Viability Of Single Manufacturer 5U Systems?

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101010oxo
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Post by 101010oxo » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:19 pm

J3RK wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the Hordijk modules have internal normalization. I don't know which signals it includes though. I just remember reading this.
He offers normalization within a panel as custom option but generally doesn't recommend them...
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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:23 pm

101010oxo wrote:
J3RK wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the Hordijk modules have internal normalization. I don't know which signals it includes though. I just remember reading this.
He offers normalization within a panel as custom option but generally doesn't recommend them...
Yeah, I never normalize anything either. I've heard from a few people that they really like that, but I can just see it being problematic when something's connected that you forget about. I typically bring as much out as a patch point as possible. Takes more cables, and a little more time to patch, but it tends to be a lot more flexible. (and you can see what's happening a bit more easily)
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Post by sonicwarrior » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:34 am

J3RK wrote:I can just see it being problematic when something's connected that you forget about
Doesn't happen when it's properly labeled like on the Megaohm Delta VCF:

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or the Curetronic Stonehenge:

Image

I like it and have no problems breaking the normalizations when I don't need them. I mean it's the same as having none then. :despair:
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Post by suitandtieguy » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:06 am

I am very eager to get the EG and VCO done so there's a complete STG Soundlabs system.

I've got ideas for cases etc but no point in getting those done unless i can fill them with stuff and put a price tag on it.
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Re: Viability Of Single Manufacturer 5U Systems?

Post by fyvewytches » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:47 am

JohnLRice wrote:Mos-Lab presently offers about 20 modules including road cases and power supplies:
mos-lab moslab
Speaking of Mos-lab... :hail: :hail:

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JohnLRice

Re: Viability Of Single Manufacturer 5U Systems?

Post by JohnLRice » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:23 pm

fyvewytches wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:Mos-Lab presently offers about 20 modules including road cases and power supplies:
mos-lab moslab
Speaking of Mos-lab... :hail: :hail:

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Great picture! :love: :party: :love:

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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:23 pm

sonicwarrior wrote:
J3RK wrote:I can just see it being problematic when something's connected that you forget about
Doesn't happen when it's properly labeled like on the Megaohm Delta VCF:

Image

or the Curetronic Stonehenge:

Image

I like it and have no problems breaking the normalizations when I don't need them. I mean it's the same as having none then. :despair:
Personal taste really. Being labeled like that definitely would help. I just prefer switches or jacks myself. Whatever works for the one using it though is the best solution. :party:
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Post by Henfield » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:22 pm

suitandtieguy wrote:I am very eager to get the EG and VCO done so there's a complete STG Soundlabs system.

I've got ideas for cases etc but no point in getting those done unless i can fill them with stuff and put a price tag on it.
Dude, I am waiting for that day! :hail: :hail: :hail:
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Ambriant
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Curetronic

Post by Ambriant » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:20 am

I ordered a Curetronic Oscillator board the other day. Still no ship date, but look forward to getting it.

Looks like it has a .com power connector on board and will run on +- 15v for .com systems. Can't wait to try it out.

8_)

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Re: Viability Of Single Manufacturer 5U Systems?

Post by nidas » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:11 pm

fyvewytches wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:Mos-Lab presently offers about 20 modules including road cases and power supplies:
mos-lab moslab
Speaking of Mos-lab... :hail: :hail:

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Just fantastic!

I have a Mos-lab "Voice" with complete Mos-lab modules. 901A/B´s, EG, VCA, C3PO mixer and then I have the rest from STG, MegaOhm, SSL, Oakley, MOTM, Dotcom and also the Kobol VCO´s and 981 filter. I just need to attuenate alot when using the Mos-Lab but I always do that anyway to have more control..

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Re: Curetronic

Post by LED-man » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:01 am

Ambriant wrote:I ordered a Curetronic Oscillator board the other day. Still no ship date, but look forward to getting it.

Looks like it has a .com power connector on board and will run on +- 15v for .com systems. Can't wait to try it out.

8_)
the power connector is with a eurorack style cable
included: 1 ribbon connector cable curetronic standard

you need a adapter or make a own cable like this: (for MOTM)
but i have done the same for dotcom.
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Hanz
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Post by Hanz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:20 pm

For me, a "complete system" is not about having a large range of modules, neither does the system in question need to be very big by itself to be considered complete.
Rather, the module selection just needs to come together in a way that allows it to be 'musically useful' (whatever that means is obviously different to many people). This shouldn't necessarily imply a Minimoog (basic subtractive) configuration, although it helps if a certain 'workflow' or approach presents itself in an ergonomical / natural way if you look at the interface.
It's always a fine line between enforcing a rigid approach on one side and 'drowning' in features and options of arbitrary musical value on the other side.

I like to think that both the proposed workflow and a certain uniqueness to the resulting sound constitute what could be considered 'character' - which is probably the most important factor in a musical instrument, for me at least.

So, what should be in place for a "complete system"?
A nice (powered) case is one thing. Without that, you're just looking at a heap of metal. It's the rug that ties the room together... :hihi:

Within the case, a choice selection of modules which allow at least one "voice". Which specific set of modules makes up that selection is of lesser importance, as long as all the elements provided combine well together and offer sufficient musical shaping options (pitch, volume and timbre) for the voice.
Often, easier / better technical integration of modules (matching control ranges, consistent look and feel etc.) can serve as a strong argument for single vendor systems.

