MARF 248r source code available

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taijmanman
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by taijmanman » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:37 am

Thank you stevenb.
Installed.
I also save does not work.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:40 am

batchas wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:47 pm
msprigings wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:37 pm
Drillionaire wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:24 am
If a build for the Rev1 units gets made I would be happy to help test and contribute to the code base.
The bugs for v1 are related to saving correct?
Exactly.
Save is not working. Sometimes all LEDs will lit on when loading a preset. Sometimes you'll be able to go back to where you were (last settings), sometimes not.
I tried also with B248-v1.2.hex version. Same issue. Such a shame.

Is save/recall working on Rev 2? Is it something changed in the circuit, or is it solved via firmware if it works in Rev 2? If solved via firmware, than it should be easy to implement for Rev 1 248r.
Save is working in V2.5, at least for the Voltage sliders. In order to get it working I had to disable the reading of DIP switch 3 and force it high in the code. This same issue is the cause of why you have to jumper Boot0 to Vdd to program the STM32 device. There's a GPIO issue here that I'm trying to track down right now that will hopefully fix those issues. I'd try, just for fun, try flipping DIP switch 3 to see what happens on a V1. taijmanman, can you try that also?

Oh, and Drillionaire, I'll get that V1 build working for you as soon as I can.

Steven

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by jimfowler » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:22 am

At the risk of muddying the waters, why in the hell is DIP switch 3 even a thing? I mean why is saving only the switch positions (but not the slider positions) an option? Would it make more sense to simply have "save" always mean that it saves everything and possibly re-purpose DIP switch 3 for something else (or nothing at all)?
Last edited by jimfowler on Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by batchas » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:40 am

stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:40 am
Save is working in V2.5, at least for the Voltage sliders. In order to get it working I had to disable the reading of DIP switch 3 and force it high in the code.
(...)
try flipping DIP switch 3 to see what happens on a V1. taijmanman, can you try that also?
When I was testing I concentrated on DIP switch pos 1. So I tested with ON & OFF, without any influence on the bug.
I thought pos 2 and 3 were only about the voltage scale, not the way it saves.
So it means I'll check again as I remember setting it to DIP pos 2 ON and DIP pos 3 OFF, believing it was only related to 1.2V/oct.

EDIT:
Okay I decided to test quickly the V1.
Ther'e no difference related to save/recall when I change pos 1 or 2 or 3 in any combination. It is not saving or recalling.
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by anto32 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:44 pm

248 rev1 + expander :
Save/Load is working as expected here. I did'nt try all slots yet, but parameters are saved and loaded. Firmware v1.2
I can try to tests other functions if you like

Edit : Save and Recall works but when recall with DIP 1 = ON, CV sliders are not responding (not all of them). They stay on the recorded value.
Please confirm this behaviour if you have a 248 rev1
Last edited by anto32 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:46 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by weedywhizz » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:39 pm

As mentioned earlier I made a new revision of PCB2. Got the new boards today and finished building them 3 hours later.
What are we trying to solve the CV jitter problem beside the other software issues.
Whats included in the new revision ? Its a 4-layer board with a separate ground and 3.3V layer + a few smaller fixes like more distance from the cable connections points to the elco caps. I will just flip the direction of the cable connection terminal on my next revision.

Any success getting the CV jitter issue fixed with the new boards ? NO.

I'll have to check a few more things but also suggest looking at the issue on the software-side as Dave noted on his website.
Btw: The STM32 cards got a separate ground layer too.

Cheers
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by weedywhizz » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:00 pm

weedywhizz wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:39 pm
As mentioned earlier I made a new revision of PCB2. Got the new boards today and finished building them 3 hours later.
What are we trying to solve the CV jitter problem beside the other software issues.
Whats included in the new revision ? Its a 4-layer board with a separate ground and 3.3V layer + a few smaller fixes like more distance from the cable connections points to the elco caps. I will just flip the direction of the cable connection terminal on my next revision.

