First Modular System -Buchla 200e - Suggestions?

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

First Modular System -Buchla 200e - Suggestions?

Post by methodius » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:22 pm

Hey folks .. !
just joined the forum .. 8_)

I decided I want to get an analog modular system .. was thinking to go the Eurorack route but with these new discounts happening (I randomly ran into these news while browsing this forum) i think i have changed my mind:)
I'm a sound design student .. and I thought a Buchla system would be forever out of my reach , money-wise ... but with these discounts in place I thought, **** it I'm going to run to bank asap, take a loan , hop on board the Buchla-spaceship and take the plunge :hihi:

Thought I would buy a system much later on but I guess now its the time.

So far I've used only Nord G1 & G2 .. along with software modulars. With which I think I have a fairly solid understanding on modular synthesis ...

For my first system I was thinking:

201e-18
210e
227e or 207 ?? for mixer duties .. recommendations?
223e
225e
230e
250e
251e
256e
259e
261e
266e or 267e ? recommendations? which one would you take and why ?
281e
285e
291e
292e
296e

that would make it 19 panels with the 207 included .. with 227 thats 20
so would need to remove something to make it fit into 18 , or then i could leave 223e out of the system to have more space but thought it might be good to have included in the boat .. opinions?

What changes would you make regarding these choices?
I'm new to Buchla systems so my understanding of the modules is fairly slim at this point so I would appreciate your input.
Which modules would you choose / leave out , and why?

Sorry quite many questions guys, but as I said, I'm new to Buchla-world.
Thanks in advance guys!

:nana:

User avatar
Bricks
paper kettle
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 2:59 am
Location: Hypermagic Mountain, USA

Post by Bricks » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:29 pm

"I'm a sound design student .."
"I'm going to run to bank asap, take a loan , hop on board the Buchla-spaceship and take the plunge "

My recommendation:
Do not do it.


If you're dead set on hardware, start small. 3U at first at most. In euro:

Maths.
some analog oscillator.
Honda or e350.
Boogie or Borg.
some good 2-4x VCA
mixer
maybe a random source.

You could find those all used on the board in no time.

Whatever you do, do not put yourself in any debt for a modular.

User avatar
angora
Common Wiggler
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:54 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by angora » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:38 pm

Bricks wrote:Whatever you do, do not put yourself in any debt for a modular.
QFT. Take that the money and get an undergrad in statistic, then get a job where they will pay for part or all of your MBA. Buy a skylab cash with your 1st bonus.

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:40 pm

thanks for your reply.
Actually I can get the funds very soon even without any bank loans, just if I want to be in time for the discount I will need to borrow a part of it.
My finances are on very solid ground this investment will not be a problem for me.
Maybe I made it sound overly dramatic, lol.
Thought I'd go for maximum quality right on day 1 as I know I will be making music for life. And I already make enough money doing it ... so I can justify the investment.

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:45 pm

so yeah if there's some other reason to not take the plunge .. except losing social life:) .. you can let me know .. but money is not one of them at the moment.
and anyway with those discounts, I think it'll hold it's value pretty well, even... if i decided to sell it some point. which I very much doubt I will...

science
Spending Spree!
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:01 am

Post by science » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:57 pm

If you're looking for an analog modular, you might want to do a little more research on what the 200e system actually is before going into debt to buy one :omg:

Potential troll?

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:01 pm

whatever small debt i'd need to get .. it'd be paid back in 2 weeks. so you can ignore the debt part of this endeavour:)

any suggestions on topic ?

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:05 pm

I've done research on analog modulars .. and thought a Buchla system would be a good choice, albeit expensive. Aside from money matters, why the discouragement ?
And as for timing of the purchase, I think now it's the time, no?
However, if you have some link to the manuals of each module, I'd like to take a closer look, sure.

GeneralBigBag
My codename's Happy Harry, I'm Into CV
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:30 pm

Post by GeneralBigBag » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:36 pm

Now is the time, but the Buchla 200e series is substantially digital in a lot of places.

User avatar
Gringo Starr
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:33 pm
Location: United States

Post by Gringo Starr » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:01 pm

If you EVER want to get a Buchla system now is the time. If you have the cash and can spend it then do it.
Weed only gives you the illusion that it’s enhancing your creativity.

User avatar
mike sheridan
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: denmark

Post by mike sheridan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:27 pm

do it, do it, do it, do it! :guinness:
www.soundcloud.com/mikesheridan
_____________________________

User avatar
dkcg
I pity the fool w/o enough VCAs
Posts: 9142
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: LA

Post by dkcg » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:14 pm

I'd look at a Kyma just as seriously as a 200e if I were a sound design student. Probably a lot more sound design done with the Kyma than the 200e.

a 200e + kyma would be heavenly.

