5U LFOs with potential for BPM sync?

Moog, Synthesizers.com, MOTM, Modcan, Moon and others..... Go big!

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

5U LFOs with potential for BPM sync?

Post by daveholiday » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:33 pm

I guess that I already know the answer to this question but I thought I would toss it out there to see if I have overlooked something.

As with most digital controlled synths, there is usually a way to sync LFOs to a tempo related factor...notes/measures...etc. I would love to be able to do this with my modular, but I assume this is not possible without some digital "trickery" within the LFO circuit itself. My current LFOs are 2 dotcom Q167++ and 4 Q106, but these are my main oscillators as well.

The one feature that mine don't have that others do...Corsynth, Moon...is a retrigger feature. It seems this would get me closer as I would assume a simple gate signal could be used for the retrigger...right? I that is correct, it would be easy to sync the retrigger, but I would still have to manually adjust the rate for the proper effect?

In the end, I do have a solution by way of using the DSI PRO 2 LFOs assigned to the CV outs. But is there a way withing the 5U world that I am missing?

Thanks!

User avatar
Ranxerox
All the gear, no idea
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:16 pm
Location: UK

Re: 5U LFOs with potential for BPM sync?

Post by Ranxerox » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:14 pm

daveholiday wrote:I guess that I already know the answer to this question but I thought I would toss it out there to see if I have overlooked something.

As with most digital controlled synths, there is usually a way to sync LFOs to a tempo related factor...notes/measures...etc. I would love to be able to do this with my modular, but I assume this is not possible without some digital "trickery" within the LFO circuit itself. My current LFOs are 2 dotcom Q167++ and 4 Q106, but these are my main oscillators as well.

The one feature that mine don't have that others do...Corsynth, Moon...is a retrigger feature. It seems this would get me closer as I would assume a simple gate signal could be used for the retrigger...right? I that is correct, it would be easy to sync the retrigger, but I would still have to manually adjust the rate for the proper effect?

In the end, I do have a solution by way of using the DSI PRO 2 LFOs assigned to the CV outs. But is there a way withing the 5U world that I am missing?

Thanks!
Why can't you just connect a clock pulse at the appropriate subdivision, to the sync input on the Q106? That's what I'd do.

Or you could use a Schmitt trigger - like on the Q118 input module - to derive a pulse train from an audio input, and use that...

User avatar
PrimateSynthesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3353
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Post by PrimateSynthesis » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:34 pm

"Sync:Very unique feature that synchronizes LFO Rate to an external clock or other LFO. This is a great method of keeping LFOs in sync with sequencers etc. In SYNC MODE the RATE knob is used to set the sync division from 1-10 of the input clock. Each LFO can be set to a different division value creating a very powerful rhythmic source that can used to generate a wide variety of synchronized modulation sequences and beat patterns. Also SYNC division is Voltage controllable allowing division variable to be modulated by external or other LFO channels for even more complex patterns."

http://www.modcan.com/bmodules/quadLFO.html
FS: Rare Morley Rotating Wah Oil Can Delay!

Since the forum has gone back to being 100% community funded, I've decided to donate half the proceeds from the Morley Rotating Wah this thread is supposedly selling :miley:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=131332

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Re: 5U LFOs with potential for BPM sync?

Post by daveholiday » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:44 pm

Ranxerox wrote:Why can't you just connect a clock pulse at the appropriate subdivision, to the sync input on the Q106? That's what I'd do.

Or you could use a Schmitt trigger - like on the Q118 input module - to derive a pulse train from an audio input, and use that...
I guess I really didn't think about the Hard sync in terms of running as an LFO. So the Hard sync would basically function like a retrigger on some of the dedicated LFO modules?

This is a work around of sorts, but it required me using my main OSC voices as LFOs....I may need to read up on the Q167++ to see if I can do the same thing with them!

Thanks for the tip...I will play around with them tonight.

User avatar
J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6551
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by J3RK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:47 pm

You could use a PLL as well, but a lot of factors go into that. (shape of clock pulse, options on the LFO being synced, etc.)
Are you lemon? Does your head come to a nub?

