Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

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ether^ra
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Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by ether^ra » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:22 pm

I'm assuming that the 288v has some kind of delay function, but what does it do exactly? Thanks in advance.
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Post by chrisso » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:37 pm

It can do both delay and pitch, and can sample and store.

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Minimoog56
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Post by Minimoog56 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:34 am

Very short delay that can be stretched X2 that then gets noisier groundfloor. It is a series of digital chip based (not BBD which for this module's price it should have) shift registers in increments with one volume slider per step for each "echo" in series. Can also switch off a step or set for reverse polarity plus loads of output options including hardwired summed outputs a, b, & c.

Cool module that can bounce between play and record modes with CV triggers. Not a highly finessed playback though.

Loop times are too short in even 2X mode to allow playback of even a short phrase.
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daindain
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Post by daindain » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:43 am

What's the history of it. Prototype? Or just something Mark dreamed up?

I thought I heard talk of it being some idea Don threw out

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Post by chrisso » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:04 pm

Yes, I think it's an old 200 series design.

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Post by Kent » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:52 am

Yup. It's an old Buchla design. I read up on the history somewhere quite some time ago. I may have found the information on Verbos's own blogspot site, but I can't recall. If my memory serves me correctly, I recall that he remained faithful to the design but swapped out the rather hard to find and expense Intel memory units for a much more common form of digital storage and then built some supporting circuitry around that.

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Minimoog56
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Post by Minimoog56 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:06 pm

yes - a few prototypes were cranked out in the 70's - rough stuff - not sure it even worked back then. today's version is a differnet beast based on observance and speculation. I really enjoyed her but found it to be a crutch like most delays can be - taking away from exploring other functionalities in the different modules.
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Post by prototek » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:32 pm

I don't have a 288v (yet) but I had a chance to check one out at Mark's place and I've also seen a handful of excellent video demos (Lyonel's video of a drum loop getting trashed by the 288v comes to mind!).

Somewhere on my hard drive I have a picture of an old, original 288 panel. I can't recall much difference (if any) on Mark's version. I'd have to find the picture to be 100% sure though.
I really like the 288v if not for any other reason than that it's the only delay that reminds me of the Eventide H910. It definitely has that early-digital "crudeness" to it sound (that's a good thing in this case).

While Mark was showing it to me he pointed out the somewhat high noise floor. If memory serves, he took care of this by patching in another Gate/VCA just to control the noise. Does this sound familiar to any of you 288v owners? Could someone explain how they patch it up in order to control the noise?

- John

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Post by chrisso » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:46 pm

I've found gating a rather clunky solution.
Firstly when a delay signal opens the gate, it also let's through the noise momentarily. hence, without proper balancing, the noise can become part of the sound.
Secondly, one of the great things about any delay is the different dynamics between early responses and secondary delays. If a gate allows through lower volume content, it also allows a lot of noise through.
The best results I've had is to really boost the volume of audio going into the 288v, hoping to overpower the noise floor. It works a lot of the time.

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Post by Lyonel » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:16 am

chrisso wrote:really boost the volume of audio going into the 288v
Yes ! And inserting a 291e and/or 292e (LowPass) in the feedback and/or output pass.

I think it's a picture of a 288 :

Image

Shasta Cults

Post by Shasta Cults » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:28 am

The 288 was designed by Buchla in 1976, I believe it was Dons answer to the Marshall Time Modulator which was demoed at that years NAMM. Don Built 2 prototypes that I am aware of.

Don shelved the project as he felt it was too noisy.. I repaired both prototypes a couple of years ago, shortly before Mark started selling his clone.

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momo
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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by momo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:27 pm

Just wanted to share that Mark is still making these. He responded to an enquiry from me today to say the following:

I have recently updated the design to function the same, but make it quieter and fit into all boats.

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by Fuzz » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Is it still $1,800? I spent a lot of time with the one at EMS and I didn't mind the noise. I'd like to hear the difference in the new one.
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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by jimfowler » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:14 pm

Not that this is something I could do myself but wouldn’t this design be a good candidate for a STM32-based port?

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by Fuzz » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:52 pm

This module was on Roman's list, so I'm guessing that would be the route he would take. I'm thinking the chances of it seeing the light of day are pretty slim at this point.
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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by momo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:28 pm

Yes price is the same

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by njdoyle » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:43 am

I got one of the new 288v modules (I think the first one maybe). I've had it for two weeks or so.

