[Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by Neily2000 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:57 pm

Got it all sorted!

Yes my included printouts must have been from the web PDFs, as they're both identical (and incomplete).

regarding the U6 IC, yep there's a single dot. I just wanted to double-check as some of the IC's with notches have the dot on the opposite side.

arthurdent, when looking at your board with the power header on the top, which way does your U6 dot point?

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:21 pm

Neily2000 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:57 pm
arthurdent, when looking at your board with the power header on the top, which way does your U6 dot point?
With the power header at the top, on the analogue side the notch for U6 is up and the dot on the IC is upper left with the IC in place.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:36 pm

FWIW:
Before I started work on this, I scanned both PCB's on my scanner, converted the images to grayscale and inverted them to black on white so that I'd have some kind of reference while I was building. As I add components, I can use a pen or a highlighter to mark what I've done. It also is good to verify after the fact that I have the right component in the right place. Works for me, YMMV.
PanelBoard.jpg
DaughterBoard.jpg

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by elmegil » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:04 pm

Very nice arthurdent

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:18 pm

elmegil wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:04 pm
Very nice arthurdent
Thank you. Long story short - I'm very anal about this kinda stuff. When I got the kit, I verified each bag of parts against the BOM's, checked the color codes on the resistors and markings on the caps to ensure they were what they were supposed to be. I even checked all of the switches and pots to be sure they worked the way they should. IF I have a problem after the build, I DON'T want to start my troubleshooting with someone saying "...are you sure that resistor is correct..." or "...maybe the switch doesn't work...". But that's just me.....

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by Neily2000 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:04 pm

Thanks all! Sorted, fired it up and it's alive! Onto calibration .. woohoo!

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by synthcube » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:33 am

Neily2000 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:04 pm
Thanks all! Sorted, fired it up and it's alive! Onto calibration .. woohoo!
please be sure to post once its alive and working!
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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by djthopa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:10 pm

Just finished building and calibrating mine.
I got a kit from sythcube, great packing and labeling of the components bags!
Only problem was a 4051 ic got swaped for a 4015 ic, glad i spotted it pretty fast :
2B9B32C6-1AB3-4E48-A60E-39E970AD7461.jpeg

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:31 pm

djthopa wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:10 pm
I got a kit from sythcube, great packing and labeling of the components bags!
Only problem was a 4051 ic got swaped for a 4015 ic, glad i spotted it pretty fast
DAMN. I've got the same problem. I let synthCube know, they're sending me out the correct part, don't have one on-hand myself. That's the only thing keeping me from firing it up.!

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by wiperactive » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:07 pm

Nice slider caps on your build there djthopa. They don't appear to be the standard kit parts or the chunky covers that are normally available.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by djthopa » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:20 am

arthurdent wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:31 pm
djthopa wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:10 pm
I got a kit from sythcube, great packing and labeling of the components bags!
Only problem was a 4051 ic got swaped for a 4015 ic, glad i spotted it pretty fast
DAMN. I've got the same problem. I let synthCube know, they're sending me out the correct part, don't have one on-hand myself. That's the only thing keeping me from firing it up.!
I had a working klee after the build, but some bits where working stange. Some leds where indicating the opposite of what was going on and calibration was not working.

I went into debug mode and realized the mistake, luckily i had some spare ic from my lunetta days! Kind of easy to mismatch a 4051 for a 4015! Luckily nothing blew up and the power pins where the same on both ics :)

Hope you get yours soon!

Yes, the fader caps are the ones they sell at Thonk...sifam? They are great for faders with leds and the light goes trough fine and they have a nice touch.

Peace

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:00 am

djthopa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:20 am
arthurdent wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:31 pm
djthopa wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:10 pm
I got a kit from sythcube, great packing and labeling of the components bags!
Only problem was a 4051 ic got swaped for a 4015 ic, glad i spotted it pretty fast
DAMN. I've got the same problem. I let synthCube know, they're sending me out the correct part, don't have one on-hand myself. That's the only thing keeping me from firing it up.!
I had a working klee after the build, but some bits where working stange. Some leds where indicating the opposite of what was going on and calibration was not working.