Finally, the user interface should invite interaction. The difference between an instrument and a toy is mostly in controls precision and a certain amount of predictability (taking into account a learning curve).
Personally I don't consider a traditional controller to be absolutely necessary, sometimes a self-playing patch can be just as interesting. Neither should a controller mandatory have keys or work chromatically - the interface could just as well be knobs, a sequencer or 'playable' semi-random source.
Optimally, some external interfacing (via control voltage or MIDI) would be provided as well.

Layout / workflow could be assisted by normalization, but it's very easy to confuse the user with 'unpredictable' behaviour.
My personal preference moved towards minimal normalization options - just the logical internal prepatchings in individual modules, firmly away from fixed inter-module 'voice path' connections (which I found can quite easily become distracting).

Interestingly, the name Hordijk came up a few times in this discussion.
I'm quite happy with my own Hordijk system, which came completely assembled (a one-off in its wooden case) a few years ago.
It is (to paraphrase the master himself) intended less as a modular in the sense of made up by many modules, and more as modular in the sense of "making everything modulatable".
Rob's designs are very much in line with the above ideas, and I can confidently say that even a relatively small 3-panel system (each having 3 modules, so 9 total) already offers a wealth of options but still very focussed on working together to deliver interesting results.

For me, one additional benefit of getting a complete system was "peace of mind" as it eliminated the hunt for more / better. Less drive to find that last module to fill the gap or to bring that one feature. Just working within the set of tools you have in front of you can sometimes work out quite liberating (and in sharp contrast to the typical Eurorack experience, which obviously also has its fun side).

So, to answer the question, could a single manufacturer system (even of very modest size) be considered "viable"?
Well, yes, I like to think so...

Oh well, just this picture then... ain't it cute?

Image
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101010oxo
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Post by 101010oxo » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:14 am

Hanz wrote:For me, a "complete system" is not about having a large range of modules, neither does the system in question need to be very big by itself to be considered complete.
Rather, the module selection just needs to come together in a way that allows it to be 'musically useful' (whatever that means is obviously different to many people). This shouldn't necessarily imply a Minimoog (basic subtractive) configuration, although it helps if a certain 'workflow' or approach presents itself in an ergonomical / natural way if you look at the interface.

[...]

So, to answer the question, could a single manufacturer system (even of very modest size) be considered "viable"?
Well, yes, I like to think so...

Oh well, just this picture then... ain't it cute?
It sure is!

Incidentially it is _very_ similar to the system I have just ordered from Rob - I only opted for the Twinpeak instead of the 24dB filter. So as you can imagine I very much agree with your post!

What I wanted to add: for me an added value of a compact system is it's portability and with that comes the possibility to play together with other musicians. That is a big plus imho.

Besides 5U I have recently condensed my Eurorack down to two 2x3U Doepfer cases and really, really enjoy the change that this has brought. I can concentrate on the (few) modules at hand and they are of course selected to my taste very well. Also I can pick up one or both and be on my way to a jam...

But as far as 'musically useful' goes I think Rob (Hordijk) deserves a medal - what you can do with one of his small systems is amazing! Of course it has to fit your musical style and expectations. Rob told me that he feels his systems are very much suitable for people that like the 50/60s Sci-Fi sounds, drones/ambient/noise and 'classic' electronic music (not so much dance but rather early electrionic music...).

I think I agree!
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Post by ear ear » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:09 am

101010oxo wrote:But as far as 'musically useful' goes I think Rob (Hordijk) deserves a medal - what you can do with one of his small systems is amazing! Of course it has to fit your musical style and expectations. Rob told me that he feels his systems are very much suitable for people that like the 50/60s Sci-Fi sounds, drones/ambient/noise and 'classic' electronic music (not so much dance but rather early electrionic music...).

I think I agree!
Given time, anyone should be able to get most sounds from any system, no? I'm into stuff like I-f, Subhead, Drexciya and Ultradyne. I don't see significant problems using my Hordijk system for this. I'll grant you that when I started using my system I immediately thought 'mmmmmm, drones!', but it does gritty, crunchy and growly very well. With a bit of feedback things start to get going. Based on the sound of the music I like my heart says 'get a Serge to make that sound you love', but my head says 'nah - do something new'. I think the fact that this system doesn't immediately sound the way I want makes it a good system to learn on, and it is very versatile compared to the COA/Serge panel I have (though I would need another panel of that to make a fair comparison with the Hordijk).

:guinness:
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101010oxo
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Post by 101010oxo » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:13 am

ear ear wrote:
101010oxo wrote:But as far as 'musically useful' goes I think Rob (Hordijk) deserves a medal - what you can do with one of his small systems is amazing! Of course it has to fit your musical style and expectations. Rob told me that he feels his systems are very much suitable for people that like the 50/60s Sci-Fi sounds, drones/ambient/noise and 'classic' electronic music (not so much dance but rather early electrionic music...).
Given time, anyone should be able to get most sounds from any system, no? I'm into stuff like I-f, Subhead, Drexciya and Ultradyne. I don't see significant problems using my Hordijk system for this.
That is most certainly correct! :agree:

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Post by ear ear » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:15 am

:chug: :sb:
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Post by whitewulfe » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:11 pm

krisp14u wrote:
alternating.bit wrote:
I have to say that Oakley really should be included.
you would think wouldn't you :hihi:

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Gawds those are insanely sexy, and I still want to get a nice setup from you when I have spare cash.

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