IMG_1235.jpeg

The new version has a new envelope follower output in the auto control section (at least I think it's new).

These are my thoughts so far:
  • This module is super fun!
  • I have a high tolerance for noise. This module is noisy but not over the top by my standards. The noise sounds good. I don't know how noisy the previous version was but this version is very usable.
  • I find myself using it more for weird glitchy time processing and chorus than I do delay.
  • Despite the previous point, it's an amazing delay.
  • The delay time is longer than I expected considering everyone says it's very short.
  • The mixer is very touchy and will usually overload at around 9 o'clock. Maybe this is intentional to get some crunch going.
  • The above crunch sounds pretty good.
  • The audio FM is pretty weak, I can't get much out of it when feeding it raw oscillator output.
  • I'm having a hard time getting consistent results out of the Auto Control section. Maybe I just have to learn it better but, at minimum, it's tricky to figure out.
  • The "next sound" / "all sounds" switch makes a lot more sense now that I know that it's tri-state instead of bi-state.
  • The "next sound" / "all sounds" switch makes a lot more sense now that I know that "next sound" is spring-loaded and momentary.
  • The pulses to and from the top left write/recirc section are so much more fun than I expected.
  • The write/recirc switch makes a ton more sense to me now that I know that it's spring-loaded and momentary.
  • I don't super understand the "pitch" mode yet but it can sound kinda cool.
  • This replaces my 277r and I worried that it wouldn't be a great replacement but I was wrong. This is a great replacement for my 277r.
  • This module has leaked some noise in to the rest of my system but nothing unmanageable.
I probably should do a few demos of it soon but, of course, it immediately went in to the middle of a patch I don't want to lose yet...
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Last edited by njdoyle on Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Happyanimal
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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by Happyanimal » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:31 pm

njdoyle wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:43 am
I got one of the new 288v modules (I think the first one maybe). I've had it for two weeks or so.


IMG_1235.jpeg


The new version has a new envelope follower output in the auto control section (at least I think it's new).
New? Looks identical to the one he built for me back in 2015.

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by njdoyle » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:35 pm

Happyanimal wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:31 pm
New? Looks identical to the one he built for me back in 2015.
I personally haven't seen any others with the envelope follower output. There's also changes behind the panel: "better converters and memory addressing from the Multid-elay to the 288v".

This version is also super shallow (one PCB), my understanding is this used to be a pretty deep module behind the panel?

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by djs » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:17 pm

Care to share a picture of the backside?
"Noise is what the Earth is made of" - David Bowie

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by batchas » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:07 am

njdoyle wrote:The noise sounds good. I don't know how noisy the previous version was but this version is very usable.
Here's a perfect example of how the previous version sounds:

njdoyle wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:35 pm
I personally haven't seen any others with the envelope follower output.
What do you mean exactly with envelope follower output?
If you mean the envelope follower at the audio input A, sending out a pulse to arm it, it's always been there.
When I look at the panel I don't see any difference.
You mean an additional env. follower then, without controls, but where exactly?

It's good Mark improved it. I'd still miss a filter at the main output, but I guess he wanted to keep the panel design identical to the original...

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batchas
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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by batchas » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:26 am

Here's a video shoing what the envelope follower that I mentioned in my previous post is doing on the "older" 288v version (it does way more, and this video quality it's not very good, but I never finished the demo video I started with the 288v in 2014!):

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tIB
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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by tIB » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:51 am

Old 288v is huge behind the panel - triple stacked board iirc. Interested to hear what the newer one sounds like and whether CV control over speed in pitch mode is any better?

Love the 288v - it's a wonderful washing machine!

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by batchas » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:04 am

tIB wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:51 am
Old 288v is huge behind the panel - triple stacked board iirc.
Big sandwich.
Photo took in 2012. I don't remember the bench table looking so terrible!!!! No time to photoshop this :despair:

Image

For sure the back of the module must look totally different with SMDs!
Image
Image

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Re: Mark Verbos 288v Time Domain Processor

Post by njdoyle » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:32 am

Here's the envelope follower output I'm talking about:
EnvFollower.jpg

Here's the new boards:
IMG_1285.jpeg
IMG_1286.jpeg
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