Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

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Sugarfree
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Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Sugarfree » Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:55 pm

A new addition to 5U has been announced. It looks like a proposition for people who love the high density of Euro but insist on 1/4" jacks.

What do you guys think? Yes? No?

Image

Multifunction Daisy DSP based module

The multi-function Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP Module is capable of the following functions simultaneously in a single width module:
1) Voltage Controlled Amplifier (VCA)
2) ADSR Envelope Generator (with additional AR generator output).
3) One of the following additional modes:
* Voltage Controlled Oscillator with multiple waveforms/modes.
* Voltage Control Filter – 24dB/Octave Ladder Filter
* 2 Second Digital Delay with voltage controlled delay time modulation.
* Digital Reverb with 12dB/Octave High Pass filter, 12 dB/Octave Low Pass filter (damping) and VC “size” modulation.
* Dual Resonant 6 dB/Octave bandpass filter with variable resonance and wet/dry mix as well as VC modulation of the first resonant filter center frequency.

https://www.modulargrid.net/d/zebra-syn ... -daisy-dsp
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Dave Peck » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:35 pm

Hmm. I dunno. I'm not opposed to multifunction DSP modules in MU (more of them would be better!) but this one seems to have an odd combination of features and controls. The ADSR takes up half of the panel and it seems it might be better to leave that out and maybe use the space for a couple of additional effects CV controls & inputs. Just my opinion.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Sugarfree » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:47 pm

on the plus side, it doesn't have a menu.
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Putte » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:59 pm

We´re getting more multifunctional modules. Didn´t I just see one SEM like a few weeks ago, a whole synthesizer in a 5U package. It may be the historian in me, but aren´t we getting closer to what happened 50 years ago? Then, it took decades for the modulars to come back.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:11 pm

Putte wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:59 pm
We´re getting more multifunctional modules. Didn´t I just see one SEM like a few weeks ago, a whole synthesizer in a 5U package. It may be the historian in me, but aren´t we getting closer to what happened 50 years ago? Then, it took decades for the modulars to come back.
Yea, but the attention span of today's consumer about equals that of a gnat. The "come-n-go" waves of fluctuation are much shorter today. It used to be "here today, gone tomorrow" ... now it's "here today, gone later today".
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by KSS » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:10 pm

And back tomorrow. Or just a few 'days'
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by ba1 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:34 pm

Not usually a big fan of digital modules, especially EGs. They tend to be a little too precise for my tastes. Looks nice though. The jacks might be a little small. Usually 3 side by side will be snug up against each other.

Functionally I'm not opposed to the EG and VCA being included, especially if they can be used independently. I currently have 10 EGs and 11 VCAs and I still run out. They could be especially useful with the filters. Some might use them for the effects. I'm more likely to set and forget reverb. For delay, I wanna control the repeats and depth. Would be great if the EG looped. I'd prefer a CV input for the decay over the AR out.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by ba1 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:49 pm

Yeah, this might generate more interest if it were a 2U module with more extensive control over the different modes.

Sorry to be so finicky. Nice to see a new manufacturer in MU!

What's the price?

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Thorsday » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:40 pm

Sugarfree wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:55 pm
A new addition to 5U has been announced. It looks like a proposition for people who love the high density of Euro but insist on 1/4" jacks.

What do you guys think? Yes? No?

Image

Multifunction Daisy DSP based module

The multi-function Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP Module is capable of the following functions simultaneously in a single width module:
1) Voltage Controlled Amplifier (VCA)
2) ADSR Envelope Generator (with additional AR generator output).
3) One of the following additional modes:
* Voltage Controlled Oscillator with multiple waveforms/modes.
* Voltage Control Filter – 24dB/Octave Ladder Filter
* 2 Second Digital Delay with voltage controlled delay time modulation.
* Digital Reverb with 12dB/Octave High Pass filter, 12 dB/Octave Low Pass filter (damping) and VC “size” modulation.
* Dual Resonant 6 dB/Octave bandpass filter with variable resonance and wet/dry mix as well as VC modulation of the first resonant filter center frequency.

https://www.modulargrid.net/d/zebra-syn ... -daisy-dsp
Zebra Synth... Are they the same plugin developer?

