no-input mixer experience

Discussing gear, production, and ideas for making noise music. Enough JMJ, let's rock like Merzbow!

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felixer
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Post by felixer » Thu May 24, 2018 3:58 pm

i think i described my setup before. but her it is (again): the basis is an old vermona 2*10band eq. a really old one with inductors and no ic's. to get it to feedback i use two ART tube mp's. for gain and also because i need to flip the phase. those have jackoutputs (going to the input of the eq) and xlr outputs (going to the mixer for amplification) usually there is some fx in the feedback loop. either before the preamp (gitarboxes) or after it (line level stuff).
that's it. pretty portable and very easy/clear to work with. i'm guessing any decent eq/preamp combi will do the trick. although obviously the inductors do have an influence on the sound. it goes very deep, freq.wise. and you can get nice am effects if you open up the lowest octave. that's how i make bird/insect sounds.
those vermona's go for less then 100 euro on ebay. good old eastgerman technology. will prob hold untill the end of times. and easy to fix if something should go wrong (all thru-hole parts ofcourse and a classical psu).
maybe scrachy faders are harder to replace.
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

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notmiserlouagain
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Post by notmiserlouagain » Fri May 25, 2018 1:21 am

Hey yes I have that old Vermona 2010 eq too, disassembled for a couple of years now :roll: since yes the old faders are totally crapped out...

Always thinking of recalculating the frequencies for a Serge ResEQ distribution or upgrading to opamps (because the transistor circuit is not that good /headroom). Best would probably to drop in faders and a couple new electrolytics and use it stock...

Thanks felixer for describing your setup!
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felixer
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Post by felixer » Fri May 25, 2018 10:12 am

i don't think the freq. are all that important. each band is pretty wide. not for surgical eq. everything interacts and that is prob the key to it's nice sound.
used it for a while to beef up weak sounds. could do with another in fact.
that said the serge is interesting but i never tried one ... his spacing in seventh instead of oktaves prob means it is much sharper in response. i do have some older mxr eq's i could experiment with. but now i'm waiting for my lyra8 to arrive. another not soo exact tool i have high hopes for ...
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

cracklehunter
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NIMB Feedback Loop & Waveform Shaping

Post by cracklehunter » Sat May 26, 2018 2:32 am

Hi,

I use a Behringer 802, Zoom G1Next and Behringer HM300 to create no input feedback loops. If no input technique turns a mixer board into a crude synthesized, is it possible to treat each channel feedloop as a separate oscillator to create individual waveforms like in a synthesizer - sine, square, saw tooth, pulse, etc? And if it is possible, are there any specific pedals for each waveform?

Let me know your take.

Thanks.

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felixer
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Post by felixer » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:37 am

a dist/fuzz type pedal turns everything into a sort of squarewave.
filtering away overtones should get you in the direction of a sine.
but much easier to get some standard vco, if you want those.
btw lyra has arrived. and it sounds great, but nothing like feedback. feedback in the lyra means fm.
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

cracklehunter
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Post by cracklehunter » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:07 am

felixer wrote:a dist/fuzz type pedal turns everything into a sort of squarewave.
filtering away overtones should get you in the direction of a sine.
but much easier to get some standard vco, if you want those.
btw lyra has arrived. and it sounds great, but nothing like feedback. feedback in the lyra means fm.
That's interesting. Could you please explain how to go about filtering the overtones? Is it possible with pedals? I have not used VCO's till now in my no input practice. As of now, my main focus is to use mixer, pedals, exposed audio jacks and tape instruments to create corroded or minimal noise.

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felixer
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Post by felixer » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:24 pm

easiest i just eq. then comes some vcf that can follow the frequencies your playing. that's only practicle if that source is a vco. methods of following pitch tend to be either slow or imprecise. often both.
i'd just get a good parametric eq and adjust for every case. maybe get a big knob for the freq to make it easier to grab. i'm sure there are some pedals that do that. a grafic prob isn't precise enough.
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

cracklehunter
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Post by cracklehunter » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:52 am

felixer wrote:easiest i just eq. then comes some vcf that can follow the frequencies your playing. that's only practicle if that source is a vco. methods of following pitch tend to be either slow or imprecise. often both.
i'd just get a good parametric eq and adjust for every case. maybe get a big knob for the freq to make it easier to grab. i'm sure there are some pedals that do that. a grafic prob isn't precise enough.
Okay. So parametric is better than graphic? And also, does it help tusing an octave pedal?

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felixer
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Post by felixer » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:52 am

you don't need a fully parametric one. just a highcut and the freq where that starts. and make that as sharp a cutoff as possible. might want to consider a 24 dB/oct moog-type thing. most eq's have a rather shallower cutoff, say 6 or 12 dB/oct. and for conventional eq work that is better as to not be too intrusive on the sound. often gentle eq is what is needed with moderate slopes.
octave pedals come in many flavours. the old ones simple make a squarewave an oct below and let you mix that with the original. newer ones are in fact harmonizers (like the whammy pedal and it's derivatives). it will not help you to get cleaner waveshapes.
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

cracklehunter
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Post by cracklehunter » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:53 am

felixer wrote:you don't need a fully parametric one. just a highcut and the freq where that starts. and make that as sharp a cutoff as possible. might want to consider a 24 dB/oct moog-type thing. most eq's have a rather shallower cutoff, say 6 or 12 dB/oct. and for conventional eq work that is better as to not be too intrusive on the sound. often gentle eq is what is needed with moderate slopes.
octave pedals come in many flavours. the old ones simple make a squarewave an oct below and let you mix that with the original. newer ones are in fact harmonizers (like the whammy pedal and it's derivatives). it will not help you to get cleaner waveshapes.
Thank you bro. Really helpful advice.

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