Noisebug "just say no" press release

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zzelig
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by zzelig » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:47 pm

mutierend wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Y'all are either going to love or hate this month's episode of the Source of Uncertainty podcast. :deadbanana:
Just heard it. That clears up a lot, thanks.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:17 pm

zzelig wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:47 pm
mutierend wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Y'all are either going to love or hate this month's episode of the Source of Uncertainty podcast. :deadbanana:
Just heard it. That clears up a lot, thanks.
It comes out tomorrow.
Robert
Co-host, Buchla podcast at http://sourceofuncertainty.audio

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by zzelig » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:37 pm

mutierend wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:17 pm
zzelig wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:47 pm
mutierend wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Y'all are either going to love or hate this month's episode of the Source of Uncertainty podcast. :deadbanana:
Just heard it. That clears up a lot, thanks.
It comes out tomorrow.
Early Patreon supporter release

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Fuzz
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Fuzz » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:17 am

zzelig wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:37 pm
mutierend wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:17 pm
zzelig wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:47 pm
mutierend wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Y'all are either going to love or hate this month's episode of the Source of Uncertainty podcast. :deadbanana:
Just heard it. That clears up a lot, thanks.
It comes out tomorrow.
Early Patreon supporter release
Power user!!! :sb:
darksparkler.bandcamp.com - Music
sourceofuncertainty.audio - Podcast

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tIB
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by tIB » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:47 am

Is it a secret or will you share what's been cleared up?

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:49 am

zzelig wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:37 pm

Early Patreon supporter release
Gasp!

(Thanks for your support.)
Robert
Co-host, Buchla podcast at http://sourceofuncertainty.audio

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:49 am

tIB wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:47 am
Is it a secret or will you share what's been cleared up?
Listen tomorrow and all will be revealed. Sort of.
Robert
Co-host, Buchla podcast at http://sourceofuncertainty.audio

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by LVU » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:58 am

Very interesting interview with lots of insight into complex processes. :tu:

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Pagoda-100 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:55 am

As a side note, anyone remotely interested in the Buchla world should give this podcast a shot. It has been full of interesting interviews, Top notch module demos and exposures to new artists. Robert and Kyle are knocking it out of the park! It's one of my favorite Pods. Give it a go for sure.

Now off to the shop I go to fetch my 3M Worktunes and listen to this episode!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Fuzz » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:51 pm

Pagoda-100 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:55 am
As a side note, anyone remotely interested in the Buchla world should give this podcast a shot. It has been full of interesting interviews, Top notch module demos and exposures to new artists. Robert and Kyle are knocking it out of the park! It's one of my favorite Pods. Give it a go for sure.

Now off to the shop I go to fetch my 3M Worktunes and listen to this episode!
Thanks Pagoda!

Here's a link to the new episode...

http://sourceofuncertainty.audio/podcas ... e-shifter/
darksparkler.bandcamp.com - Music
sourceofuncertainty.audio - Podcast

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Pagoda-100 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:02 pm

Fuzz wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:51 pm
Pagoda-100 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:55 am
As a side note, anyone remotely interested in the Buchla world should give this podcast a shot. It has been full of interesting interviews, Top notch module demos and exposures to new artists. Robert and Kyle are knocking it out of the park! It's one of my favorite Pods. Give it a go for sure.

Now off to the shop I go to fetch my 3M Worktunes and listen to this episode!
Thanks Pagoda!

Here's a link to the new episode...

http://sourceofuncertainty.audio/podcas ... e-shifter/
Dude... Colossus? Buchla system unplugged? Holy #%@! Mind blown. :deadbanana: Well played robert, and lucky you Kyle!
Oh the interview was good as well. ;)

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Siren
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Siren » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:33 pm

I still have that first 297 of yours Robert, in fact I’m looking at it right now. :love:
Great episode so far, as always!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by rkilman » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:50 pm

Biggest takeaway from the podcast - a fix to 272e issue!! Yay!!!!!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by jimfowler » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:55 pm

not to deviate too far from the topic at hand but the sou podcast is a monthly highlight. i encourage everybody to chip in some bucks (via patreon) for these dudes. i've spent way more money on far less worthy things.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by KSS » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:42 pm