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by bwhittington » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:23 pm

:russian:

Wow, glad it exists for those craving 'density', but it could be the most amazing sounding module ever and I would still be scared off by that crammed panel.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by josaka » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:22 am

pointless...

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Sir Ruff » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:25 pm

Putte wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:59 pm
We´re getting more multifunctional modules. Didn´t I just see one SEM like a few weeks ago, a whole synthesizer in a 5U package. It may be the historian in me, but aren´t we getting closer to what happened 50 years ago? Then, it took decades for the modulars to come back.
That's the Oakley ASV, and it's by no means "crammed". As much space as you would expect from any MU module. I had Davies knobs on mine as well, which, while not "accurate" looked and felt great.

this thing... i'm intrigued by the idea of having envelope control of reverb, that could sound very cool. But yeah, two rows of small knobs, no thanks. i already cringe slightly when trying to use the same types of knobs on the .com LFO++, but there there are only 2 x 2, so not terrible. here again, Davies knobs would be welcome, but then we start breaking with the whole MU aesthetic.
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by MuadMusic » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 pm

Thorsday wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:40 pm


Zebra Synth... Are they the same plugin developer?
Different. Zebra Synth is the brand, not a VST product. No confusion is intended here. This is strictly a hardware offering.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by MuadMusic » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:25 pm
Davies knobs would be welcome, but then we start breaking with the whole MU aesthetic.
I'll be happy to deliver yours with Davies Knobs. What color(s) would you like?

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by MuadMusic » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:26 pm

This module is currently available on ebay. If you order directly (via PM) and pay via Paypal, I'll knock off 10% and throw in free shipping in the continental U.S.

http://ebay.us/oSg9nX?cmpnId=5338273189

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by MuadMusic » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:38 pm

Everyone: Thanks for the feedback! It will definitely influence our further development.

A word about the knobs (quantity/spacing).

It is true that there is not enough space side to side (horizontally) between the knobs to allow adult fingers to turn the knob. On the other hand, it is *easy* to put a finger on top and a thumb on the bottom (or vice versa). I've got plenty of hours on both Euro and Dotcom formats. MU/Dotcom is my favorite format because of the spaciousness of the controls on the panel. I spent the time required to get the vertical spacing right on the knobs. I find that the spacing is comfortable and not a distraction/frustration, when I'm grasping the knobs top and bottom.

Moreover, my beta testers have not complained at all about cramped spacing.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Sugarfree » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:17 pm

I think the questions you need to ask is: Does the benefit of tighter space outweights the reduced comfort of small knobs? Are you ok with your design being harder to use?
The biggest advantage of MU is that it's more standardized than Euro. You don't want one module to be harder to operate than others. If you look at larger MU systems from reputable brands (e.g. Moon, Oakley), it's clear that Z506 should have been 2-units wide.
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by KSS » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:26 am

Sugarfree wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:17 pm
I think the questions you need to ask is: Does the benefit of tighter space outweights the reduced comfort of small knobs? Are you ok with your design being harder to use?
The biggest advantage of MU is that it's more standardized than Euro. You don't want one module to be harder to operate than others. If you look at larger MU systems from reputable brands (e.g. Moon, Oakley), it's clear that Z506 should have been 2-units wide.
Then there's this. Is Roger a "reputable brand" in MU?
edit: Moon's 501M and 543E are not much better. 543E moreso. When patched its knobs will be harder to use than the Z506 /edit
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Thorsday » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:31 am

KSS wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:26 am
Sugarfree wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:17 pm
I think the questions you need to ask is: Does the benefit of tighter space outweights the reduced comfort of small knobs? Are you ok with your design being harder to use?
The biggest advantage of MU is that it's more standardized than Euro. You don't want one module to be harder to operate than others. If you look at larger MU systems from reputable brands (e.g. Moon, Oakley), it's clear that Z506 should have been 2-units wide.
---
Then there's this. Is Roger a "reputable brand" in MU?
Like a couple of my Euro conversions... dotcom ++ series sucks to wiggle, by comparison to Oakley/Krisp 1 and others. I also want to say that if the module is a must have and there is no other way to get it... Settle for it, of course. I did that for some, but it is not ideal.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Sugarfree » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:43 pm

