Noisebug "just say no" press release

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
AThousandDetails
Common Wiggler
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:05 am
Location: Porto, Portugal

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by AThousandDetails » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:53 am

oh that's why i now understand the Reverb Noisebug big boat sale.... :| this is odd, it always have something more that we are told
Dogs are cool. Dogs rule over cats :D

User avatar
mdoudoroff
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4269
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:10 am
Location: New York City

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:35 am

The 208C is probably—for now—the lynchpin of BUSA’s business prospects. They’ve redesigned the 208 so it can be produced more economically, and now they can be a (small-but-prestigious) player in the semi-modular world and (hopefully) profit from it. The better the 208C business does, the more resources can, in theory, be invested in the 200e. It’s totally natural that some 208C buyers will decide to get more or less involved in the 200e line, too, but there are probably other avenues to build on top of the 208C business. The really interesting question is how BUSA can grow past Don without losing its identity. Every move they make will be scrutinized and criticized by some through that lens. Reviving some of the 200 line with simplified manufacturing techniques might have particular potential, given that the 208C seemingly can’t be reconciled with the “e” preset system without a more radical redesign that might render it unrecognizable. The one characteristic of prior iterations of “Buchla” that BUSA has to avoid is always teetering on the edge of insolvency.

User avatar
Kent
Curator/Janitor/Zookeeper
Posts: 12494
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Kent » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:02 pm

Sadly, for the 200e crowd, the next venture is trying to beat the 200 series clones at their own game. They are going to do 200-series stuff before more 200e stuff.

Could make sense from a business sense, but it isn't very Don Buchla at all. Not that that should be a driver regarding business.

User avatar
tIB
Stainer!
Posts: 9577
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:28 am
Location: UK

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by tIB » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:02 pm

I have no expectations for the 200e - seems it's at the bottom of a fairly long list of pointless (to me) things. I guess BUSA are trying to claim the market for 100 and 200 series stuff - there's obviously a market out there; perhaps at the right price it will sustain the business. I guess fixing code isn't going to make them any immediate cash, though I hope 200e doesn't get lost in the efforts to push out the older stuff. Interested to know if the full 200e range is even in production right now?

User avatar
LVU
Common Wiggler
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:22 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by LVU » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:38 pm

Kent wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:02 pm
Sadly, for the 200e crowd, the next venture is trying to beat the 200 series clones at their own game. They are going to do 200-series stuff before more 200e stuff.
Sadly, I got the same feeling, not sure if it will work out though. I bet there are quite a few people like me that started a clone system, because it was nearly impossible to buy 200e/BEMI Easels in the late BEMI days around 2017. :hmm: And these people love it and now want 200e!

Dreadwvlf
Common Wiggler
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:58 pm

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Dreadwvlf » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:21 pm

Well what do you guys (as it seems like most of you have been in buchla land far longer than I) think is sorely missing in terms of 200e modules? Coming from eurorack I’m constantly amazed by just how much each module can do. I feel like every time I think man i could use a ____ it turns out I actually already can do said operation somehow.

User avatar
Kent
Curator/Janitor/Zookeeper
Posts: 12494
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Kent » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:11 pm

I’m not certain that anything could be done for the 200e that would generate revenue; new product or bug fixes. It is all so expensive.

If development costs were not a concern, we could throw out all manner of cool e-series stuff possessing a Buchla flair: a percussion machine, time-based effects, FX processor, true analog 259/261e, and a lot has been going on in the realm of digital oscs over the past 15 years.

Firmware bug fixes would come first though. Again, no money in that.

