Noisebug "just say no" press release

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shoegazer86
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by shoegazer86 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:33 pm

triplizard wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:27 pm
* I totally understand and appreciate how he and his team can be frustrated at having to provide tech support for problems caused by 3rd Party vendors and clones/DIY. I actually thought he came across as more supportive of that community than a lot of people would be. I liked his comment where he said if you're going to do something make sure it complements what their doing instead of just duplicating it (presumably at a lower cost).
I would like to add a little aside here, and duplicating at a lower cost, is exactly what any company aims to do. It's all about margins. Think about the love and care that went into the old layouts and cards. Then think about how it's changed to SMD, partially autorouted and made to be built as cheaply and efficiently as possible.

Now look at Moog. Who knows the value in what they do. They bring back a modular from their archives and do it to the T exactly the way they used to. They STILL sell them all.

I would beg to argue the main unspoken issue any company has against clones is the fear that the cloner will pay more attention to detail than they would, or make less shortcuts.

It's not a bad thing to be worried about. It's just how you frame it.
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Tonefloat01 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:13 pm

mutierend wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:35 pm
Tonefloat01 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 pm
My takeaways were the following:

1. What kind of super car does Robert or Kyle own?
I have a Ferrari California T. Kyle drives a nice compact SUV in which the sKylelab fits perfectly.
Very nice, how’s the upkeep on those things?
The Ferrari that is... :hihi:
The space you occupy determines the time you live in.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by winn3r » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm

shoegazer86 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:33 pm
Now look at Moog. Who knows the value in what they do. They bring back a modular from their archives and do it to the T exactly the way they used to. They STILL sell them all.
A bit off topic, but my Synth-Werk clone feels better-built and higher quality than my Moog reissue and the two times I've had to send its modules in for repair, I've received less than stellar support and communication. Plus they refuse to help whatsoever with vintage Moogs...

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by KSS » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:21 pm

@shoegazer86
I would instead say that 'any company' may *not* be based on lower cost, or margins. The best companies are focused on providing value. Which can be high or low cost. High or low margins.

Focusing only on price and margins leaves out some very useful and successful options.

Your case of the cloner who uses older technology and NOS parts may have to charge a higher price. As long as the customer agrees this higher price is matched by increased value it all works out. The cloner may have to work with lower margins. As long as the margins allow the company to exist and maintain profitability.

Eric said as much in the podcast when he joked that if it were only money he was concerned about, he would simply mass produce Easels and move to an island. Part of why he said this is to signal the value his choices are or will bring to the brand. Because value not cost or margins is what ultimately determines a company's success. This is not to say margins don't matter. They must be enough to allow the company to continue to exist.
Last edited by KSS on Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:21 pm

Tonefloat01 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:13 pm
Very nice, how’s the upkeep on those things?
The Ferrari that is... :hihi:
The yearly service in September 2020 was $72 because I dropped it off with an empty tank and they filled it up.
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Sinamsis » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:03 pm

Kent wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:01 pm
For better or for worse, BUSA is not currently being operated like a personal cottage business and sole proprietorship. There are arguments to be made as to why this could be a good thing but I won’t delve into those as it is 3AM!
The brand is no longer “Don’s baby” and there is no “Don-like” figure working his arcane magic behind the scenes. Good luck finding another Don. The closest we’ve got is likely Alex & Co. at Keen. I don’t follow much in the way of Eurorack but will offer that Scott Jaeger at IME fits that mould to a good degree.
The more I got into IME the more I came to consider it industrial euro Buchla. And it's not to diminish Scott's work by considering it along side Buchla. I think a lot of his work does draw inspiration from Don's, but not in a derivative way. IME has replaced most of my eurorack haha. Scott is brilliant and his work, particularly the new generation of modules, is truly inspiring.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:22 pm

Sinamsis wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:03 pm
The more I got into IME the more I came to consider it industrial euro Buchla. And it's not to diminish Scott's work by considering it along side Buchla. I think a lot of his work does draw inspiration from Don's, but not in a derivative way. IME has replaced most of my eurorack haha. Scott is brilliant and his work, particularly the new generation of modules, is truly inspiring.
Scott is also a really nice person. I have run into him several times at local events here. He delivered an IME module to a friend of mine and helped him set it up, too.
Robert
Co-host, Buchla podcast at http://sourceofuncertainty.audio

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Sinamsis » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:27 pm

mutierend wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:22 pm
Sinamsis wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:03 pm
The more I got into IME the more I came to consider it industrial euro Buchla. And it's not to diminish Scott's work by considering it along side Buchla. I think a lot of his work does draw inspiration from Don's, but not in a derivative way. IME has replaced most of my eurorack haha. Scott is brilliant and his work, particularly the new generation of modules, is truly inspiring.
Scott is also a really nice person. I have run into him several times at local events here. He delivered an IME module to a friend of mine and helped him set it up, too.
He's a very good dude. We chat not infrequently. Haha, mostly about Buchla these days!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by SynthBaron » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:39 pm