159Kg = 350 lbs
Congrats!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Pagoda-100 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:26 pm

jimfowler wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:55 pm
not to deviate too far from the topic at hand but the sou podcast is a monthly highlight. i encourage everybody to chip in some bucks (via patreon) for these dudes. i've spent way more money on far less worthy things.
I don't think it's deviating at all when you take into account they are so close to Eric and the fact that they specifically made reference to not relying on Muffs as a source of Buchla insight. Eric was most honest about wanting to respond to the "hard questions" and I think he did just that. Good on him! If you are wondering what Buchla is thinking / doing this is your best bet I'd say. If you read this thread from the beginning You will more or less find the podcast addressed a good bit of it. Rather fun turn of events actually.

And yes, If you are in the position to do the Patreon thing for sure kick them some help. Couldn't agree more that the value is Epic. Plus you get all the juicy video content / extras.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Tonefloat01 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 pm

My takeaways were the following:

1. What kind of super car does Robert or Kyle own?
2. Eric did mention still having a network of dealers to test drive Buchla systems but he didn’t mention anything about one in SoCal...
3. So if I were considering expanding my very modest LEM system with new Buchla modules they may or may not play nice with modules that I’d want to use from 1979, Keen, etc...?
4. Having a portable Buchla case for $999 that could hold 8 modules would be great...
5. So one of the original Buchla build partners retires and Eric doesn’t like the new owners so hires some other Bay Area people to do it..
6. I agree that having Buchla 100 modules in Eurorack probably doesn’t help sell 200e module systems.
7. Glad to hear that there are almost 1000 208C’s sold so that they have some revenue to provide healthcare and benefits for their employees.
8. I for one would be happy if one day I could just call up Eric and ask if he had a Skylab in stock and he would say ‘Yes’ before the monies get deviated to some other gear and/or life necessities...
The space you occupy determines the time you live in.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mixxalot » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:32 pm

Sad to see as Noisebug is where I bought my first modular system a Doepfer A100 Basic System 1 to get into eurorack world and they were pleasant to buy from. I do like that they are going to carry Serge gear as that interests me more than Buchla but I do want Buchla to move ahead, innovate and succeed in the future with more affordable options. And I still want a Buchla one day.
My music:
https://soundcloud.com/modben

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by KSS » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:15 am

A BuchlaGrid will be a useful thing.

But it also presents a difficult fork. Eric says oneoreason is to be able to see what ta given user is dealing with in totality -with an eye to better service- but also repeatedly saying if there's third party involved, that's not on us. <--Which is understandable. However this means that the actual value of any 'BuchlaGrid' aka "BG" for anyone with third party modules is diminished.

Will they have faceplates aka graphics for third party modules? Blank spots-panels marked "3rd party goes here- ignore"

It's a bit like the gate closing after the livestock's got out. The BU* ecosystem already includes far too many 3rd party modules to just write them out of a customer's system as it appears on BG.

BG can still be a good and useful thing without 3rd party module support. But it will fail to accomplish at least some of Eric's goals for it -as stated in this podcast- if 3rd party modules have no representation.

How to define the ecosystem?

*BU aka Buchla Unit is the quite obvious answer to the dilemma posed in the podcast as to how to define Buchla-BUSA vs everything else 4U or Buchla-derived/inspired. It already works well in the 5U market where MU is well understood. Choosing SU for Serge Unit also works, since LW takes care of the non full or 4 up panels.

A BU is 4-1/4 x 7" and has general mechanical-physical-electrical compatibility with B&A, Buchla, BEMI and BUSA modules.
BUe seems an obvious addition.

B&A, Buchla, BEMI and BUSA modules are the *real* Buchlas. <--All of these are BU -or BUe.

