Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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OscillatorScream
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Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by OscillatorScream » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:22 pm

:goo:
Hi there , new here but I'm deep in the rabbit hole of eurorack and buchla. I'm wondering some things about Serge.
I've already got an easel and a mantis case with some eurorack.

Everything has tapped me out financially, as these things do, but the GAS is strong. I keep watching Meng Qi with the Serge and Logan from LowGain electronics too. Now I want to diy some Serge stuff. I'd also like to diy some buchla.

Looking for psu for Serge. What's the cheapest way to power some Serge stuff? Also, some cheap Serge builds. Maybe CGS, as I've had a Ken Stone utility lfo for euro and I miss it.

I have no business interested in such expensive hobbies, but I'm willing to diy and buy broken stuff.

How do you all get started into Serge?
Thank you in advance for advice.

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the bad producer
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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by the bad producer » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:50 pm

Cheapest is probably DIY CGS, or maybe Elby (EuroSerge). Serge is +/-12V PSU, so any cheapo eurorack psu will work and you can get distro boards to fit. If you are going really cheap you can make your own panels by chopping up metal and paper, or pen, or errr typewriter like I used to do:

Image

Though I do now sell panels for other DIYers that are a bit more pro!

Image

OscillatorScream
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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by OscillatorScream » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:42 pm

Wow. Those panels you made for other people are beautiful. I dig the typewriter style too. Sooooo... I'm getting a bunch of working and some not fully built CGS and Serge modules. Someone's random diy stuff. Working pcbs. No panels. I'm new to this so let me see if I got this straight.
When talking about Serge and CGS Serge style stuff,

You build the PCB.
You make or acquire a panel.
You screw the banana Jack's to the panel. Then you wire the Jack's and solder them to the appropriate place on the board?
The pcbs don't actually fasten to the panel?
How does that work?

I'd love to chat with you so I can get a better understanding of how Serge Diy and paneling goes.
Thank you.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by ashleym » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:57 pm

It varies. Some use the pots to secure the PCBs with extra direct fixings from PCB to panel as well. The bananas will be screwed to the panel and linked to the PCB by a piece of wire. This is because the socket will flex a bit every time you use it. A direct to PCB connection would soon lift the track.

For the full Serge effect you need 4U and :sadbanana: accept no substitute.

Also look at slightlynasty.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by Jonny » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:06 pm

There are a few ways to attach the individual pcbs to the panel. If you're using the loudest warning format, there is a bracket you can use (clee bracket). If doing a full panel, CGS91 Mounting rails attach to the panel and give you a way to route power as well as the individual modules. There are also some other ways to do it, which you can look at on the Elby site under 4U support. I'd also take a look at Dmitri's videos:


If you're doing it via Random Source which is some diy (a lot of smd done for you already), those are more like eurorack panels and the pots/components are usually the main mounting method. You can see this in the diy/how to guides on their site.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by CLee » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:18 pm

I made these brackets to build with CGS and similar boards.

The panel components hold the bracket so no drilling needed. They’re available at Modular Addict and Synth Cube

http://clsound.com/4ubracket.html

72462FED-226C-4D2F-A2FC-A4F62B55A8FE.jpeg
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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by OscillatorScream » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am

Oh man. Thank you so much. You guys answered some questions that have been driving me wild. A few months ago I acquired a Buchla Music Easel and I noticed the even when gently pulling out the bananas, the panel still bends a bit. So this totally makes sense. I'm getting a bunch of random Serge/CGS builds without panels so this should be fun. Hahaha.

Here's a list of modules I'll be getting.

"Here are the list of pcbs: completed/mostly completed: wogglebug, Stroh Pico VCOx2, Pico VCA, Thomas White Resonant LPGx2, Barton Dual Nice Quantizer, Barton Dual LFO S+H, Buchla 291 x 2. Unfinished pcbs: Stroh Fadex (w panel and all parts), Hexinverter Postman EG, CGS60, Barton BMC004 Clock.
Then there are about 65 banana jacks (white, blue, and black) amd about 49 knobs of assorted colors."

Can't wait to figure out how to panel all of them.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by ashleym » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:29 pm

OscillatorScream wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am


Can't wait to figure out how to panel all of them.
By not putting those modules in. Think West coast. You are starting to get there but you are still fairly subtractive looking. Where are the DSUGs? You have some a random source and an interesting envelope but no wave shapers.

This is meant to be light hearted but if you are building a Serge/Buchla (Sergla? Buchlage?), i think (other opinions are available) you need to include Surgla modules and the seemingly odd ones as they are where you will get the Buchlage possibilities. And isn't that the point of building this?
Last edited by ashleym on Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by batchas » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:31 pm

OscillatorScream wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am
I'm getting a bunch of random Serge/CGS builds without panels so this should be fun. Hahaha.

Here's a list of modules I'll be getting.

"Here are the list of pcbs: completed/mostly completed: wogglebug, Stroh Pico VCOx2, Pico VCA, Thomas White Resonant LPGx2, Barton Dual Nice Quantizer, Barton Dual LFO S+H, Buchla 291 x 2. Unfinished pcbs: Stroh Fadex (w panel and all parts), Hexinverter Postman EG, CGS60, Barton BMC004 Clock.
Then there are about 65 banana jacks (white, blue, and black) amd about 49 knobs of assorted colors."
You mean you want to make a system in 4U format with these modules, incl. a panel layout like Serge layout?
I don't understand your post cause the CGS60 is the only Serge/CGS thing I see in your list. An adaptor to connect to the outer world...But what do you mean with "a bunch of random Serge/CGS builds"?

