservative advice is just use 16 pins...
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Post by Navs » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:15 pm

Good timing - I was going to ask this on account of having the 'wrong' power cable ;)

So, how is the reverse protection tied to the fact that we're using a 16-pin connector?

It's a nice project BTW :tu: Unfortunately the sort where, if you build it right, it. just. mixes. :confused: ... :lol:

Some feedback:

- is there a way to trim/ balance the attenuversion? I know it's made for audio, but fully CW & CCW are not the same when mixing CV.

- maybe turn the board around for any future revision - having the board to the right of the panel feels odd. Or was that due to the pots?

- maybe update the excellent build guide with the advice to strip the jack connector wires before soldering the one end to the board. i.e. measure length, strip + tin both ends, then connect. Stripping the end of a 20mm bit of wire is a bit :bang:

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Post by Cablebasher » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:19 pm

Hey monobass,

Thanks for the info.

I just wait for the 16 pin to be safe.

Cheers

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Monobass
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Post by Monobass » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:08 pm

Navs wrote:- maybe update the excellent build guide with the advice to strip the jack connector wires before soldering the one end to the board. i.e. measure length, strip + tin both ends, then connect. Stripping the end of a 20mm bit of wire is a bit :bang:
yeah fair point, when it comes to wiring there seem to be as many opinions as there are people though :)
Thonk - CLICK HERE - Modular Synth DIY + Eurorack Accessories Store

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Post by negativspace » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:48 pm

Navs wrote:So, how is the reverse protection tied to the fact that we're using a 16-pin connector?
The CV/Gate/+5V bus pins are unconnected as is the "top" pair of ground pins next to the +12V rail. Plugging the cable in upside-down puts both the + and -12V rails onto pins which are floating - so literally nothing happens. Passive power protection!

The 1N4001 diodes are there as a redundancy.
- is there a way to trim/ balance the attenuversion? I know it's made for audio, but fully CW & CCW are not the same when mixing CV.
The balance between the positive and negative sides in bipolar mode is as accurate as your resistors. If you use 1% resistors there will be a little slop. If you want it precise for CV duty, use 0.1% (or hand-matched) resistors in all of the 47k positions. (The 470R is an output protection resistor and its value is noncritical. ~330R - 1k is a good range.)
- maybe turn the board around for any future revision - having the board to the right of the panel feels odd. Or was that due to the pots?
I can honestly say that I never considered the ramifications of mounting the PCB on one side of the panel or the other. But as we say here in Kansas it ain't broke, so I ain't fixing it. :despair: :hihi:
- maybe update the excellent build guide with the advice to strip the jack connector wires before soldering the one end to the board. i.e. measure length, strip + tin both ends, then connect. Stripping the end of a 20mm bit of wire is a bit :bang:
Yeah, stripping the two short wires on both ends before soldering is pretty important. (Trust me, I've built probably 800 of these things in the 3 years since I released them... )

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Post by rockwoofstone » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:51 pm

negativspace wrote:The CV/Gate/+5V bus pins are unconnected as is the "top" pair of ground pins next to the +12V rail.
Fantastically simple, but effective!

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Post by negativspace » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:27 pm

It's certainly proven itself in the field, I'd say. :sb:

BTW I forgot to address the question about using a 10P header in place of the 16. Electrically it'll work fine, make sure you use the correct 10 pads on the PCB footprint of course. You'll lose the elegance of the protection scheme that way but the 4001 diodes are still there to protect from reverse-power.

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Post by abstractjuz » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:21 pm

Has anyone got a (UK) model/type/part number for the Ferrite Beads used in this?
(I'm guessing, in an absolute worst case scenario, I could replace these with jumper leads unless I was having HF probs right? :zombie: :deadbanana: )

Thanks :tu:
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Post by Monobass » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:26 pm

Thonk - CLICK HERE - Modular Synth DIY + Eurorack Accessories Store

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Post by abstractjuz » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:41 am

Cheers Steve!
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ove
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Post by ove » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:35 am

Hi!

Just completed this one and it works great. But it seems like a low amount of sound leaks from each channel. That is, when using several channels I can hear all of them, even if just one pot is raised. Of course, the other two channels is at a very low level, but they're still leaking through. Is this normal? Any advice on how to reduce leakage between the channels?

Thanks!

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Post by negativspace » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:08 am

No, that's not normal. In fact this module should surprise you with how well the channels are isolated. There aren't many ways to get it crosstalking, either... did you use water-washable solder and forget to wash?

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