structure in noise

Discussing gear, production, and ideas for making noise music. Enough JMJ, let's rock like Merzbow!

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vqlk
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structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:26 pm

i mean harsh noise etc., not power noise -- which someone recently said was "all about repetition"



this is a classic MB recording -- my favourite of his, from memory. i can't tell you how it's structured for me, but it is. it seems self contained, even-though it doesn't seem like a "composition" exactly

so yeah, can noise be structured? if so what makes it noise? etc.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by Bataserpa » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:49 pm

I wouldn’t call this a harsh noise record, more like a drone with lots of delay in it. I don’t think noise and composition are far from each other. Just because a noise piece does not have notes or melody doesn’t mean is not composed. Actually nothing is 100% improvisation, such a thing does existed, if somebody is playing some instrument or something that produce sounds, it’s not aleatory.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

i do not mean 'compose' as opposed to improvisation, but an approach to working with gear which emphasises a lack of forethought more generally.

yes, improvisation can achieve this.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by wuff_miggler » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:07 pm

I think the "Rhythmic Noise" genre is all about structuring noise

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Re: structure in noise

Post by SIN_formant_A1472V » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:20 pm

I think noise can be structured, it's really funny, that whole anti-music, non-music notion you find in noise, but then there is this real rigid classification of what that entails.
A lot of the actual real world noise around us is dynamic in nature so noise as music can be that way, too.

I had done a few noise recordings on somebody's tape label, collaborations actually, but the main issue I had with that person's way of working was how uninteresting it was, in fact, I'd say it was way too structured, because it was the same thing every time.

His algorithm was basically a) select a sound source, b) input sound source into a massive pedal chain c) record it straight to tape.

He was completely against any sort of production like multi-tracking, or using actual instruments (no guitars, no synths), and all these other vague rules. Fuck, he also didn't like Merzbow because that was -don't laugh- Merzbow was too mainstream. Oh, and he forbid me from ever bringing a laptop over for a recording. It's like cool, fuck the skillsets, too. Oh and he rocked a handlebar mustache, sooooooo..........haha

Everything came out the same. I was interested in more randomness, more of a dynamic of fluctuating intensity.

As far as how that pertains to structure in noise, I think systems exist everywhere, and if you say that one way of working is non-systematic, non-structured, it's just kind of denying the fact that it's near impossible to create without structure. Everything that is art is framed as art in one way or another, as much as Joseph Beuys or someone like that might want to disagree. To say that one approach is anti-music and another is too conventional, it just creates a situation of counter-hegemony, where one system, the alleged non-system, overpowers the traditional/conventional system. The result is the same, it just becomes stale and trite. I think it's important to just shut things off, shut the mind off, and then just go from there, especially for noise, which arguably has roots in free jazz/improvised music and punk. Your personality is what should shine through, like the mind of the creator is what will come out in any sort of project, whether one wants to deny that or not, it's still the fact of the matter.

I'd personally want to listen to something composed and structured than somebody just running a cassette into a pedal chain and recording it. I don't think you need to think in terms of notes, but at its essence you are dealing with frequencies along a timeline, so there is a lot that can be structured right there in a noise recording. Plus, there is the ethical/sociopolitical/cultural aspects of a project, which also forces a sort of structure.

One of the unrelease noise pieces I recorded consisted of a dvd player running the first 30 minutes of saving private ryan into a pedal chain that was a metal zone, a dissonant harmonizer, and then a fuzz pedal. That was channel one, a couple trogotronic boxes were then ran into a variety of things and recorded, those were channels 2 and 3, and then channel 4 was a contact mic attached to scrap metal fed into a mixer, headphone jack fed into channel two, and then the output into a distortion pedal. That is incredibly structured, but the music just sounded like chaos.

I guess ultimately, the notion of structure is relevant to the mind of the individual artist.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:43 pm

the notion of structure is relevant to the mind of the individual artist.
yeah i agree. for me, it isn't down to how much variation there is, but whether the variation that there is makes something more than that. the noise equivalent of making you want to dance, i guess

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Re: structure in noise

Post by sparood » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:55 pm

SIN_formant_A1472V wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:20 pm
His algorithm was basically a) select a sound source, b) input sound source into a massive pedal chain c) record it straight to tape.

I'd personally want to listen to something composed and structured than somebody just running a cassette into a pedal chain and recording it. I don't think you need to think in terms of notes, but at its essence you are dealing with frequencies along a timeline, so there is a lot that can be structured right there in a noise recording. Plus, there is the ethical/sociopolitical/cultural aspects of a project, which also forces a sort of structure.
Sound like standard HNW practice :foul: Yep agreed, if you don't put in effort in your music, what's the point really?

I don't think I understand what OP really wants? Do you want recommendations based on that M.B. album? Because a discussion about structure in noise is pretty pointless, some people like it, some people don't. Some noise is structured, some noise isn't structured. Some noise is based on improvisation, some noise is well thought out, layered and composed.
Last edited by sparood on Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm

sparood wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:55 pm
SIN_formant_A1472V wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:20 pm
His algorithm was basically a) select a sound source, b) input sound source into a massive pedal chain c) record it straight to tape.

I'd personally want to listen to something composed and structured than somebody just running a cassette into a pedal chain and recording it. I don't think you need to think in terms of notes, but at its essence you are dealing with frequencies along a timeline, so there is a lot that can be structured right there in a noise recording. Plus, there is the ethical/sociopolitical/cultural aspects of a project, which also forces a sort of structure.
Sound like standard HNW practice :foul: Yep agreed, if you don't put in effort in your music, what's the point really?
punk?

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sparood
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Re: structure in noise

Post by sparood » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:05 pm

Ever been to a punk concert and not seen the artist sweat?

Simplicity or maybe rather a rudimentary approach to sound or structure does not mean no effort.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:09 pm

that's what i meant, though i've never been a punk concert lol

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Re: structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:06 pm

I don't think I understand what OP really wants?
'noise' and 'structure' -- discuss. that's all, and it's not -- for me -- monumentally broad.

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Re: structure in noise

Post by vqlk » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:42 pm

wait, i went to an ill devo gig :D

:D

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