ANALOGUE WAVEFORM GENERATOR MODEL 25S

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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REcDeso12oi
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Post by REcDeso12oi » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:34 am

Roman, PM's sent
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http://chasedeso.com

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flabby
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Post by flabby » Thu May 04, 2017 5:10 pm

Maybe a dumb question, but how does this track keyboard Pitch CV? Does the attenuator need to be set to a certain position? What does it track 1v/oct or 1.2?

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jvt
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Post by jvt » Wed May 10, 2017 9:49 am

Anyone been in contact with Roman in the last several days?

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phonkmeister
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Post by phonkmeister » Wed May 10, 2017 1:09 pm

I guess he's pretty busy with Deckard's dream these days.

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Wed May 10, 2017 1:53 pm

flabby wrote:Maybe a dumb question, but how does this track keyboard Pitch CV? Does the attenuator need to be set to a certain position? What does it track 1v/oct or 1.2?
roman_f wrote:
Jamesf1 wrote:I am also potentially interested in one of these units.

Can you please let me know if it accurately tracks 1.2v per octave. Presumably with the attenuator turned fully to the right given that there is no dedicated keyboard input?

Cheers.
yes!

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:04 pm

hi all- i recently got my 25S from Roman, but the Timbre settings seem a little off, especially the High Order section of the PO. when i turn High Order, the sound is thinned out- nowhere near what my 259r sounds like. also, when Timber is completely off (CCW), a CV into the High Order input changes the sound- my understanding is it shouldn't at all, which is the case with my 259r as well.

if i feed an audio rate CV into the Symmetry input, i can hear the effect as well (with Timbre turned off), but no nearly as drastic as High Order.

anyone have any tips on calibration? i bought this to replace my 259r and gain a space, but until i figure out if this is normal behavior, i'll hold on to my 259.

thanks,
davis

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auxren
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Post by auxren » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:45 pm

I just built a 25S and calibrated it yesterday. There is a trim pot on the back that says Timbre. Adjust that to taste.
memes_33 wrote:hi all- i recently got my 25S from Roman, but the Timbre settings seem a little off, especially the High Order section of the PO. when i turn High Order, the sound is thinned out- nowhere near what my 259r sounds like. also, when Timber is completely off (CCW), a CV into the High Order input changes the sound- my understanding is it shouldn't at all, which is the case with my 259r as well.

if i feed an audio rate CV into the Symmetry input, i can hear the effect as well (with Timbre turned off), but no nearly as drastic as High Order.

anyone have any tips on calibration? i bought this to replace my 259r and gain a space, but until i figure out if this is normal behavior, i'll hold on to my 259.

thanks,
davis

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:42 pm

auxren wrote:I just built a 25S and calibrated it yesterday. There is a trim pot on the back that says Timbre. Adjust that to taste.
okay thanks- i only remember seeing an FM trim pot on the back, but i'll check again when home.

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captnapalm
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Post by captnapalm » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:53 pm

There are also several trimmers on the top board, accessible through small holes in the panel. The skirts of the two large tune knobs obscure some of them.

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Post by TMortigan » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:13 pm

PM sent, Roman.

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:20 pm

captnapalm wrote:There are also several trimmers on the top board, accessible through small holes in the panel. The skirts of the two large tune knobs obscure some of them.
oh dang- i just looked at the DIY hub panel and it looks like there are at least three trimpots per oscillator frequency knob! i'm sure these are well documented on roman's site :despair: :doh: :bang:

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auxren
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Post by auxren » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:49 pm

memes_33 wrote:
captnapalm wrote:There are also several trimmers on the top board, accessible through small holes in the panel. The skirts of the two large tune knobs obscure some of them.
oh dang- i just looked at the DIY hub panel and it looks like there are at least three trimpots per oscillator frequency knob! i'm sure these are well documented on roman's site :despair: :doh: :bang:
The trim pots under the front panel are the same as a 259's. http://www.synthfool.com/docs/Buchla/Bu ... 9panel.jpg
Pretty much setting the range and the tracking. I was intimidated by the number of trim pots on the front, but, I was able to get some seriously accurate tracking and it was a quick process. Also, when my knob is at 27.5Hz, I get 27.5Hz and same for all the values around the panel now.

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Selador
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Post by Selador » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:17 pm

auxren wrote:The trim pots under the front panel are the same as a 259's. http://www.synthfool.com/docs/Buchla/Bu ... 9panel.jpg
Sorry off topic, but bless Kevin Lightner's contributions to everything, and I'm so happy to continue, and will probably always continue, to see his resources used here and elsewhere to help nerds like us
Born like this, into this, as chalk faces smile

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amnesia
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Post by amnesia » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:21 pm

Can someone do a vid comparing the S to 259r

tmeade
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Post by tmeade » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:54 pm

amnesia wrote:Can someone do a vid comparing the S to 259r
Todd did exactly this and posted it in this same thread about a page back. Have a look.

I too have an issue with the high order control basically cutting out the sound. Hopefully it is just a matter of calibration on those timbre trimmers. Thanks for the advise.