If the musical side of sound design is what you're most interested in, the 200e is great at that. If you want to do things like Wall-E's voice, cats in heat morphing into a pack of dogs (not just fading, morphing), stuff like sound design for sound effects like in the movies, the Kyma would probably land you a job quicker than a Buchla. But the 200e is a sexy beast...

At least this weekend, the price gap between the 200e and euro has been narrowed. Call them and find out what they suggest too. And make sure they have a boat in stock. It used to take 6 months to a year to get a system after you ordered it, so you might want to find out the logistics of starting a new system to avoid any surprise disappointment, like 18 modules and no boat to put them in.
:lol:

chrisso
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 11:59 pm

Re: First Modular System -Buchla 200e - Suggestions?

Post by chrisso » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:26 pm

methodius wrote: For my first system I was thinking:

201e-18
210e
227e or 207 ?? for mixer duties .. recommendations?
223e
225e
230e
250e
251e
256e
259e
261e
266e or 267e ? recommendations? which one would you take and why ?
281e
285e
291e
292e
296e

that would make it 19 panels with the 207 included ..

I'm new to Buchla systems so my understanding of the modules is fairly slim at this point

Total madness!!!!!!
If you must, buy a 6 panel boat and three or four modules to start.
I actually think Euiro is much better for sound design due to the wide variety of esoteric and adventurous designs available.
I don't agree that this is the only opportunity to buy 200e. There are used systems and used modules in the FST forum all the time.
My advice - don't do it. Or... do it small, definitely not an entire ENORMO system in one go with limited research.

User avatar
BHC303
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1755
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Gold Coast Australia

Post by BHC303 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:50 am

That configuration is like a wet dream, if I could blow a load like that I would be a happy man!

Take the 227e lose the 207e

Take the 266e and lose the 267e

You could probably do without the 251e if you plan to use your computer with the the 225e.

The 257e (not yest listed but available) would be a nice addition too :tu:

Please keep us posted!
Dmmavar wrote:what do I need to get into drones
Pighood wrote:A bees nest and a small container of corn syrup.

sandyb

Post by sandyb » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:34 am

methodius wrote:I've done research on analog modulars .. and thought a Buchla system would be a good choice, albeit expensive. Aside from money matters, why the discouragement ?
And as for timing of the purchase, I think now it's the time, no?
However, if you have some link to the manuals of each module, I'd like to take a closer look, sure.
it's already been said but you make a point about it being an *analogue* modular. the 200e is about the least analogue modular you can get.

that's not to say that this is a bad thing. i loved the digital fucked up-ness of the 200e when i had my one. but it does have practical differences and some negatives. try fm'ing a 259e with an external oscillator for example and you'll see what i mean.

is it the time to buy one? if you have done your research, know what you want and why then sure it is. the current prices are attractive.

however, your posts read like you haven't really done this. just because it's cheaper than normal doesn't mean a 200e is for you now. your module list is pretty much a pick one of everything job. while it would be a nice system i think you would find it lacking in things like vcas and envelopes/function generators. you don't even mention what you wish to achieve with a modular. one of the first important steps to planning out any system.

don't take all the posts by everyone here as negative. lots of people here have significant experience with buchla (and other) systems. "jumping in at the deep end" purchases by new modular users are rarely thought out well and inevitably end up in disappointment. we're trying to help you not make a potentially big mistake.

by all means take advantage of the current sale. but buy small. 6 modules is plenty. there are a number of threads on small systems in this subforum - do a search. use that for a while and add to it if you find it is what you really want.

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:04 am

BHC303 wrote:That configuration is like a wet dream, if I could blow a load like that I would be a happy man!

Take the 227e lose the 207e

Take the 266e and lose the 267e

You could probably do without the 251e if you plan to use your computer with the the 225e.

The 257e (not yest listed but available) would be a nice addition too :tu:

Please keep us posted!

seems sensible , was thinking of the 266e and 227e myself ... and yes I would use the system alongside computers, although I'd like it to be 'self-contained' as well , for just jamming out with ...
BEMI hasn't yet answered me about my order / reservation though.. and i might drop some more modules out still , and I guess buying used would also be an option. I think i'd go with 18 panel boat anyway to begin with.

I don't mind fairly complex systems.. and many modules .. I have loads of free time to spend (i think in music making, earning yourself enough free time is the most important thing - gear goes wayyy after..) as at the moment my main work is organizing a festival ... which is , once a year ^^

Had considered Kyma system before, but I use computers so much already, in everything.. and I come from guitar / piano background so I'd rather have something that feels like a musical instrument .. which I can use without mouse etc.