Any success getting the CV jitter issue fixed with the new boards ? NO.

I'll have to check a few more things but also suggest looking at the issue on the software-side as Dave noted on his website.
Btw: The STM32 cards got a separate ground layer too.

Cheers
Steffen
EDIT: When looking at the scope it looks kinda ugly but it seems jitter is less noticeable when listening to a patched 259.
I'll dig more into it tomorrow and will do a direct comparison with the 2.1 boards.
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by batchas » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:06 pm

anto32 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:44 pm
248 rev1 + expander :
Save/Load is working as expected here. I did'nt try on all slots but on 3 memories, parameters are saved and loaded. Firmware v1.2
You can try to tests other functions if you like
If it works on yours, either it exists 2 differents v1.2 firmware or there's something different on the hardware. A component, a connection? Cause It never worked here.
I'm really curious.
If you have a video, even in bad quality to see how it's possible to save and recall, I'd be very thankful.

EDIT: maybe we should split threads between rev1 and later revs... so it's easy to follow for users who did not follow from the start. Maybe. Just a suggestion. It does not bother me pers.
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:40 pm

EDIT: maybe we should split threads between rev1 and later revs... so it's easy to follow for users who did not follow from the start. Maybe. Just a suggestion. It does not bother me pers.
Yes please, moving it would be good. I'm already seeing confusion about which version is being used.

Steven

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by EdBrock » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:02 pm

My 248 rev1 + expander also works with Save/Load. It has been a while so I am not sure which software version I used, but I didn't do anything special.
I thought I would build a few modules to see if I liked it and guess what happened......

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by weedywhizz » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:30 pm

A fresh BOM for those who want to build a rev2.1s:
https://www.samodular.com/wp-content/up ... .1_BOM.pdf
https://www.samodular.com/wp-content/up ... 8_BOM.xlsx
Only forgot the DIP sockets.
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by batchas » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:09 am

EdBrock wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:02 pm
My 248 rev1 + expander also works with Save/Load.
Quick update:
anto32 kindly helped me solve the save/load issue. He sent me the B248-v1.2.hex he is using and guess what?
IT WORKS NOW :despair:

Save and load work on my Rev 1***

I used a version named B248-v1.2.hex too, prob. found here on muffwiggler years ago...
But the one I got from anto32 is obv. different!

***EDIT: though when you recall a preset, you can't edit anymore the slider values (the pitch on each step).
It was mentionned a few years back already (and it seems I forgot that at some point I was back then able to save/recall presets...).
It would be great if this was possible.
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by cygmu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:34 am

Inspired by the progress here (thanks again!) I finally built up my MARF. I think it is working, running stevenb's latest released firmware, though the thing is a bit confusing so I can't be 100% sure... There are some weird issues on mine which seem to relate to grounding -- switches occasionally go nuts when I activate them with my fingers, if the module is not secured properly in the boat. But I think those are just my issues.

For the CV jitter, my hypothesis is that the issue is noise on the ADC when it is reading the sliders. I think it is the case that if I load the voltages from a preset, the CV does not wobble around. If so then it must be the slider reading, rather than the output stage, that is the issue. After loading a preset, the slider readings are not used until they are reactivated, which happens when the slider matches the preset voltage. (Incidentally, this is a terrible way to reactivate the sliders. How about you slide all the way to the top and then to the bottom to reactivate, something like that? Could readily be done in the software I think.)

Would someone else like to check this please? Set up an output voltage, listen to it or scope it, save it to a preset. Then move the slider to a different value, and load the preset back again. The output voltage should go back to the one stored. Is it wobbly now, or has it cleaned up?

