EMS Synthi waiting list

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Ceres
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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by Ceres » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:49 am

seditionary wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:24 am
i'd be up for a clone
Me too! Not at all interested in the original or the expensive clones. I think those are all great but for what it is, I’m not remotely willing to drop that kind of cash. I’d be happy to have a fun, cheap compromise that is somewhere in the ballpark.
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by papz » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:55 am

Every trapezoid envelope needs a trapezoid suitcase. :nod:
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by jfloftin » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:13 am

KSS wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:39 am
jfloftin wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:13 am
Is there not a close Zero Halliburton case that could be used? If I'm not mistaken, you can pay them to make a custom case, albeit, the custom job is very expensive.
Yes. But most people want the case, not a case. The size, shape, look, feel of the original. Once you move past that, and accept something different, there many options.
Yes, I am in compete agreement with you. I want the Spartanite case as well. I am looking for one as we speak for my Synthi A when it eventually is built. The Zero I would get as a temperary solution only and not as a permanant case option.

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seditionary
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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by seditionary » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:10 am

KSS wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:39 am
jfloftin wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:13 am
Is there not a close Zero Halliburton case that could be used? If I'm not mistaken, you can pay them to make a custom case, albeit, the custom job is very expensive.
Yes. But most people want the case, not a case. The size, shape, look, feel of the original. Once you move past that, and accept something different, there many options.
Has Robin ever built one into a Halliburton? I wrote him about some other similarly dimensioned cases in the past and he said he's tried fitting them into other cases a couple other times, which he found "wholly unsuitable"

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by aquifer » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:52 pm

Well, I'd guess that Robin has a limited stock of the Synthi panels and would be reluctant to grind them down to fit individual choices. The other option would be to construct extrusions (on a larger case) to fit the panels in but that wouldn't' be an elegant solution either.
I've always imagined that somewhere in the stock room of a gentlemen's outfitters in London, there's a dusty cardboard box filled with Spartanite cases which never sold...

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by KSS » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:04 pm

aquifer wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:52 pm
The other option would be to construct extrusions (on a larger case) to fit the panels in but that wouldn't' be an elegant solution either.
I've always imagined that somewhere in the stock room of a gentlemen's outfitters in London, there's a dusty cardboard box filled with Spartanite cases which never sold...
Making a look-alike is almost simpler. Hobby level blow-vacuum forming over-into the cast mold -or an approximation made from measurements- gives the two half shells. ABS is available cheap and tough. The original was polypropylene AKA PP, which could aso be used. The overlapping mid band is a straight simply bent piece and the feet would be similarly vacuum molded and glued-ABS or plastic welded-PP to the half shells. Hinges, handle are both easily sourced. The Spartanite latches are the one place you'd need to compromise, as they're very unique. But Halliburton latches are available, work well, look classy and would easily substitute. That's it.

It's not a difficult thing to do. Making the half shell pattern is the hardest part. And that gets easier if 100% clone is thrown out. Made as described most people wouldn't notice the difference outside the latches.

The thing's not difficult, but it also won't be done for :75:

Much less the 10 pounds 10 shillings they cost in 1966, according to this DESIGN magazine page.
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MindMachine
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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by MindMachine » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:25 am

I would be interested to see some quotes for blow molding or any other process less expensive than injection molding a huge two piece like this. Amortize over 100-500 sets. The tolerances are very loose, so yeah injection is likely not the way to go for low numbers. The texture finish is the hard part for blow/roto.. I don't think any available dimensions have radii etc. Some Solidworks 3D or whatnot would need to be arranged after precise measurement/quotation. Maybe 20 hours of measure, layout and design for process. I know dudes that would do that for cheap if someone wants to invest their case and money.

I have some molding available in California and Taiwan. The acrylic nameplate could be made for not much (not sure about any trademarks, etc.). Hinges - you would likely have to design around new ones. Plus they won't be rusty like the originals.

It would be fun to get some actual prices for this case.
FS: Pedals and Euro modules, Delta Labs, dotcom Q128 for 37.00
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=233636&p=3287718&h ... e#p3287718

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by KSS » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:03 am

MindMachine wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:25 am
The texture finish is the hard part for blow/roto..
I wondered if this would come up when I typed Blow-vacuum molding. The blow-rotomolding you're talking about is a different process. Used to make Kayaks and large kids toys with some type of HDPE or plain PE. The huge mold spins around in 3 axis to distribute the melted plastic. Like an astronaut trainer or those multi gimballed rides you see at fairs. That's *not* what we want here.