Thanks for replies guys.

User avatar
Morley
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2935
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:55 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Morley » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:12 am

If you can, why not!
Having said that, I have found that I would prefer to have a few smaller complete systems. For example a complete but smaller Buchla along with something like a Fenix II and a couple of Serge panels. It just gives more flavour and as the principles are the same more or less, translating what you learn to another system is easy enough.
Locking yourself into one system can be good if that becomes your voice BUT I prefer the flexibility to excite my ears with a few options.
I have had loads of systems and many big ones but for working have ended up with a relatively small setup that gives me all I need (as far as modulars go Fenix II/III, ARP 2600, VCS3). Sometimes systems can be too big. Really!

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:30 am

sandyb wrote:
it's already been said but you make a point about it being an *analogue* modular. the 200e is about the least analogue modular you can get.

that's not to say that this is a bad thing. i loved the digital fucked up-ness of the 200e when i had my one. but it does have practical differences and some negatives. try fm'ing a 259e with an external oscillator for example and you'll see what i mean.

is it the time to buy one? if you have done your research, know what you want and why then sure it is. the current prices are attractive.

however, your posts read like you haven't really done this. just because it's cheaper than normal doesn't mean a 200e is for you now. your module list is pretty much a pick one of everything job. while it would be a nice system i think you would find it lacking in things like vcas and envelopes/function generators. you don't even mention what you wish to achieve with a modular. one of the first important steps to planning out any system.

don't take all the posts by everyone here as negative. lots of people here have significant experience with buchla (and other) systems. "jumping in at the deep end" purchases by new modular users are rarely thought out well and inevitably end up in disappointment. we're trying to help you not make a potentially big mistake.

by all means take advantage of the current sale. but buy small. 6 modules is plenty. there are a number of threads on small systems in this subforum - do a search. use that for a while and add to it if you find it is what you really want.
I'm no analogue purist .. and was aware that there's many digital parts and 259e is fully digital (?). But from the demos I've heard , sounds nicely fluid and analogue-ish, don't you think? ... and I don't think I could replicate accurately many of those sounds that easily with software , don't you think? .. I use Aalto , ACE, Bazille, Zebra a lot , but seems that there is a difference in sound , sure , with Buchla.
And I really like the preset saving idea of 200e.

As for what I'd use it for .. would be mostly in the realms of more experimental 'psychedelic' trance .. and techno. The Nord's I mostly used cause I liked their ability to do FM-stuff..with good degree of flexibility.. guess with Buchla I'd look for some similar fm-ish bell-ish sounds. More Percussive stuff .. I'm happy with software for soundscapes etc...

And yes , if the sale wasn't on, I'd start with much less modules, sure. But I think it's likely I'd expand it anyway so if I'll get the funds easily, and in time I might just as well do it now.

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:35 am

Morley wrote:If you can, why not!
Having said that, I have found that I would prefer to have a few smaller complete systems. For example a complete but smaller Buchla along with something like a Fenix II and a couple of Serge panels. It just gives more flavour and as the principles are the same more or less, translating what you learn to another system is easy enough.
Locking yourself into one system can be good if that becomes your voice BUT I prefer the flexibility to excite my ears with a few options.
I have had loads of systems and many big ones but for working have ended up with a relatively small setup that gives me all I need (as far as modulars go Fenix II/III, ARP 2600, VCS3). Sometimes systems can be too big. Really!
Yeah , well I thought I'd limit myself to a 18 panel system :-) I don't want to have a wall full of modules .. seems counterproductive to me.

If you'd take a 12 panel system instead .. with 223e outside the boat.. what modules would you leave out ?

User avatar
Morley
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2935
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:55 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by Morley » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:43 am

I'm not fully aware of the modern modules but I had a Buchla 200 with

2 x 258
1 x 212
1 x 245
1 x 295
1 x 217 keyboard

I found it a superb system that was very well balanced. I could have added a quad envelope and other stuff but it felt like a complete instrument.