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:11 pm

auxren wrote:The trim pots under the front panel are the same as a 259's. http://www.synthfool.com/docs/Buchla/Bu ... 9panel.jpg
Pretty much setting the range and the tracking. I was intimidated by the number of trim pots on the front, but, I was able to get some seriously accurate tracking and it was a quick process. Also, when my knob is at 27.5Hz, I get 27.5Hz and same for all the values around the panel now.
i haven't messed around with these yet, but it sounds/looks like they are specific to the oscillator and not really relevant to the timbre settings.

if this thing is properly calibrated, the timbre sounds are nowhere near the 259r sounds.

if it is not properly calibrated, it's pretty annoying to receive an uncalibrated module.

either way, buyer's remorse.

tmeade
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Post by tmeade » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:26 pm

I had a go with the timbre trimmer but it didn't help with the high order. Any other ideas?

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APETECHNOLOGY
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Post by APETECHNOLOGY » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:01 am

tmeade wrote:I had a go with the timbre trimmer but it didn't help with the high order. Any other ideas?
the timbre trim pot only adjusts when the timbre pot knob starts to fold.
i think your problem lies in the selection of the 2n3958/ ls3958.
its the 6 legged silver guy.top right corner i think...?
thats the part that makes or breaks the timbre section.
when i built my 2, i only had 4 ls3958 to choose from, i choose the 2 "nicest" sounding ones. not very scientific! but thats what i did.
one of the parts sounded very very weak, i did not test the idss.and i already used that part in another build. a 284 where it was not critical.
i have 20 more ls3958 on order, when i get them i will try them on the 25s and report my findings!
hope this helps!
:dizzy:

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Post by batchas » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:36 am

EDIT: deleted cause I promised to myself not to comment on a forum when I'm pissed off.

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Post by cygmu » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:26 am

APETECHNOLOGY wrote:
tmeade wrote:I had a go with the timbre trimmer but it didn't help with the high order. Any other ideas?
the timbre trim pot only adjusts when the timbre pot knob starts to fold.
i think your problem lies in the selection of the 2n3958/ ls3958.
its the 6 legged silver guy.top right corner i think...?
thats the part that makes or breaks the timbre section.
when i built my 2, i only had 4 ls3958 to choose from, i choose the 2 "nicest" sounding ones. not very scientific! but thats what i did.
one of the parts sounded very very weak, i did not test the idss.and i already used that part in another build. a 284 where it was not critical.
i have 20 more ls3958 on order, when i get them i will try them on the 25s and report my findings!
hope this helps!
:dizzy:
Yes, as djangosfire wrote:
you NEED to to have a huge pile of LS3958's on hand.... this is the component that will make the timbre shaping so great... and it often is about every one in ten that will be the winner.
You can find the original post here:
viewtopic.php?p=2347206#2347206

It's a shame that this kind of information doesn't make it into the build docs.

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doepferiano
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Post by doepferiano » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:01 am

do you solder your LS3958 when doing tests for the better one ?

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:43 am

tmeade wrote:I had a go with the timbre trimmer but it didn't help with the high order. Any other ideas?
i messed around quite a bit last night with this as well, but nothing seemed to make the high order sound anything but thin & frail. 2n3958 are $13.53 each on mouser, so it would cost me almost $150 more to get 10 of them to test, not to mention having to unsolder the one that's in there, which i honestly don't feel confident in doing as i've messed up desoldering components before.

so either i spend an extra $150 on components that might improve the sound, as well as risk fucking up the module, or i just suck it up and keep a module i spent a bunch of money on that has a mediocre timber section. :bang:

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Post by mritenburg » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:20 pm

memes_33 wrote:
tmeade wrote:I had a go with the timbre trimmer but it didn't help with the high order. Any other ideas?
i messed around quite a bit last night with this as well, but nothing seemed to make the high order sound anything but thin & frail. 2n3958 are $13.53 each on mouser, so it would cost me almost $150 more to get 10 of them to test, not to mention having to unsolder the one that's in there, which i honestly don't feel confident in doing as i've messed up desoldering components before.

so either i spend an extra $150 on components that might improve the sound, as well as risk fucking up the module, or i just suck it up and keep a module i spent a bunch of money on that has a mediocre timber section. :bang:
Lowgain built an adapter board to use a SMT tranny in place of the 2n3958. I have two 259r's that use the adapter board. They work perfectly.
Disappointment with any module is usually a failure of imagination.

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APETECHNOLOGY
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Post by APETECHNOLOGY » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:24 pm

hello memes_33,

they have ls3958 here for $5

https://www.trendsetter.com/Transistor- ... 1%206l.htm

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memes_33
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Post by memes_33 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:41 pm

APETECHNOLOGY wrote:hello memes_33,

they have ls3958 here for $5

https://www.trendsetter.com/Transistor- ... 1%206l.htm
awesome, thanks. that's an easier pill to swallow for sure. ebay has a bunch of cheap options but i have no experience distinguishing fakes from real deals.

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