Blow-Vacuum molding is simply vacuum molding with the added step of blowing first to pre-stretch the plastic sheet before vacuuming it into a mold or against a former. Using a former is cheaper -and better- for our need. The blow-vacuum process is used when the plastic is thick or the draw is deep. And sometimes due to material properties.

One reason to use a former rather than a mold is it preserves the existing textured finish of the sheet from the factory. The smooth side os drawn over the convex former, rather than the textured side drawn into the concave face of a mold.

The absolute toughest part is the middle band if you want it like the original. But even that isn't so tough if you -or the people doing it for you- know what they're doing.

Hinges are no problem.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by triplizard » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:48 pm

Or you could, you know, just go for the VCS3...

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by KSS » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:25 pm

triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:48 pm
Or you could, you know, just go for the VCS3...
These two are one of the cleanest-clearest answers to whether layout affects results. If you ever have the opportunity to play each, do so. You might surprise yourself to find that they *do* play differently. Even significantly so. Not because of the electronics, but because of the difference in layout, which even enters into how-where the synth is positioned.

Not too many VCS3's being played in someone's cross-legged lap.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by papz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:36 pm

Definitely.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by triplizard » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm

KSS wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:25 pm
triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:48 pm
Or you could, you know, just go for the VCS3...
These two are one of the cleanest-clearest answers to whether layout affects results. If you ever have the opportunity to play each, do so. You might surprise yourself to find that they *do* play differently. Even significantly so. Not because of the electronics, but because of the difference in layout, which even enters into how-where the synth is positioned.

Not too many VCS3's being played in someone's cross-legged lap.
To each his/her/their own - I have an Easel and I have played it my lap literally zero times. Just find it kind of funny how people are going through mental gymnastics about setting up their own injection molding systems when they could get literally the same synth in a slightly different configuration. I mean, if you're cross-legged on the floor you could put the AKS right there on the floor in front of you. :razz:

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by synthfanatic » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:04 pm

That's what the VCS3 is for.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by Portabella » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:47 am

triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm
Just find it kind of funny how people are going through mental gymnastics about setting up their own injection molding systems when they could get literally the same synth in a slightly different configuration....
Form is key.. Synthi is easy to take on a plane. VSC3 not so.. unless you buy one extra seat for it.
Not everyone around here is a hobbyist.. there's performing and touring artists around as well.
Don't be so ignorant

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by papz » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:06 am

The differences in playing are not slight and go far beyond the vertical or horizontal position indeed, the whole layout is different. It is not easy to figure out for someone who didn't play both the VCS3 and Synthi A(KS) but they are not the same instruments despite they share the same circuits and features. Synthi A, AKS, VCS3 and Music Easel are the instruments I play the most, I confirm 100% what KSS wrote and the Easel comparison is irrelevant.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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triplizard
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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by triplizard » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:15 pm

Well, it's unlikely I'll ever get to spend a significant amount of time with both so will take your word for it. I've been on the wait list for a VCS3 for 10 years or so and will be happy when it shows up.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by klang » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:50 am

Vcs3 is a work of art , furniture as much as an instrument and has such an amazing retro lab look.
Last edited by klang on Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by klang » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:53 am

Aks is pure The Man from U.N.C.L.E though , secret agent style

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MindMachine
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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by MindMachine » Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:10 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:03 am
MindMachine wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:25 am
The texture finish is the hard part for blow/roto..
I wondered if this would come up when I typed Blow-vacuum molding. The blow-rotomolding you're talking about is a different process. Used to make Kayaks and large kids toys with some type of HDPE or plain PE. The huge mold spins around in 3 axis to distribute the melted plastic. Like an astronaut trainer or those multi gimballed rides you see at fairs. That's *not* what we want here.

Blow-Vacuum molding is simply vacuum molding with the added step of blowing first to pre-stretch the plastic sheet before vacuuming it into a mold or against a former. Using a former is cheaper -and better- for our need. The blow-vacuum process is used when the plastic is thick or the draw is deep. And sometimes due to material properties.