User avatar
triplizard
Common Wiggler
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by triplizard » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:37 pm

Dreadwvlf wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:21 pm
Well what do you guys (as it seems like most of you have been in buchla land far longer than I) think is sorely missing in terms of 200e modules? Coming from eurorack I’m constantly amazed by just how much each module can do. I feel like every time I think man i could use a ____ it turns out I actually already can do said operation somehow.
It's a pretty sophisticated system as is. I don't think I need a bunch of Mutable Instrument type modules because obviously I can get those easily and more inexpensively in Euro, and I kinda like my Buchla sounding "like a Buchla." But I'd like to see a delay like the 277 - obviously I could just get a 277 if I could find a professionally built one available somewhere, but it would be nice to have an "e" version, particularly if Buchla added some interesting new features to make it as "sophisticated" as most of the 200e modules.

Also, wouldn't mind some more variety and options in terms of CV processing, with the HUGE caveat that I don't have a 256e or 257e yet and maybe once I get one and get my head around it I'll find out that they do everything I could want. (And it seems like there are some pretty good options in the 3rd party/clone world.)

Dreadwvlf
Common Wiggler
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:58 pm

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Dreadwvlf » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:42 pm

I could definitely see room for effects come to think of it. I think keen has the new 289e coming but as of right now I can’t think of any e series effects modules that can take advantage of the preset manager. Man, delays on the preset manager flipping through different states 🥰

Trip, Dougs studio h stuff IS absolutely killer for preset based cv processing. That’s the way I’ve gone for now. I definitely recommend them.

User avatar
tIB
Stainer!
Posts: 9577
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:28 am
Location: UK

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by tIB » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:23 am

I'm not so bothered about new 200e stuff, it's more about completing (and maintaining) the work. There are gaps in the range (reverb, delay, analogue osc) but they can all be filled elsewhere.

BEMI (rightly) had a bad rep but at least the 200e was a priority. All I see with BUSA is easel and a grab for the clone market.

User avatar
ws9848
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:20 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by ws9848 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:54 pm

tIB wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:23 am
I'm not so bothered about new 200e stuff, it's more about completing (and maintaining) the work. There are gaps in the range (reverb, delay, analogue osc) but they can all be filled elsewhere.

BEMI (rightly) had a bad rep but at least the 200e was a priority. All I see with BUSA is easel and a grab for the clone market.
They sure are taking their time for the clone market

User avatar
SynthBaron
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3516
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:43 am

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by SynthBaron » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:09 pm

Before BEMI, I almost pulled the trigger on a 12-panel 200e system when I had way too much money burning a hole in my pocket.

In 2021 if I had the same wad, the only Buchla stuff I would buy would be well-built aftermarket clones. I think the analog stuff is what most people are interested in anyway.

User avatar
tIB
Stainer!
Posts: 9577
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:28 am
Location: UK

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by tIB » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:17 pm

ws9848 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:54 pm
They sure are taking their time for the clone market
Ha, yeah grab probably the wrong word - its barely a reach!

User avatar
Kent
Curator/Janitor/Zookeeper
Posts: 12494
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Kent » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:29 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:09 pm
Before BEMI, I almost pulled the trigger on a 12-panel 200e system when I had way too much money burning a hole in my pocket.

In 2021 if I had the same wad, the only Buchla stuff I would buy would be well-built aftermarket clones. I think the analog stuff is what most people are interested in anyway.
You are missing out. The e-series is a modern day miracle. Sounds great and the preset functionality enhances creativity and is a boon to live performance (whatever that was back in the day).

User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 5290
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by KSS » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:49 pm

:agree:

User avatar
triplizard
Common Wiggler
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by triplizard » Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:07 pm

Kent wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:29 pm
SynthBaron wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:09 pm
Before BEMI, I almost pulled the trigger on a 12-panel 200e system when I had way too much money burning a hole in my pocket.

In 2021 if I had the same wad, the only Buchla stuff I would buy would be well-built aftermarket clones. I think the analog stuff is what most people are interested in anyway.
You are missing out. The e-series is a modern day miracle. Sounds great and the preset functionality enhances creativity and is a boon to live performance (whatever that was back in the day).
I don't miss analog in my 200e at all. You can get as analog as you want in Euro for a tiny fraction of the cost. The 259e and 261e sound as rich and "fat" as any true analogue osc I've ever heard and far more interesting than most. I might add a dual analogue osc to my system at some point for some variety but I definitely don't feel like the lack of one is a flaw.