The ADCs on STM32F4 are notoriously jittery. Add to this the fact that there are relatively long traces leading to the STM pins, thanks to the daughterboard configuration, and you have a recipe for jittery readings. One remedy would be to add more software filtering, which will introduce a bit of lag but may be a price worth paying for usable CV. The filter at the moment takes an average of ten readings. One option would be to increase the number of readings. Alternatively a two-pole FIR filter might do the trick. Another thing to try, probably in addition, would be to add further hardware filtering at the input -- an RC filter, preferably close to the STM pins. I am not sure how good we can get this thing but I'd be surprised if it can't be improved.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by maxl0rd » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:05 am

cygmu

Just chiming in to verify that everything you wrote is exactly right.

When I get a v2 built up, I'm going to go to war against the noise because it drives me crazy. There are many software tricks we can try to improve it, but the hardware design is less than optimal.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:35 am

cygmu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:34 am
Inspired by the progress here (thanks again!) I finally built up my MARF. I think it is working, running stevenb's latest released firmware, though the thing is a bit confusing so I can't be 100% sure... There are some weird issues on mine which seem to relate to grounding -- switches occasionally go nuts when I activate them with my fingers, if the module is not secured properly in the boat. But I think those are just my issues.
I see that also. Sometimes the sequencer runs when I touch a control. If things are fastened down, not always the case in my situation, these occurrences are reduced.
cygmu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:34 am
For the CV jitter, my hypothesis is that the issue is noise on the ADC when it is reading the sliders. I think it is the case that if I load the voltages from a preset, the CV does not wobble around. If so then it must be the slider reading, rather than the output stage, that is the issue. After loading a preset, the slider readings are not used until they are reactivated, which happens when the slider matches the preset voltage. (Incidentally, this is a terrible way to reactivate the sliders. How about you slide all the way to the top and then to the bottom to reactivate, something like that? Could readily be done in the software I think.)
The problem with having the slider catch up at the top of its travel is the glitch when it switches to being live if the preset value is low. Max has suggested that instead of looking for an exact match, enable the slider when it gets "close" to the preset value. This might produce less of a glitch. Worth a look.
cygmu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:34 am
Would someone else like to check this please? Set up an output voltage, listen to it or scope it, save it to a preset. Then move the slider to a different value, and load the preset back again. The output voltage should go back to the one stored. Is it wobbly now, or has it cleaned up?

The ADCs on STM32F4 are notoriously jittery. Add to this the fact that there are relatively long traces leading to the STM pins, thanks to the daughterboard configuration, and you have a recipe for jittery readings. One remedy would be to add more software filtering, which will introduce a bit of lag but may be a price worth paying for usable CV. The filter at the moment takes an average of ten readings. One option would be to increase the number of readings. Alternatively a two-pole FIR filter might do the trick. Another thing to try, probably in addition, would be to add further hardware filtering at the input -- an RC filter, preferably close to the STM pins. I am not sure how good we can get this thing but I'd be surprised if it can't be improved.
You are correct. The noise when reading a slider value is a big part of it. Another part is the switching in and out of the alternate functions for the GPIO, which generates noise also. I noticed that there was excessive reading of the DIP switch , which causes a switch to an alternate function (analog in vs out). Read it once at startup and save the values to a structure. No need to read it again and again. I'll make that change and see if it helps. I did an experiment where I captured the raw value from one of the sliders over time while the sequence was running.The slider was at the bottom of its travel. The values ranged from 20 to 1110, with most values in the range of 4-8. We're trying out a "trimmed average" averaging scheme where the outliers get tossed and your only average the middle values. Initial tests show that it helps, but not completely. I looked into having more samples to average from, but it really made very little difference.

Thanks so much for looking into this. The more help the better.

I've just hooked up an expander. Lots of fun to be had there :-p

Steven

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by EdBrock » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:37 am

batchas wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:09 am
EdBrock wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:02 pm
My 248 rev1 + expander also works with Save/Load.
Quick update:
anto32 kindly helped me solve the save/load issue. He sent me the B248-v1.2.hex he is using and guess what?
IT WORKS NOW :despair:

Save and load work on my Rev 1***

I used a version named B248-v1.2.hex too, prob. found here on muffwiggler years ago...
But the one I got from anto32 is obv. different!