Not all BU or BUe is B&A, Buchla, BEMI or BUSA.
Treat utility modules as stars instead of backup singers.
Treat power supplies like Rockstars instead of roadies!
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by ArguZ » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:18 am

One interesting question is when does a BU become a real Buchla module ?
When it's Don's idea ? Or Made by Buchla at some point ? Or adapted by Buchla ?
For example Jon's 100 series...which are based on old designs, made with new parts...
Or the upcoming 200 series which are probably romans clones with fixes (pure speculation of course)
And what about that Red Panel stuff ?
I totally agree that people who want to buy Buchla should get the real stuff, but i think most will do a bit of research before shelling out that kind of money for any musical instrument or part of one anyway.
The parts we all use use are simple off-the-shelf components.
Sifam/Selco or Rogan knobs, the jacks are Johnson or Switchcraft Phone Connectors and C+K D6R pushbuttons.
That is standard lab equipment and the main reason why things look alike .... that and the silver front.
Most Serge format stuff is way harder to distinguish actually .
But with all the rebuilds, vintage, new , third party etc a definition of the 4U-B and 4U-S really is a good idea in terms of compatibility.
That is what made Eurorack so attractive , that there IS a reliable power bus and people did not have to wonder where to get 5V from...or 12V..or even 3V3 now...
This : http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100t_e.htm
And this : http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100m_e.htm
Are the base for everyone designing for that format ... precise specs for form format and specs...including slanted mounting holes
And that is how the ecosystem can grow in a healthy way :)

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by tIB » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:01 am

So listened to and enjoyed the podcast - my first ever podcast incidentally; curse you all for sucking me in! A handful of takeouts...

Eric sounds like a good guy if a little burned, which occasionally comes across negatively. He comes across as honest though so good on him.

I'm pleased 200e continues to be seen as the flagship. Dealer networks aren't so important to me but I do want to be able to get a module when I want one. Strides taken there it seems.

Support - well that goes with the territory. It would probably be much simpler if you were actively fixing bugs within the system and individual modules, to communicate that. It's fine to say get in touch but really it's a two way thing. The interview is helpful in that regard. I'll be getting in touch about my 272e...

Also with communication I'm not sure ignoring a long standing bug fix thread here is ideal, if you have nothing set up other than a 'get in touch' policy about such issues. The forum he speaks of is a decent idea, but having a look at that thread seems a no brainier if you are interested in moving things on. I'll put together and send an overview...

As for the above 'what is buchla post' for me it's Don's modules and designs. Occasionally I'll accept third party stuff as buchla if they have improved upon his design - the studio h stuff is a great example of that. I see clones as approximations, and have no issue with that if I can get a clone to do something the 200e cant, and see everything else as buchla format. I have no issue with that either though I'm less inclined to use them personally.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:35 pm

Tonefloat01 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 pm
My takeaways were the following:

1. What kind of super car does Robert or Kyle own?
I have a Ferrari California T. Kyle drives a nice compact SUV in which the sKylelab fits perfectly.
Robert
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by machine » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:27 pm

Meanwhile in Sergeland /transition: butterflies, arcadian rolling green acres/ Noisebug has listed (the first?) R*S Crocodile panel for sale.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by triplizard » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:27 pm

Kind of feels like the podcast should be its own thread but in any event .. I really enjoyed that a lot - great job, guys!

The stuff at the beginning on the 297 was really interesting ... and also validating for me, because I just ordered a 297 from Buchla earlier this week.

Loved the interview with Eric. To me, he came across as quite unfiltered - in a good way. He seemed passionate about the products, the legacy and the people who use them. After listening to this I feel better and more confident in my recent investments in a 200e system.

Other rando thoughts:
* His reason for selling direct instead of through retailers was different than what I anticipated, although it's totally possible that not seeing why he needs to incur a retail margin in a world where all sales are online weighed heavily into his decision, but is not something he'd really want to talk about publicly. The idea that selling direct gives him more flexibility in getting modules to customers who want them more efficiently is a great reason, even if it is somewhat pretext.
* I totally understand and appreciate how he and his team can be frustrated at having to provide tech support for problems caused by 3rd Party vendors and clones/DIY. I actually thought he came across as more supportive of that community than a lot of people would be. I liked his comment where he said if you're going to do something make sure it complements what their doing instead of just duplicating it (presumably at a lower cost).
* Buchla as a brand and not a format - sure, makes sense, e.g. Doepfer isn't a format, Moog isn't a format, etc. Kinda inside baseball, though, but I can see why it's important to him that "Buchla" refer to instruments he makes as opposed to 3rd party products, which he has no control over quality, compatibility, etc. I'm sure Dieter is quite happy to not have the Doepfer brand associated with some fly-by-night Eurorack outfit.
* Great to hear that Easels are a success! I loved how he couched that success as "now I can provide benefits to all of my employees."
* Love that we might get a pretty interesting sounding new 200e module as early as this year!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by KSS » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:29 pm