User avatar
anselmi
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:08 pm
Location: Montevideo

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by anselmi » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:23 pm

triplizard wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:07 pm
Kent wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:29 pm
SynthBaron wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:09 pm
Before BEMI, I almost pulled the trigger on a 12-panel 200e system when I had way too much money burning a hole in my pocket.

In 2021 if I had the same wad, the only Buchla stuff I would buy would be well-built aftermarket clones. I think the analog stuff is what most people are interested in anyway.
You are missing out. The e-series is a modern day miracle. Sounds great and the preset functionality enhances creativity and is a boon to live performance (whatever that was back in the day).
I don't miss analog in my 200e at all. You can get as analog as you want in Euro for a tiny fraction of the cost. The 259e and 261e sound as rich and "fat" as any true analogue osc I've ever heard and far more interesting than most. I might add a dual analogue osc to my system at some point for some variety but I definitely don't feel like the lack of one is a flaw.
Studio H 258e/DPO seems to be like a good direction into expand the "e" universe in the right way


About Noisebug, in 2014 my customer experience with them was so bad that today it´s the only place where I no longer want to buy anything.

User avatar
mutierend
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 675
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:21 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mutierend » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:13 pm

Y'all are either going to love or hate this month's episode of the Source of Uncertainty podcast. :deadbanana:
Robert
Co-host, Buchla podcast at http://sourceofuncertainty.audio

User avatar
Tonefloat01
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Tonefloat01 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:52 pm

anselmi wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:23 pm

About Noisebug, in 2014 my customer experience with them was so bad that today it´s the only place where I no longer want to buy anything.
I wasn’t going to say anything about this retailer in my earlier post but after reading this I’d thought that I’d chime in here.I’ve only had bad experiences with this retailer when purchasing three synths over the years and that’s the reason why I bought my LEM directly from BUCHLA USA.


Post edited so I wouldn’t hurt anyone’s feelings.
Last edited by Tonefloat01 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The space you occupy determines the time you live in.

User avatar
anselmi
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:08 pm
Location: Montevideo

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by anselmi » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:08 pm

Tonefloat01 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:52 pm
anselmi wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:23 pm

About Noisebug, in 2014 my customer experience with them was so bad that today it´s the only place where I no longer want to buy anything.
I wasn’t going to say anything about this retailer in my earlier post but after reading this I’d thought that I’d chime in. I’ve only had bad experiences with this retailer when purchasing three synths in the past 4 years, absolutely abysmal support IMHO. That’s the reason why I bought my LEM directly from BUCHLA USA, just to avoid having to deal with these clowns. I was interested in Moon Modular as well but when I found out who the retailer was in the USA, I decided not to pursue purchasing it. Good luck Serge!
I think that, while you tell the truth, you should tell your experience if the occasion arises.

In my case I am far from speaking badly of dealers, on the contrary, I have had only good and excellent experiences with everyone else, so I´m not a hater of any kind.

I received a terrible treatment from them, I lost money and a lot of time, I had to insist (many times) to get answers and not continue wasting (more) time and money.

My experience is available to anyone who wants to know, just ask, I tell.

In any case, in any situation of bad relationship there are at least two parts involved, so if Noisebug read this forum and has something to say about me as a client, I don't mind if they express it, as long as they write with the truth. I dare them.

User avatar
Default1
Common Wiggler
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Default1 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:43 am

A couple of topics have come up on this thread I think are worth addressing.

Firstly, Kent is 100% correct, the preset system is a masterpiece for live performance. It wasn't specifically mentioned above, but the key here is that it allows you to change the data on your sequencers. Sequencers take hours to programme, and the preset manager means you can move from one piece to another, change key, change the whole damn tuning of your instrument. Game changer.