***EDIT: though when you recall a preset, you can't edit anymore the slider values (the pitch on each step).
It was mentionned a few years back already (and it seems I forgot that at some point I was back then able to save/recall presets...).
It would be great if this was possible.
If you move the sliders up and down you should be able to change the value. Sometimes it takes a bit of up/down to get them going again.
I thought I would build a few modules to see if I liked it and guess what happened......

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:40 am

EdBrock wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:37 am
batchas wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:09 am
EdBrock wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:02 pm
My 248 rev1 + expander also works with Save/Load.
Quick update:
anto32 kindly helped me solve the save/load issue. He sent me the B248-v1.2.hex he is using and guess what?
IT WORKS NOW :despair:

Save and load work on my Rev 1***

I used a version named B248-v1.2.hex too, prob. found here on muffwiggler years ago...
But the one I got from anto32 is obv. different!

***EDIT: though when you recall a preset, you can't edit anymore the slider values (the pitch on each step).
It was mentionned a few years back already (and it seems I forgot that at some point I was back then able to save/recall presets...).
It would be great if this was possible.
If you move the sliders up and down you should be able to change the value. Sometimes it takes a bit of up/down to get them going again.
Yes, that's due to the noise. The code is looking for an exact value match before the slider goes live. Due to noise you may never get that match :-)

Steven

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by cygmu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:57 am

stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:35 am
I did an experiment where I captured the raw value from one of the sliders over time while the sequence was running.The slider was at the bottom of its travel. The values ranged from 20 to 1110, with most values in the range of 4-8.
I think there must be a typo in the above -- is there? Whatever it is it seems like the ADC noise is absolutely ridiculous.

It should be possible to make an alternative daughterboard for the MCU which at least brings all the decoupling, the crystal and the RC filter for the ADC input (assuming there is one -- haven't traced it out) right next to the pins. Surface mount parts for minimum inductance. Then just don't populate those components on the original PCB and jumper any series resistors etc; I don't think you would need any trace cuts.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 pm

cygmu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:57 am
stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:35 am
I did an experiment where I captured the raw value from one of the sliders over time while the sequence was running.The slider was at the bottom of its travel. The values ranged from 20 to 1110, with most values in the range of 4-8.
I think there must be a typo in the above -- is there? Whatever it is it seems like the ADC noise is absolutely ridiculous.

It should be possible to make an alternative daughterboard for the MCU which at least brings all the decoupling, the crystal and the RC filter for the ADC input (assuming there is one -- haven't traced it out) right next to the pins. Surface mount parts for minimum inductance. Then just don't populate those components on the original PCB and jumper any series resistors etc; I don't think you would need any trace cuts.
Nope, no typo.
There are a couple of documents from STMicro that describe suggested practices to achieve good ADC performance, both hardware and software. PM me with your email address and I'll send them your way.

Steven

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by tarandfeathers » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:02 pm

stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 pm
cygmu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:57 am
stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:35 am
I did an experiment where I captured the raw value from one of the sliders over time while the sequence was running.The slider was at the bottom of its travel. The values ranged from 20 to 1110, with most values in the range of 4-8.
I think there must be a typo in the above -- is there? Whatever it is it seems like the ADC noise is absolutely ridiculous.

It should be possible to make an alternative daughterboard for the MCU which at least brings all the decoupling, the crystal and the RC filter for the ADC input (assuming there is one -- haven't traced it out) right next to the pins. Surface mount parts for minimum inductance. Then just don't populate those components on the original PCB and jumper any series resistors etc; I don't think you would need any trace cuts.
Nope, no typo.
There are a couple of documents from STMicro that describe suggested practices to achieve good ADC performance, both hardware and software. PM me with your email address and I'll send them your way.

