First Serge module

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syncretism
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Re: First Serge module

Post by syncretism » Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:41 am

I should say also that I'm in 4u-land over here. The Euro DUSG has some extra features that are closer to parity with the the Maths, but only some.

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CLee
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Re: First Serge module

Post by CLee » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:13 pm

syncretism wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:40 am
Bananas are for stacking outputs, obviating the need for multiples, not for stacking inputs. In my experience since first encountering Serge panels in friends' studios, admonishing newbies not to patch outputs to outputs (which is half of the problem with patching as you have described) is a core component of the experience. 101, even.

Most manufacturers of banana-jacked modules will tell you that passive mixing by stacking inputs is safe up to point, but that the system may behave unexpectedly, which makes sense, since you're potentially feeding voltages back to other modules' outputs. And that's of special concern if you're working with a mix of differently-specified banana formats, where you may have two or three 10v p-p envelopes modulating an input that was designed for 0-5v and might not have any additional protections against higher voltages in place:
The standard output architecture of Serge modules is different than the Euro "standard" (if there is one).

Euro usually have a 1K output resistor in series with the op amp ouput OUTPUT --> 1K RESISTOR --> JACK

This design can do a certain amount of passive mixing. You can do it if you want, actual results may be useful.

Serge designed his outputs with an output protection resistor inside the feedback loop of the op amp. It's usually smaller 330R or 100R. The design allows the output to remain consistent as the load on the output varies. A 5.0 volt output will stay at 5.0 volts no matter how much you stack the cables and fan out to multiple inputs (of course only until the op amp can't deliver enough current). This makes sense with banana jacks, because you don't need mults, just keep stacking cables.

Because of that design, these outputs probably don't passive mix very well, if at all. The output op amps are going to fight to keep the output side of the resistor at what it thinks is the proper voltage, when that point is the passive summing node.

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FatRocky
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Re: First Serge module

Post by FatRocky » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 am

I do lots of output mixing on serge. mostly on R*S TKB and DUSG XL and CArnivore.
but the one i abuse the most is the LW new DUSG CYCLE GATE INPUT, sometimes i stack more than 4 outputs in there. No problem at all. It can be un predictable sometimes when overlapping too many gates but i´m not looking for perfection anyway ( it gets a bit jazzy and i like it).

by the way if i have to get just one module in 4x4 it will be the DUSG XL ( because of the Peak & Trough , the outputs and great audio range and Modulation) or the CArnivore because its a complete synth voice with pseudo sequencing capabilities and more)
Some of the Mclass panels are great as well if i just have to get one.

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the bad producer
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Re: First Serge module

Post by the bad producer » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:27 pm

FatRocky wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 am
...sometimes i stack more than 4 outputs in there....
:eek: :hihi:

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CLee
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Re: First Serge module

Post by CLee » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:47 pm

FatRocky wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 am
I do lots of output mixing on serge. mostly on R*S TKB and DUSG XL and CArnivore.
but the one i abuse the most is the LW new DUSG CYCLE GATE INPUT, sometimes i stack more than 4 outputs in there. No problem at all. It can be un predictable sometimes when overlapping too many gates but i´m not looking for perfection anyway ( it gets a bit jazzy and i like it).
Glad it's working. I don't do any passive mixing, so I can't say for sure, but these are the outputs of a Wave Multiplier and the Resonant EQ. I don't know how they would behave if connected together, the op amp pin 7s would see a varying load and act odd... I need to try it and see. Not all the outs are designed that way, so maybe some work and some don't.
Outs.jpg
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FatRocky
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Re: First Serge module

Post by FatRocky » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:12 pm

CLee wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:47 pm
FatRocky wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 am
I do lots of output mixing on serge. mostly on R*S TKB and DUSG XL and CArnivore.
but the one i abuse the most is the LW new DUSG CYCLE GATE INPUT, sometimes i stack more than 4 outputs in there. No problem at all. It can be un predictable sometimes when overlapping too many gates but i´m not looking for perfection anyway ( it gets a bit jazzy and i like it).
Glad it's working. I don't do any passive mixing, so I can't say for sure, but these are the outputs of a Wave Multiplier and the Resonant EQ. I don't know how they would behave if connected together, the op amp pin 7s would see a varying load and act odd... I need to try it and see. Not all the outs are designed that way, so maybe some work and some don't.

Outs.jpg

Yes ,
sorry i didn´t read the thread commentaries correctly.
The only one where i use 3 o 4 sources is the R*S TKB ´s GATES and GATE SEQUENCER mostly to feed CYCLE GATE IN of the LW DUSG , i even use a stacked cable to insert voltages by touching the plug with my finger, maybe i shouldn´t do that, but it´s fun.
With other applications like CV INPUTS on the Carnivore i mix two , and very rarely 3 or noise, sometimes you hear a sort mix , sometimes it kind of freezes or saturates. I guess it´s depending on the sources and the input tolerances. The modules operate normal after that ( meaning they don´t get damaged)

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