EMS like behavior in Euro

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Ichor&Gore
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EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Ichor&Gore » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:13 pm

I would like to build out a rack to fit a Halliburton case with two rows of 84 HP. I am fascinated by EMS. While I do not want to replicate exactly an EMS Synthi I would like to emulate the exotic textures/ sounds and controls. Pictured is a mockup of my idea of a Synthi like rack using mostly Doepfer. What am I missing, what would you expand on if your Synthi could do this or that?
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papz
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by papz » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:41 pm

What you're missing is a Synthi is much more than the sum of its parts and attempting to "emulate the exotic textures/ sounds and controls" or even only get anything close to its sound, behaviour and interface with any assembly of eurorack modules is a pointless waste of time, money and energy. Many tried, no one succeeded.
Last edited by papz on Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Yes Powder » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:47 pm

Feel like a big part of the Synthi "feel" is the patch matrix, which AFAIK there is no Euro equivalent to. Not that what you have there looks to be a bad system by any means. I would probably add another A183-1 though, as a big part of the patch matrix is being able to attenuate signals via differently resistive pins.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by tarandfeathers » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:04 pm

I basically agree with papz - though I would say that if you have a specific sound/patch made on an EMS that you want to reproduce without having to take an essentially irreplaceable synth out to a gig, that is somewhat doable. However, when building sounds from scratch it's unlikely that you will come up with anything in the same ballpark as you would using an actual EMS, in much the same way that you aren't going to play the same sort of thing when you pick up a mandolin as you would if you pick up a banjo - they might have the same or similar basic building blocks and functions, and one isn't necessarily better than the other, but they are a totally different playing experience.
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Ichor&Gore
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Ichor&Gore » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:38 pm

papz wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:41 pm
What you're missing is a Synthi is much more than the sum of its parts and attempting to "emulate the exotic textures/ sounds and controls" or even only get anything close to its sound, behaviour and interface with any assembly of eurorack modules is a pointless waste of time, money and energy. Many tried, no one succeeded.
I get it. I can not replicate the Synthi no matter how I try. What about the spirit? Surely that is not un obtainable?

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Ichor&Gore
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Ichor&Gore » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:40 pm

Yes Powder wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:47 pm
Feel like a big part of the Synthi "feel" is the patch matrix, which AFAIK there is no Euro equivalent to. Not that what you have there looks to be a bad system by any means. I would probably add another A183-1 though, as a big part of the patch matrix is being able to attenuate signals via differently resistive pins.
I appreciate the encouragement and direction.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by ersatzplanet » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:47 pm

I totally agree with Papz that trying to recreate the exact sound and experience of a EMS synth is a lost cause. With out the reverse topology and pin matrix of a EMS, you are loosing a lot right there. Also recreating ANY semi-modular with modular is fighting the circuit interactions that happen in an enclosed system where the sound sources were matched to the sound modifiers in ways that separate modules just don't replicate well. The ergonomic differences are obvious too.

To get a Synthi "work-alike", a system that has a closer functionality, I would change a lot of what you have shown above. I would get a bunch of modules from Analogue Systems. You can tell that those guys were heavily inspired by EMS stuff. They may not be exact clones, but many of their feature sets are very similar, and some are licensed copies (of course using newer components and being separate modules makes them NOT exact copies) of EMS gear. Get the RS-500E EMS Filter to replace the filters, the RS-501E Trapezoid Generator to replace the VCAs and EGs. Get the RS-95E to replace VCOs. You get the same wave shaping (added CV in), vernier frequency knobs, and frequency response adjustable close to the EMS (0.5v/oct instead of 0.32v/oct). The RS-85 VC LFO is also nice with similar wave shaping but added sync in.

The other modules can almost be any brand as far as I feel. Get a AC coupled Ring modulator, a decent Joystick (the planar is a good choice) and a good input module for external sources. Of course AS makes all of these, but here in the US, they are more expensive than Doepfer to other brands. They do make a good looking Pitch to voltage converter envelope generator external processor (RS-35) and a nice reverb (RS-310).

But you have to understand - THIS WILL NOT BE A SYNTHI. Without the patch matrix, the interactions of the modules to each other, the ergonomic form factor (one cannot underestimate the effect of this, the Synthi-A is un-arrayed in my mind), the general layout, you might as well go for a virtual instrument.
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Ichor&Gore
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Ichor&Gore » Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:20 pm

I am not looking to replicate a Synthi. The spirit, the experimental nature, the wildness and rhythmic noise, yes. I posted here for those who know the Synthi a synth I doubt I will ever know whether due to the rarity, price or long long wait lists. Please, stop telling me that this will never be a Synthi, don't I know it. Synthi owners are as clear about that as if I was an American in another country without knowing the language. If I wanted this to even begin to be a Synthi I would have included the AS modules. I happen to own the Doepfer A-102 and I love it, I love the scream, the whine and the disaster it creates. I merely want to push that further in the spirit of your beloved Synthi.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Chopper » Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:24 pm

The spring reverb is a huge part of the sound....
The feedback from the internal speakers exiting the springs as well.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Luap » Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:48 pm

I think Papz was a tad harsh, but essentially correct.
Still, it is certainly possible to get into similar sonic territory with Eurorack. And yes, a real spring reverb is essential!