Steven
That seems extreme, even so. Doesn't this design use CD405x switches to scan through the controls - is it possible that the control of the switches is poorly synchronised with the read of the ADC - either sometimes reading the incorrect control, or reading too soon after switching the external logic - would be interesting to work out the cutoff of whatever filtering is on the ADC input and compare that to the frequency samples are taken at, maybe there is insufficient settling time?
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:19 pm

tarandfeathers wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:02 pm
stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 pm
cygmu wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:57 am
stevenb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:35 am
I did an experiment where I captured the raw value from one of the sliders over time while the sequence was running.The slider was at the bottom of its travel. The values ranged from 20 to 1110, with most values in the range of 4-8.
I think there must be a typo in the above -- is there? Whatever it is it seems like the ADC noise is absolutely ridiculous.

It should be possible to make an alternative daughterboard for the MCU which at least brings all the decoupling, the crystal and the RC filter for the ADC input (assuming there is one -- haven't traced it out) right next to the pins. Surface mount parts for minimum inductance. Then just don't populate those components on the original PCB and jumper any series resistors etc; I don't think you would need any trace cuts.
Nope, no typo.
There are a couple of documents from STMicro that describe suggested practices to achieve good ADC performance, both hardware and software. PM me with your email address and I'll send them your way.

Steven

That seems extreme, even so. Doesn't this design use CD405x switches to scan through the controls - is it possible that the control of the switches is poorly synchronised with the read of the ADC - either sometimes reading the incorrect control, or reading too soon after switching the external logic - would be interesting to work out the cutoff of whatever filtering is on the ADC input and compare that to the frequency samples are taken at, maybe there is insufficient settling time?
Excellent thought. There are issues with the Expander putting data on the bus at the wrong time causing some issues. The time sider from step 17 affects the pitch as well as the timing of the step. I am just starting to look into that. While I'm there I'll look at the settling time (I'm sure there's a spec in the stm32f405 reference document ) and we'll see.However, there's a little test I did a while back:
stevenb wrote: I changed the code that does the averaging of fader values to always return a “25”. When I feed CV out to an oscillator (digital oscillator,, so it is stable in terms of frequency stability) the pitch drifts about 1cent whereas if I used the values read from a pot, with no stage advancement the pitch drifts about 10-12cents. Pretty interesting. In the case of the fixed value the code was still running, everything was the same up to the signal feeding the DAC
That makes me wonder about the settling time theory though. I was still reading the sliders, just ignoring the returned value

Steven

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by PacificState » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:28 am

Thanks so much for making this available! I've just built my MARF and flashed the latest version of the firmware down.

One thing, though - I can't seem to enter the calibration mode; if I turn on the power holding the left advance switch down, I don't get cycling LEDs. I'm not super familiar with the unit, but it otherwise appears to be working (including the advance switch itself) - any ideas?

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by cygmu » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:17 am

PacificState wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:28 am
Thanks so much for making this available! I've just built my MARF and flashed the latest version of the firmware down.

One thing, though - I can't seem to enter the calibration mode; if I turn on the power holding the left advance switch down, I don't get cycling LEDs. I'm not super familiar with the unit, but it otherwise appears to be working (including the advance switch itself) - any ideas?
Mine is the same -- glad to hear I am not the only one.

I think there's a bug in the code and I'm discussing with Steven and Max.

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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by stevenb » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:46 pm

cygmu wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:17 am
PacificState wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:28 am
Thanks so much for making this available! I've just built my MARF and flashed the latest version of the firmware down.

One thing, though - I can't seem to enter the calibration mode; if I turn on the power holding the left advance switch down, I don't get cycling LEDs. I'm not super familiar with the unit, but it otherwise appears to be working (including the advance switch itself) - any ideas?
Mine is the same -- glad to hear I am not the only one.

I think there's a bug in the code and I'm discussing with Steven and Max.
Calibration is now fixed, again :-) MARF v2.5a8 for your testing pleasure...
MARF v2.5a8.bin.zip
Steven
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Re: MARF 248r source code available

Post by PacificState » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:06 pm

And I have cycling LEDs - thanks so much for the the turnaround!

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