I went into debug mode and realized the mistake, luckily i had some spare ic from my lunetta days! Kind of easy to mismatch a 4051 for a 4015! Luckily nothing blew up and the power pins where the same on both ics :)
This one is just as much my fault as synthCube's. I went through the entire BOM before I started to be sure that I had everything, I even checked the numbers on the IC's but I apparently read the 15 as a 51 just like they did when they packed the kit. If I had caught the mistake then, the part could have been in-transit while I was building and I wouldn't have to wait for it. OH WELL, in the grand scheme of things it's not a crisis of epic proportions.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by wiperactive » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:56 am

Thanks for the Sifam slider cap reference. I think I'll order the black soft touch option. If nothing else, those look much more aesthetically pleasing than those seemingly oversize TTSH pointer alternatives.

Having coughed up a steep customs import charge, my Klee full-kit is stubbornly refusing to escape the local - probably pandemic hit - depot and get on that delivery van to my door! When it arrives I'll check and report back to see if it has the same 4051/4015 mistake. Super vigilance is much of the recipe for a successful build, like you arthurdent, I tend to go the extra mile before the soldering iron is warm, even checking mechanical aspects such as pot travel integrity and the like... but still not always 100% water tight!

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by synthcube » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:44 am

wiperactive wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:56 am
Super vigilance is much of the recipe for a successful build, like you arthurdent, I tend to go the extra mile before the soldering iron is warm, even checking mechanical aspects such as pot travel integrity and the like...
THIS :tu: :tu: :tu:
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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:14 pm

I received the correct IC today, got everything put together, powered it up, and all I get are the LED's for the slide pots illuminated, nothing else functions. I tried the various startup routines in the Klee manual - Manual Load Switch, Clock & Shift Register - and nothing works. I checked all of the IC's, they appear to be seated properly, even pulled the analogue/digital board off of the daughterboard and re-seated it, no change.

WHERE DO I START?

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by elmegil » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:46 pm

Did you start with page 93 of the build guide (the original) where it talks about checking for power shorts and power to all the various chips? Power is the first thing to check, almost always.

When you power on, do any of the step LEDs light? Or are they always off? It's not uncommon for the Klee to come up with random step bits set. When you do manual step, do any of the other LEDs light at all?

One possibility (which would be pretty unpleasant to fix) would be the LEDs being on the PCB backwards? Again I don't have a Euro version in my hands but you should be able to determine which way the LEDs are intended, take a 9V battery and a 10K resistor and verify which way the LED actually lights up, and check whether that matches what it's supposed to be on the PCB.

If all that checks out, first thing in the bring up that doesn't work is the Manual Load switch so start there.

The load switch is a pushbutton. Power off, pull boards apart, check that when you push the switch it has continuity, and when you let go, it doesn't. When it's pressed, it should have continuity to ground as well. If the switch itself works, then trace where it goes to with the help of the schematics, put the boards back together and STILL with the power off, see if the point that is supposed to see the switch close actually does (in the original schematics this is J2 pin 3 and it should be grounded when you press the button and not grounded when it's not pressed; I don't have a Euro version in my hands at the moment to say if that's still the designator with the Unified boards, but I'm pretty sure it probably is). If that all seems right, switch from continuity to voltage measurements, turn the power on, and measure at J2 pin 3 -- you should see it go from ground when it's pressed to +V when it's not.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by NV » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:46 pm

arthurdent wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:14 pm
I received the correct IC today, got everything put together, powered it up, and all I get are the LED's for the slide pots illuminated, nothing else functions. I tried the various startup routines in the Klee manual - Manual Load Switch, Clock & Shift Register - and nothing works. I checked all of the IC's, they appear to be seated properly, even pulled the analogue/digital board off of the daughterboard and re-seated it, no change.

WHERE DO I START?
I'm assuming you have the LEDs set to be constantly on, in which case that just says that +12V and ground is getting to the LEDs. However if nothing else is working at all, then either power or ground probably isn't getting anywhere else.

As elmegil mentioned, checking for power and ground at the ICs would be the first step. I'm willing to bet one or both are missing, and likely lost somewhere in the transition between the daughterboard and AD board.