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by jsheaucsb » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:05 am

Syntrx
https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/standal ... rx/syntrx/

It will deliver better than any composite selection of modules. Has the pin matrix and the spring tank. Pricey perhaps, but certainly a bargain compared to the second hand EMS prices. A standalone instrument in the spirit of the Synthi.

Otherwise, perhaps some combo of the old analogue systems stuff to get at the flavor [trapezoid generator, oscillators]

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by MindMachine » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:08 am

Head to the Eurorack forum and check the great number of similar queries.

Also check the Erica Syntrx. Might be less money than the rig you showed.
FS: Pedals and Euro modules, Delta Labs, dotcom Q128 for 37.00
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=233636&p=3287718&h ... e#p3287718

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by klang » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:27 pm

Synthi is magic because of its quality of its sound , the insane gain stages between sections , the spring and so on.
Last edited by klang on Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by southphillysynths » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:25 pm

klang wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:27 pm
Synthi is magic because of its quality of components , sound , the insane gain stages between sections , the spring and so on.
:hihi: quality components :hihi:
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Drmdmamd » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:31 pm

As a recent Syntrx owner I’ll chime in and say that I’ve been blown away by the experimental patching experience and sound. It’s one of the most fun synths I’ve used. The UI is brilliant.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by klang » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:58 am

To the initial poster Analogue systems would be an obvious choice and matrix wise you want one that can handle a lot of audio chaos or maybe does not have digital bollocks happening in the audio path , Ajh modules might be worth a look also as the sound of them reminds me of the quality of sound of the Ems , vintage ? whatever .

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by beyourdog » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:18 am

Ichor&Gore wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:13 pm
I would like to build out a rack to fit a Halliburton case with two rows of 84 HP. I am fascinated by EMS. While I do not want to replicate exactly an EMS Synthi I would like to emulate the exotic textures/ sounds and controls. Pictured is a mockup of my idea of a Synthi like rack using mostly Doepfer. What am I missing, what would you expand on if your Synthi could do this or that?
I've tried countless times with different brands and especially Analogue systems...then I got a Synthi.

You will not get near the feel, sound and ergonomics unless you get a real one or the Behringer clone ;-) this is just not really the same thing, you can dream it but cannot be it...

So this is a pointless exercise, such as trying to do polyphonic with Euro or patching it back with your ex wife or thinking Weed makes you more productive...

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by beyourdog » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:20 am

papz wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:41 pm
What you're missing is a Synthi is much more than the sum of its parts and attempting to "emulate the exotic textures/ sounds and controls" or even only get anything close to its sound, behaviour and interface with any assembly of eurorack modules is a pointless waste of time, money and energy. Many tried, no one succeeded.
Exactement...

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Portabella » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:40 am

papz wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:41 pm
What you're missing is a Synthi is much more than the sum of its parts and attempting to "emulate the exotic textures/ sounds and controls" or even only get anything close to its sound, behaviour and interface with any assembly of eurorack modules is a pointless waste of time, money and energy. Many tried, no one succeeded.

The thread starter even stated he DOES NOT want to replicate an EMS .. he asked for EMS-like behaviour ...
Why do you always have to be negative? yeah, we get it .. you're mister EMS and you know it all better than anything else.

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by revtor » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:33 am

erased unnecessary comments.
Adding more modules will only get you further from the spirit of the EMS. I’m surprised this needs to be stated.

You can approach any rack you build with the “spirit” of experimentation... and in the absence of the matrix / unique circuitry / controls, that will be the most important part - your mindset and patching approach.

If there was a simple answer, you’ll have read it somewhere on this forum years ago. Don’t really need the anti-American comments either.
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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by glecko » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:54 pm

You must know of analogue systems in the UK. They make all the modules to build as close to a synth as there is in modular. They have several modules licensed through EMS

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Re: EMS like behavior in Euro

Post by Voltcontrol » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:37 am

I think if might be worth a punt to ask this in the euro section, as there might be folks looking there who don't read this section.

Yes, the EMS is special as a system and cannot be replicated easily as a whole in Euro.
that said, why not experiment with a pin-matrix. :)

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/future-so ... pin-matrix
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/instruo-lion


Disclaimer, below is mildly inspired by, nothing more.
Image
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1444824
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