ArguZ wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:18 am
One interesting question is when does a BU become a real Buchla module ?
When it's Don's idea ? Or Made by Buchla at some point ? Or adapted by Buchla ?
For example Jon's 100 series...which are based on old designs, made with new parts...
Or the upcoming 200 series which are probably romans clones with fixes (pure speculation of course)
And what about that Red Panel stuff ?
The use of BU eliminates the need to parse all of that. The only real Buchla's are those by B&A, Buchla, BEMI and BUSA. Everything else is BU.
Anything further is a separate issue. Whether Don did or did not design it is a personal decision about validity. As time goes on, Joel and Felix will be more and more the source of REAL Buchla. Buchla is a brand which has had many designers besides Don for a long time now. Even when Don was alive he was not the only person doing design work. Therefore he put the '& Associates' on the panels.

BU is the 'Buchla' -derived format. And it IS a format. <--This is both the reason and the answer to why using BU answers the dilemma. The look, feel, panel styles and part choices, as well as mechanical and electrical compatibility are all tenets of a format. The Buchla Unit. As opposed to a Buchla module, or modules. This preservs BUSA's claim and rights on all previous B&A, Buchla, BEMI and BUSA offerings. While still discerning a difference which allows and understands that the FORMAT derived from Don''s -and his asociates!- work is a separate thing. No matter how closely it aligns or derives. <--It's up to BUSA to protect its rights on any that are considered too close as to be harming or impacting the Buchla brand.

Great modules may be made by others. Modules which fit and work seamlessly in BOTH a BU and a Buchla environment. But B&A, Buchla, BEMI and BUSA are the only true Buchla modules.
I totally agree that people who want to buy Buchla should get the real stuff, but i think most will do a bit of research before shelling out that kind of money for any musical instrument or part of one anyway.
History does not align with this belief. We have seen numerous examples of people having bought third party modules who did *not* realize they weren't actual Buchla -the brand- products.
The parts we all use use are simple off-the-shelf components.
Sifam/Selco or Rogan knobs, the jacks are Johnson or Switchcraft Phone Connectors and C+K D6R pushbuttons.
That is standard lab equipment and the main reason why things look alike .... that and the silver front.
Yes, and that is why using BU to signify the format from the brand makes sense. Because it is not the parts which make a Buchla module. It's the source.
Most Serge format stuff is way harder to distinguish actually .
I disagree, but it's not really germain to this discussion anyways.
But with all the rebuilds, vintage, new , third party etc a definition of the 4U-B and 4U-S really is a good idea in terms of compatibility.
Framing the two formats with 4U-x is un-necessary. 4U is a given for both. BU and SU inherently incorporate the panel size. As seen in this MW sub forum heading, the distinction is pointless. BU -and possibly SU, though this is again also non-pertinent to this thread- is simple and matches precedent for format notification in long use. Everybody here likely understands or would quickly come to understand what EU, MU, BU, SU mean.
That is what made Eurorack so attractive , that there IS a reliable power bus and people did not have to wonder where to get 5V from...or 12V..or even 3V3 now...
Are the base for everyone designing for that format ... precise specs for form format and specs...including slanted mounting holes
And that is how the ecosystem can grow in a healthy way :)
Similar specs exist for the BU format. BU vs Buchla is easily understood, implemented and solves the Dilemma of distinction between current and former Buchla products and those current and former BU offers from third parties.

Every Buchla is a also a BU. Not every BU is a Buchla. Pretty simple really.
Treat utility modules as stars instead of backup singers.
Treat power supplies like Rockstars instead of roadies!
Chase magic sound, not magic parts.

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