KSS wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:26 am
Then there's this. Is Roger a "reputable brand" in MU?
A quote from Roger's design philosophy:
- Separate functions are put on separate modules, not combined.
- Big knobs, 1/4 jacks, but resist over-populated panels.
https://synthesizers.com/technical.html

His "++" high-density modules are the result of him breaking those principles and giving in to pressure from users lusting for Euro-style density. (I couldn't find the direct quote, so I'm paraphrasing his words here.)
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by KSS » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:09 pm

@sugarfree
I'm not at odds with you. I agree that MU should keep the larger sizes and spacings of its ancestors.

But that's simply no longer the only way MU is done, and as you just said, it's market pressure that's driving it.

Since that *is* the case, I don't think it's fair to single out MuadMusic for doing something most of the MU makers are also doing to some degree.

And I agree with his reasoning about the vertical spacing replacing what's lost in the horizontal. i've had to do that -turned 90degrees- in my own new format, and I can see it in older formats like Serge too.<--also turned 90 degrees, with little vertical space made up for with plenty of enough horizontal space.

Aaannd.. That level knob in the LFO++ is pure madness. With the three jacks around it -fully expected to be filled in normal use of the module, no less, it's ridiculous. I see nothing like that in the Z506. Likewise -but to e slightly lesser degree the moon output mixer puts plugs in a vertical column of jacks right next to the small knobs in a column nearby. That's also gonna be harder to use than MuadMusic's Z506.

Ideally there would be enough market to do both the compact and the traditional layouts, and If I were MuadMusic, I'd plan for that possibility with a dual board design. But the MU market's pretty tiny and there's more and more -vocal- pressure for smaller panels in MU. To ignore that as a new maker is not a wise choice.
Thorsday wrote: I also want to say that if the module is a must have and there is no other way to get it... Settle for it, of course. I did that for some, but it is not ideal.
As Thorsday's quote says and shows, the small module will still be bought. Settled for. A larger one won't be. if the buyer has a limited case or room availability. this isn't what we'd like or what we'd hoped. But it *is* current MU reality.
-------------
I dealt with it years ago by choosing formats with smaller jacks and big knobs and panel space. Like ARP, Digisound, Aries, and DIY.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Sugarfree » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:31 pm

I agree with what you say. However, the traditional MU users should be able to voice their opinions on overpopulated modules, which erode the essence of the format. A builder should know that they may be loosing sales either way. <rant>Obviously, I don't understand the reason for buying into a format famous for its large knobs, only to insist on changing it to look like something else. It's surprising that the spirit of Bob Moog modulars is more faithfully preserved by European brands.</rant>
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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by KSS » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:20 pm

:agree: :tu:

Definitely need to hear from both sides in the MU space race! Rant on, Sugarfree!

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by MuadMusic » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:35 am

KSS wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:20 pm
:agree: :tu:

Definitely need to hear from both sides in the MU space race! Rant on, Sugarfree!
I agree. Thanks all for the feedback! The market research is priceless.

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Re: Z506 Swiss Daisy DSP - ANNOUNCED

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:12 pm

re; panel/controls design problems (jacks dispersed inside of knob/switch fields) I still do not ~get it~. I mean, I understand the reasons why some 5U modules are laid out the way they are, most of which is due to retaining some sort of respect for the older designs. However, some things designers have elected to go with just blow my mind. The Q113 eight channel mixer (for example) ... Geez Roger, what the hell? When I decided to repanel what amounts to an entire Dot Com four VCO synthesizer one of the very first considerations was to move every single stinking jack to the very bottoms of each panel. Not for density's sake, but for the sake of practical use, most especially during live performance. Meh, just another case of me not adding to the thread with anything useful. Just another Sunny day in the desert southwest.
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