All PCBs from your list together it seems you can make a nice system. But it won't be a Serge system.
ashleym wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:29 pm
You have some a random source and an interesting envelope but no wave shapers.
I didn't see the random source in the list. Maybe you have another listing that I missed.
You are awaiting other PCBs from CGS and you have R*S PCBs too?
Then I'd recommend you check the DIY part of the forum.
Using the advanced search and checking the threads, compare the layouts etc to design your panels and see waht needs to be done to connect to panel components (many ways to connect for instance the T. White LPG and extend its possibilities!).
OscillatorScream wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am
How do you all get started into Serge?
I'd start buying PCBs with Serge circuits on them. CGS (www.elby-designs.com), Random*Source (http://randomsource.net/).

If I had to start today I'd prob. go for: http://www.73-75.com.

Then maybe add later Stroh circuits (you have already a few and they are very useful IMHO), or CLee, if something's missing.
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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by CLee » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:37 pm

batchas wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:31 pm
You mean you want to make a system in 4U format with these modules, incl. a panel layout like Serge layout?
I don't understand your post cause the CGS60 is the only Serge/CGS thing I see in your list
My short list of modules that really make a modular a Serge,

DUSG - Dual Universal Slope Generator
SSG - Smooth and Stepped Generator
WM - Wave Multipliers
VCFQ - Variable Q voltage controlled filter
REQ - Resonant EQ

There's lots of variations on the DUSG. Lots of modules that are just a DUSG board brought to the panel different ways.

Also there's lots of other great Serge modules, but these to me are unique and are very Serge in attitude.

The 73-75 panel mentioned above is based on an earlier line of Serge designs, and is more granular in the sense that the modules tend to be more raw in their function where the DUSG generation is a bit more "advanced" - without that being a value judgement.

EDIT: BTW, this whole list is available as CGS boards

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by ashleym » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:53 pm

batchas wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:31 pm


I didn't see the random source in the list. Maybe you have another listing that I missed.
I was counting the Wogglebug as a random source.

An Elby BOG and MARSH do quite a good job of covering things. Even a BOG on its own. As I have mentioned elsewhere the Voltrons look very interesting too.

I'll shut up now

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by OscillatorScream » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:04 pm

ashleym wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:29 pm
OscillatorScream wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am


Can't wait to figure out how to panel all of them.
By not putting those modules in. Think West coast. You are starting to get there but you are still fairly subtractive looking. Where are the DSUGs? You have some a random source and an interesting envelope but no wave shapers.

This is meant to be light hearted but if you are building a Serge/Buchla (Sergla? Buchlage?), i think (other opinions are available) you need to include Surgla modules and the seemingly odd ones as they are where you will get the Buchlage possibilities. And isn't that the point of building this?

Well, I can send the audio out into my bastl timber which is a dual waveform lumberjack (wavefolder) based onor inspired by the serge circuit. So that will get me buy until I can afford to pick up
a true serge waveshaper.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by OscillatorScream » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:09 pm

I'm trading a theremini for some working and not fully built pcbs and more. Here is the list

""Here are the list of pcbs: completed/mostly completed: wogglebug, Stroh Pico VCOx2, Pico VCA, Random Source Dual ADSR, Thomas White Resonant LPGx2, Barton Dual Nice Quantizer, Barton Dual LFO S+H, Buchla 291 x 2. Unfinished pcbs: Stroh Fadex (w panel and all parts), Hexinverter Postman EG, CGS60, Barton BMC004 Clock.
Then there are about 65 banana jacks (white, blue, and black) and about 49 knobs of assorted colors."
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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by Jonny » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:27 pm

OscillatorScream wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am
I'm getting a bunch of random Serge/CGS builds without panels so this should be fun.
Not to pile on, but if it isn't clear in what the others here have said, none of those are Serge modules (correction: except maybe that RS Dual ADSR if it's the Extended ADSR), designed by Serge Tcherepnin. You're building a 4U banana jack synth which could be fun, sure.

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by teleport » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:59 am

CLee wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:37 pm

There's lots of variations on the DUSG. Lots of modules that are just a DUSG board brought to the panel different ways.
This. The Slope Generators may seem unassuming at first glance but the versatility and range of applications is surprising, the slopes can pretty much make up a system on their own..
Here's a good intro writeup on different configurations : http://www.carbon111.com/alphabet1.html

(I think if this circuit had a subtitle it would have to be There and Back Again).

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Re: Serge and / or Buchla diy questions

Post by OscillatorScream » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:23 am

Jonny wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:27 pm
OscillatorScream wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:34 am
I'm getting a bunch of random Serge/CGS builds without panels so this should be fun.
Not to pile on, but if it isn't clear in what the others here have said, none of those are Serge modules (correction: except maybe that RS Dual ADSR if it's the Extended ADSR), designed by Serge Tcherepnin. You're building a 4U banana jack synth which could be fun, sure.
Sorry guys Im new to this Serge life.
Please excuse my Idiocracy. I understand that these aren't exactly Serge. But when I get these all working in a powered box with some room to spare, then I can buy some Serge pcbs and really get to the real stuff. For now I have a Bastl Timber waveshaper in my eurorack that will suffice as it is Serge inspired.
Then I'll focus on true Serge builds.

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