One reason to use a former rather than a mold is it preserves the existing textured finish of the sheet from the factory. The smooth side os drawn over the convex former, rather than the textured side drawn into the concave face of a mold.

The absolute toughest part is the middle band if you want it like the original. But even that isn't so tough if you -or the people doing it for you- know what they're doing.

Hinges are no problem.
So how many should I quote you? Any process you want.
FS: Pedals and Euro modules, Delta Labs, dotcom Q128 for 37.00
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=233636&p=3287718&h ... e#p3287718

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by KSS » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:11 pm

@MindMachine
I don't understand your question or statement.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by Gringo Starr » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:53 pm

Portabella wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:47 am
triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm
Just find it kind of funny how people are going through mental gymnastics about setting up their own injection molding systems when they could get literally the same synth in a slightly different configuration....
Form is key.. Synthi is easy to take on a plane. VSC3 not so.. unless you buy one extra seat for it.
Not everyone around here is a hobbyist.. there's performing and touring artists around as well.
Don't be so ignorant
I wonder how many people tour with a synthi. I'd imagine not many.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by Portabella » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:21 am

Gringo Starr wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:53 pm
Portabella wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:47 am
triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm
Just find it kind of funny how people are going through mental gymnastics about setting up their own injection molding systems when they could get literally the same synth in a slightly different configuration....
Form is key.. Synthi is easy to take on a plane. VSC3 not so.. unless you buy one extra seat for it.
Not everyone around here is a hobbyist.. there's performing and touring artists around as well.
Don't be so ignorant
I wonder how many people tour with a synthi. I'd imagine not many.
so ?

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by synthichap » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:58 am

Gringo Starr wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:53 pm
Portabella wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:47 am
triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm
Just find it kind of funny how people are going through mental gymnastics about setting up their own injection molding systems when they could get literally the same synth in a slightly different configuration....
Form is key.. Synthi is easy to take on a plane. VSC3 not so.. unless you buy one extra seat for it.
Not everyone around here is a hobbyist.. there's performing and touring artists around as well.
Don't be so ignorant
I wonder how many people tour with a synthi. I'd imagine not many.
More than you might expect. I've traveled with an original AKS in the past and will travel with a Synthi once more when restrictions end.
That said, I would be more comfortable traveling with a "synthi" housed in a practically indestructible Explorer 4412 case than a vintage machine in a Spartanite. Even so, as long as you're careful with it, what can really happen?

The last time I traveled with the AKS was to perform at Berghain in Berlin as part of a Raster-Noton event. I met a fellow musician at the airport the next morning who could not believe I had done such a thing ;)

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Gringo Starr
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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by Gringo Starr » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:35 pm

synthichap wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:58 am
Gringo Starr wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:53 pm
Portabella wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:47 am
triplizard wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:24 pm
Just find it kind of funny how people are going through mental gymnastics about setting up their own injection molding systems when they could get literally the same synth in a slightly different configuration....
Form is key.. Synthi is easy to take on a plane. VSC3 not so.. unless you buy one extra seat for it.
Not everyone around here is a hobbyist.. there's performing and touring artists around as well.
Don't be so ignorant
I wonder how many people tour with a synthi. I'd imagine not many.
More than you might expect. I've traveled with an original AKS in the past and will travel with a Synthi once more when restrictions end.
That said, I would be more comfortable traveling with a "synthi" housed in a practically indestructible Explorer 4412 case than a vintage machine in a Spartanite. Even so, as long as you're careful with it, what can really happen?

The last time I traveled with the AKS was to perform at Berghain in Berlin as part of a Raster-Noton event. I met a fellow musician at the airport the next morning who could not believe I had done such a thing ;)
Ha, yeah I would be nervous traveling with such an expensive and hard to get piece of equipment. I’m sure the audience appreciated it though. ;)
Last edited by Gringo Starr on Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: EMS Synthi waiting list

Post by papz » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:55 pm

Almost all my gigs of the past decade were with a Synthi.
We toured in EU with Yoshio Machida in 2015 and 2018 with 3 Synthis : his, mine and a spare.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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