Secondly, I am thankful that the 200e system still persists and is still being manufactured. Its probably a small miracle. Many of the complaints above boil down to what a niche industry Buchla format modular is. Production runs are tiny, so profit margins are tight, and the result is a system which is still quite experimental, with the consequent bugs and quirks, and long wait times for modules. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a firmware update as well. But consider that the 200e ecosystem has been around for 16 years now. Compare that with the first iterations of Moog, Buchla, Sequential, ARP, Oberheim. These cottage industry synth manufacturers historically don't last long! Generally it takes some megacorp like to bring an immaculately polished, issue-free synth to the market, but you won't see a Twisted Waveform Generator coming from any giant corporation.
http://thesonnydownsquartet.bandcamp.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFJ8EW ... -wbwwAVY8Q
The Sonny Downs Quartet is now also on available on Spotify and Apple Music.

User avatar
mdoudoroff
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4269
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:10 am
Location: New York City

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:52 am

Is there much potential for the 200e lineup to get the 208C treatment: redesign the the circuit boards for easier manufacturing and lower cost?

User avatar
Pagoda-100
Common Wiggler
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:03 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by Pagoda-100 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:16 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:52 am
Is there much potential for the 200e lineup to get the 208C treatment: redesign the the circuit boards for easier manufacturing and lower cost?
I am wondering the same. Looking at how Random Source is making new serge panels had me thinking about it. Also Joel was on a podcast ( Source of uncertainty) talking about the process of making the new 208 and how it improved things for manufacturing. I’m not an electronics guy so I have no idea if the 200e modules could get the same process... I guess it might also boil down to volume. Even if the process would work and is “better” just making the change might not make sense.

elmerfudd
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by elmerfudd » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:37 am

Basically the 208c got the 200e treatment. Instead of mother board, plug in sub modules they redesigned it to a single plane. Layout of the 208 is very similar to that of newer e modules, which makes sense with Joel's inputs. Other than massive batch sizes, I don't see huge manufacturing cost gains and the product demand probably would not justify the capital outlay. I think firmware updates/ bug fixes are warranted and needed. My personal opinion is that most users would even pay for them if offered as a suite, this would help offset the expense of a time and money eating task.
Just my warped view of things....

maxl0rd
Common Wiggler
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:51 pm

Re: Noisebug "just say no" press release

Post by maxl0rd » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:05 pm

I have two observations which temper my expectations for the future here.

I saw Don talk at a conference a long time ago. It was when SEAMUS gave him a lifetime achievement award. The internet tells me that this was 2002, which makes me feel old. Anyway, someone asked him if he would make analog synthesizer modules again, and he hemmed and hawed and said "I don't know maybe. I'll think about it." Maybe he was just playing them close to his chest, but two years later in 2004 he comes out with basically the entire 200e system out of nowhere. It appears that an entire system, which is still miles ahead of much of the industry in several respects, was knocked out in almost no time, like 17 or 18 years ago. Yes, a few very important modules were added later, etc. My point is: there is probably no one left alive working in this business that can duplicate this kind of output.

The second observation is that the digital side of the 200e is that old. You'd just as well wait for bug fixes to the Buchla 400 software than the 225e. It's probably not going to happen. Time has moved on. The development environments for some of the older modules would be very challenging to bring back. The code was probably written very quickly. It is what it is. People still somehow manage to make records with it.

I think focusing on iterating and perfecting the Easel has been a smart move. A criticism leveled against Buchla products was always that they were brilliant but unpolished. There's probably another 20 years of work left polishing the rest of the catalog. Maybe more. Don inspired dozens of other synth designers who are currently all competing with each other in the market to make wilder and wilder stuff. You know where to go for that. It makes sense for his company to now work on making the classic instruments _available_ and _reliable_. That is what is required to make the instruments something people use instead of historical curiosities.

Post Reply

Return to “Buchla, EMS & Serge”