I like exploring everything fully and discovering ways to solve a potential lack of modules.
I guess my suggestion is to get a solid core and see what you feel you need to work with.
It is very personal though. Perhaps you already are sure of your needs, in which case go for it. I prefer a variety of complete but manageable systems.
It's all good though! Grab stuff and start tweaking :-)

I might add that I am also one of those less enamoured with the 200e stuff. Some is great, other stuff just not doing it for me. I prefer the earlier purer stuff.

chrisso
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 11:59 pm

Post by chrisso » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:59 am

Sandyb and Morley are two of the most experienced modular owners here. I would read their posts again. I think they give GREAT advice.
Because it's expensive, people without hands on experience think 200e is the Rolls Royce of modular.
I find Euro more exciting personally.
But like David, I have a smallish original Buchla system, a Fenix and about a dozen a Euro modules.

sandyb

Post by sandyb » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:17 am

methodius wrote: I'm no analogue purist .. and was aware that there's many digital parts and 259e is fully digital (?). But from the demos I've heard , sounds nicely fluid and analogue-ish, don't you think? ... and I don't think I could replicate accurately many of those sounds that easily with software , don't you think? .. I use Aalto , ACE, Bazille, Zebra a lot , but seems that there is a difference in sound , sure , with Buchla.
pretty much all digital with the odd exception - e.g. the waveshaper section on the 261e.
200e is definitely capable of a wide range of sounds, both digital and analogue in nature. keep in mind a lot of the videos you may have watched are probably utilising some of the 3rd party buchla format modules available as well.
could you replicate 200e sounds with something else? you could get pretty close. i reckon a smallish euro system with the right modules would get me into 200e sound territory pretty quickly if i patched it to do so.

here are a couple of examples from ages back that i think have a 200e sort of quality to them. both using a harvestman hertz donut oscillator.




And I really like the preset saving idea of 200e.
this is probably one of the most compelling arguments in favour of a 200e. particularly if you are going to use it live.
As for what I'd use it for .. would be mostly in the realms of more experimental 'psychedelic' trance .. and techno. The Nord's I mostly used cause I liked their ability to do FM-stuff..with good degree of flexibility.. guess with Buchla I'd look for some similar fm-ish bell-ish sounds. More Percussive stuff .. I'm happy with software for soundscapes etc...
well. buchla can do that ok. but so can any other modular system! once you have core modules it's as much to do with your patching as it is the format you use.
And yes , if the sale wasn't on, I'd start with much less modules, sure. But I think it's likely I'd expand it anyway so if I'll get the funds easily, and in time I might just as well do it now.
you said in your first post you were going to go euro. i honestly think for a new person entering the modular world today that is probably the best option. so much to try out and learn what does and doesn't work for you. you may think you know that already but nobody does when they're starting out! systems evolve and change over time as we learn our preferences, patching style, likes and dislikes.

but if you really think buchla is what you have to have then do it. just start smaller as i said previously. you may spend a little more money in the long term but you'll end up with something that really works for you rather than a rushed purchase that may not.

User avatar
pjoris
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:55 pm
Location: Leuven - Belgium

Post by pjoris » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:29 am

One issue is: you don't seem to be patient guy. I'm not either, even though I'd like an easel I'm glad I haven't order one because of this.

I understand at the best of times ordering anything from Buchla is a 6 month wait ... With the easel & sale I can't really see this type of order being delivered within one year - but I might be wrong. Can you realy plunk half of this down and then wait modularless for that time. I know I couldn't. If you really want this I think you should try getting this on the for sale forum.

Joris

User avatar
Gringo Starr
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:33 pm
Location: United States

Post by Gringo Starr » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:09 pm

Even though I totally support jumping into the deep end I will say that there are definitely some good points here. A year ago I got my very first modular system. It's a Modcan B system. A fellow Wiggler helped me design it because I was a total Noob and had no idea what I was doing. Watching his videos he has a totally different style than me but I was to Noob-ish to realize that. Almost a year later, and with a Serge System that followed shortly after that, I know enough about modulars to know that I would have never designed a Modcan system like that had I known what I now know. So there is something to starting small. However if you feel the urge to jump in deep waters then go for it. I totally understand. If it was me I'd do it. But I'm an ex-drug addict :roll: and my addictive personality always gets the best of me. Always! But at least I have them focused on things that won't kill me. So, be careful who you take advice from. :twisted:
Weed only gives you the illusion that it’s enhancing your creativity.

User avatar
methodius
Common Wiggler
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Finland

Post by methodius » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:07 pm

thanks for your replies and insight guys .. however .. i must say that , with the discounts in place, im already decided on getting a larger system.
especially if they are fine with 50% deposit, then theres zero problem with money, even.
(BEMI hasn't answered my mails yet...)

So I would say its more of a question of module choice.
I think for my needs this system would seem fairly optimal:

201e -18,
201e -3u,
210e,
223e,
225e,
227e,
230e,
250e,
256e,
259e,
261e, x2
266e,
281e,
285e,
291e,
292e,
296e,

call it madness or whatever .. but i think this system should keep me happily busy for a while. 8_)
and yeah maybe im not that patient guy , but it's nice know that theres a proper christmas coming at some point in the near future .. 8_)

Post Reply

Return to “Buchla, EMS & Serge”