winn3r wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm
shoegazer86 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:33 pm
Now look at Moog. Who knows the value in what they do. They bring back a modular from their archives and do it to the T exactly the way they used to. They STILL sell them all.
A bit off topic, but my Synth-Werk clone feels better-built and higher quality than my Moog reissue and the two times I've had to send its modules in for repair, I've received less than stellar support and communication. Plus they refuse to help whatsoever with vintage Moogs...
The Moog re-issues feel like they put in just enough effort into them to make them function. You would think the build quality and support would be better than 5 decades ago, but it just isn't.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by triplizard » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:17 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:39 pm
winn3r wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm
shoegazer86 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:33 pm
Now look at Moog. Who knows the value in what they do. They bring back a modular from their archives and do it to the T exactly the way they used to. They STILL sell them all.
A bit off topic, but my Synth-Werk clone feels better-built and higher quality than my Moog reissue and the two times I've had to send its modules in for repair, I've received less than stellar support and communication. Plus they refuse to help whatsoever with vintage Moogs...
The Moog re-issues feel like they put in just enough effort into them to make them function. You would think the build quality and support would be better than 5 decades ago, but it just isn't.
Personally, I would be wary of any kind of "limited edition" reissue. I think if they really wanted to be in that business they'd re-enter that business, and they'd sell modules and cabinets, etc., for people who wanted to buy in to the ecosystem, rather than a handful of one-off fixed systems that cost as much as a decent car. A limited edition thing seems like more of a vanity project or PR stunt to me. (Normal caveat: what do I know.)

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by ddp » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:35 am

It's also unfortunate that Moog still doesn't have a community forum, Sequential does. One exists but it often seems to redirect into archive.org.
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by jdkJake » Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:26 am

ddp wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:35 am
It's also unfortunate that Moog still doesn't have a community forum, Sequential does. One exists but it often seems to redirect into archive.org.
The moog-sponsored community forum does indeed exist, it is just not widely embraced by the moog community. At least not as much as it once was. Very little activity occurs on that forum.

The main problem with the moog-sponsored community forum is that moog does not participate on it. Not in the least from what I can tell. Therefore, it’s usefulness is limited at best. At least from my perspective.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mermott » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:11 am

zzelig wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:47 pm
mutierend wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:13 pm
Y'all are either going to love or hate this month's episode of the Source of Uncertainty podcast. :deadbanana:
Just heard it. That clears up a lot, thanks.

MORE EASEL. EVEN ONE OF THE POLITE HOSTS CAN’T HOLD A YAWN AT 2:00:28. ANOTHER ONE AT 2:02:36. ONE MODULE KNOWN TEN YEARS OLD ISSUES FIXED IN SECRET. MANY MANY MORE EASELS. ISLAND POSSIBLY (A THREAT).

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by SynthBaron » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:57 am

I mean, it makes zero financial sense to do any firmware updates for old modules for such a low-volume manufacturer like Buchla. The only hope is probably if they translate their 200e designs to Eurorack, where'd they'd have to update the parts to more modern digital ones and mess with the source code. And then you could easily create a Buchla-format panel version of it, and swap your old electronics PCB's for new ones.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by ddp » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:24 pm

That makes no sense either, Buchla's 1.2v/octave is superior.
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:48 pm

mermott wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:11 am

MORE EASEL. EVEN ONE OF THE POLITE HOSTS CAN’T HOLD A YAWN AT 2:00:28. ANOTHER ONE AT 2:02:36. ONE MODULE KNOWN TEN YEARS OLD ISSUES FIXED IN SECRET. MANY MANY MORE EASELS. ISLAND POSSIBLY (A THREAT).
Thanks for being the yawn tracker! You are probably hearing my respiratory disability and not boredom.
Robert
Co-host, Buchla podcast at http://sourceofuncertainty.audio

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by tIB » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:52 pm

Following the interview I contacted BUSA about my 272e and have received info about the new firmware (v31 is up at the download site as of today) and a hardware mod to make the boot work correctly. If anyone needs that info I suggest getting in touch via their support ticket... Good stuff!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mermott » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:31 pm

mutierend wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:48 pm
Thanks for being the yawn tracker! You are probably hearing my respiratory disability and not boredom.
My apologies for mistaking it for a sign of fatigue, it’s only heard during the Easel segment.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:59 pm

No worries. :)
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by triplizard » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:34 pm

Aaaaand...just got the shipping notification for my 297. :beer:

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by 01235813 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:23 am

mermott wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:31 pm
mutierend wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:48 pm
Thanks for being the yawn tracker! You are probably hearing my respiratory disability and not boredom.
My apologies for mistaking it for a sign of fatigue, it’s only heard during the Easel segment.
Even if it was a yawn, cheap shot putting Robert on the spot like that.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Kent » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:12 am

triplizard wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:34 pm
Aaaaand...just got the shipping notification for my 297. :beer:
:sb: Glorp Engaged!

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mermott » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:52 am

01235813 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:23 am
Even if it was a yawn, cheap shot putting Robert on the spot like that.
We may have different views on what humour can be. The interviewee is very skilled at entertaining guests while not saying much at all. He seems to enjoy dark humour too. Having us sit for an hour and a half with very little substantial information.

What is clear is that there is no commitment to firmware updates for the still current line. I think i understand how it works. Someone special needed a functional 272e. That’s our gain.

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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:01 pm

mermott wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:52 am
We may have different views on what humour can be. The interviewee is very skilled at entertaining guests while not saying much at all. He seems to enjoy dark humour too. Having us sit for an hour and a half with very little substantial information.
You could always ask for a refund.
Robert
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Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by jimfowler » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:50 pm

mutierend wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:01 pm
You could always ask for a refund.
Ha! Zing. SOU podcast is great...don't let nobody tell you otherwise.

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