The daughterboard was designed to mate with the original boards, so there's a bit of routing to the initial power entry that can be confusing. To the left/right of the ribbon header are three different 2-pin headers, which on the bottom silkscreen are labeled Gnd, -12V, and +12V. These go down to the daughterboard, then power/ground are routed to the left side of the top (AD) board.

So after the manual's IC power/ground tests, check the 4-pin header on the middle-left of the top AD boards. Analogue J10 has 4 pins: the center two are analog and digital ground, top is +12V, and bottom is -12V. These are labeled on the silk screen. With the Klee plugged in and running check that +12V and -12V are present, and check using each of the ground pins one at a time (eg, red probe on +12V and black probe on first ground pin, then red probe on +12V and black on bottom second pin, then repeat with red on -12V). One pin is analogue ground and the other digital ground, so both need to be functioning as ground for +12V and -12V.

If you don't see either -12V or +12V, then check continuity. Unplug the Klee and then check for continuity between the - pin of the 4-pin header and the 2 pins on the left-most -12V (red stripe) side of the 10-pin ribbon box header for power entry. Then do the same for the + pin and the +12V side, then for each of the two ground pins and the center 6 pins of the box header.

I'm betting one of these will show a problem, so let us know what you find from here.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:21 pm

Thanks for the replies. I DID go through the check-up procedures in the manual starting on Page 93 to verify continuity for power and ground circuits - but I did this before I powered anything up to be sure there were no shorts and the A/D board was not connected to the Daughterboard. I'm now gonna go through the procedure with power to the module to be sure that I have the corrects levels everywhere. I have the manual as well as the schematics up on the screen right now so I'm set to go there. And YEAH, trying to understand the power routing between the A/D and Daughterboards is a little confusing, especially since you can't conveniently pull the front panel off and access the front side of the Daughterboard.

I triple-checked the LED's before I soldered them and they were correct but I just went ahead and checked them with a voltage source and they appear to be correct.

I did the continuity check with the Manual Load button and I get continuity between Digital Ground and Pin 3 of J2 so that appears to be OK.

I'm already getting tired from staring at this for the past 3 hours so I may not have any answers until tomorrow morning - I'll let you know.

Once again, THANKS.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:59 pm

VERY SCARRY!!
All of a sudden it's working and I didn't do anything other than move it around a bit. I had the module mounted in a 6U x 84HP box - homemade, powered by a uZeus feeding a couple of Synthrotek noise filtering bus boards; been using this box for over a year with no problems. I took the module out of the box, set it on my desk, also took the uZeus out and directed connected it to the Klee, powered up and everything works. So I put the Klee and the uZeus back into the box and it STILL WORKS! So maybe I have a bad/intermittent connection/cold joint/whatever that I wiggled enough to get things going. DUNNO, but I've powered down, handled/"wiggled" the assembly and powered it back up and it's still working, and I tried this 3 different times.

For now, I'm going to power it down, let it be for the night, and get back to it in the morning. I still plan to go through the thorough power/connection check to ensure that there is no problem. Maybe there was a meteor or comet that passed by......

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by elmegil » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 am

I would definitely look at your solder joints directly for evidence of cold solders, as you've correctly identified.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by NV » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:56 am

arthurdent wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:59 pm
VERY SCARRY!!
All of a sudden it's working and I didn't do anything other than move it around a bit. I had the module mounted in a 6U x 84HP box - homemade, powered by a uZeus feeding a couple of Synthrotek noise filtering bus boards; been using this box for over a year with no problems. I took the module out of the box, set it on my desk, also took the uZeus out and directed connected it to the Klee, powered up and everything works. So I put the Klee and the uZeus back into the box and it STILL WORKS! So maybe I have a bad/intermittent connection/cold joint/whatever that I wiggled enough to get things going. DUNNO, but I've powered down, handled/"wiggled" the assembly and powered it back up and it's still working, and I tried this 3 different times.

For now, I'm going to power it down, let it be for the night, and get back to it in the morning. I still plan to go through the thorough power/connection check to ensure that there is no problem. Maybe there was a meteor or comet that passed by......
The Klee is power hungry and has a habit of highlighting supplies running close to the rails or distribution issues, but if you plugged everything back in and saw no problems it sounds more like an intermittent joint. That has a chance of rearing its head again so it would be worth checking the joints at the ribbon input header, the three 2-pin headers around it (labeled -12V, Gnd, +12V on the back silkscreen), and at Analogue J10. Check both sides of the pins/sockets, J10 is at the edge and easy to see. The 2-pin headers are tucked in a bit further but still accessible with an iron and a steady hand without needing to remove the front panel.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:35 am

NV wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:56 am
arthurdent wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:59 pm
VERY SCARRY!!
All of a sudden it's working and I didn't do anything other than move it around a bit. I had the module mounted in a 6U x 84HP box - homemade, powered by a uZeus feeding a couple of Synthrotek noise filtering bus boards; been using this box for over a year with no problems. I took the module out of the box, set it on my desk, also took the uZeus out and directed connected it to the Klee, powered up and everything works. So I put the Klee and the uZeus back into the box and it STILL WORKS! So maybe I have a bad/intermittent connection/cold joint/whatever that I wiggled enough to get things going. DUNNO, but I've powered down, handled/"wiggled" the assembly and powered it back up and it's still working, and I tried this 3 different times.

For now, I'm going to power it down, let it be for the night, and get back to it in the morning. I still plan to go through the thorough power/connection check to ensure that there is no problem. Maybe there was a meteor or comet that passed by......
The Klee is power hungry and has a habit of highlighting supplies running close to the rails or distribution issues, but if you plugged everything back in and saw no problems it sounds more like an intermittent joint. That has a chance of rearing its head again so it would be worth checking the joints at the ribbon input header, the three 2-pin headers around it (labeled -12V, Gnd, +12V on the back silkscreen), and at Analogue J10. Check both sides of the pins/sockets, J10 is at the edge and easy to see. The 2-pin headers are tucked in a bit further but still accessible with an iron and a steady hand without needing to remove the front panel.
When I married the Daughterboard to the front panel, I went light on the solder for the two pushbuttons JUST IN CASE I had to pull the panel off for troubleshooting; it's just all of those nuts for the switches and jacks that will be a PITA. But as I was knocking back a couple of beers late last night and staring at this thing, I got to thinking that I may pull it apart just for the peace of mind. We'll see. I'm having some coffee now, gonna go to the park for my morning outdoor excursion and some fresh air, then come home and start looking at this with a clear head.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:07 pm

I spent the last 4 hours on this. I went over all of the connections, could not find any questionable solder joints. For some reason, synthCube supplies round machine-pin sockets for 3 of the IC's, I pulled these chips and re-seated them 'cause they didn't look quite right. I checked continuity unpowered, then powered up and verified that all of the voltages were where they were supposed to be. I re-installed the Klee in the cabinet, powered up, and went through the full "Bring-Up Procedure", everything is working fine. The stuff on the Random Function was a little hazy but it all works. Gonna take a break for lunch and then tackle the calibration this afternoon.

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by elmegil » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:56 pm

Machine pin (round) chip sockets are higher quality than the leaf spring types. Particularly if you are removing and re-inserting.

I have done repairs on PCBs with the leaf spring types where the spring was pushed in, and not actually making contact with the chips. I've also done repairs once where a builder who was really aggressive with the solder managed to fill the socket itself with solder to the point where you couldn't insert chips.

Of course this is my opinion :)

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Re: [Kits Available!] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard

Post by arthurdent » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:00 pm

elmegil wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:56 pm
Machine pin (round) chip sockets are higher quality than the leaf spring types. Particularly if you are removing and re-inserting.

I have done repairs on PCBs with the leaf spring types where the spring was pushed in, and not actually making contact with the chips. I've also done repairs once where a builder who was really aggressive with the solder managed to fill the socket itself with solder to the point where you couldn't insert chips.

Of course this is my opinion :)
There's a pretty heated discussion on machine pin versus leaf spring chip sockets somewhere in the DIY section, I think it might be in the TTSH build forum. I haven't worked enough on this kinda stuff to have a real feel for the difference, it just seemed that the IC's on the Klee didn't "fit as well" in the round sockets as the ones in the spring type. Could that have been my problem - I doubt it based on the symptoms. I just found it curious that they were there.

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