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Post by daveholiday » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:50 pm

I hadn't really considered Modcan as an option anymore. But that module seems to do what I am describing...perhaps the used market?

pulse_divider

Post by pulse_divider » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:51 pm


User avatar
Flareless
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1280
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:33 am
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by Flareless » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:56 pm

Ok.... THAT is a nice module!
Rich

Image

What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound - Neil Peart

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Post by daveholiday » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:09 pm

So the Q167++ gate input starts the envelope generator and the Sync of the oscillator. So I guess I have what I was after aside from adjusting the rate for the desired effect of the "looped" sequence.

I also assume, depending on the circumstance, that triggering a EG rhythmically with a gate signal would achieve what I am after as well.

I guess I just needed to think about this a bit more!! I get spoiled playing with the PRO 2 and all of its digital control and convenience!

I love hearing ideas from the veterans tho...keeps me experimenting!

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Post by daveholiday » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:15 pm

Yup....That seems like very nice a solution....would be nice to have some BPM driven goodness driving the spread on my Dual WASP!

User avatar
Flareless
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1280
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:33 am
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by Flareless » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:28 pm

daveholiday wrote:Yup....That seems like very nice a solution....would be nice to have some BPM driven goodness driving the spread on my Dual WASP!
Now that's a damn cool idea! :tu: 8-)
Rich

Image

What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound - Neil Peart

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:44 pm

daveholiday wrote:
I hadn't really considered Modcan as an option anymore. But that module seems to do what I am describing...perhaps the used market?
The Modcan quad LFO is one of the most popular Modcan modules ever and they are rare to appear on the used market and snapped up quickly when they do so, if you want an immediate solution don't get your hopes up. :cry: 8-)

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1567
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Post by josaka » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:47 am

oakley dual lfo has 2 sync inputs..

also the 106(+most other osc) as said earlier and they have many outputs..

also you can run a simple synced lfo into a multi.. also you can buy simple splitters(mostly what I use)

User avatar
PrimateSynthesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3353
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Post by PrimateSynthesis » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:58 pm

JohnLRice wrote: The Modcan quad LFO is one of the most popular Modcan modules ever and they are rare to appear on the used market and snapped up quickly when they do so, if you want an immediate solution don't get your hopes up. :cry: 8-)
Has anyone heard any recent news about Modcan? Last I heard, business was on hold because the owner had health issues. But that was a long time ago.
FS: Rare Morley Rotating Wah Oil Can Delay!

Since the forum has gone back to being 100% community funded, I've decided to donate half the proceeds from the Morley Rotating Wah this thread is supposedly selling :miley:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=131332

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Post by daveholiday » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:08 pm

There have been a few recent posts about Modcan, but nothing that I recall being very specific about the status...

So if I have done my research correctly, and please chime in if I have gotten this totally wrong, this is what I understand so far.

I can, for example, send a gate signal to my LFOs to reset/retrigger them. If I want to reset/retrigger 3 different LFOs at different rates I will need to have 3 separate gates sent at the appropriate "time signature".

I assume that this is where gate/clock multipliers/dividers come in handy? I could send a quarter note pulse/gate and the use a divider/multiplier to then modify multiple outs of the divider/multiplier?

If this is correct...is there a simple solution for this in 5U? I don't think I need something as complex and the dotcom gate math...just a simple module to with options to multiply or divide. The Yusynth clock divider looks like the simplest option right now...just curious what else is out there.

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1567
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Post by josaka » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:20 pm

you can always send a signal from one synced lfo to another which gives you many time division options..
introduce slew/adsr and you have all kinds of funky options..

the beauty of modular.. :) :domodance:

User avatar
kindredlost
5U skiff friendly
Posts: 5543
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:45 pm
Location: Texoma

Post by kindredlost » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:31 pm

Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2. The LFOrg (one) section on top has a reset feature. A bullet-proof sync. It is a main reason I have four of them.
I hate to say it but Phil has the "dead-nuts-on" feature here. Very forgiving for almost any reset input signal.

Image

User avatar
sduck
experimental use of gravity
Posts: 13442
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:03 pm
Location: Vortepexaion, TN, USA

Post by sduck » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:13 pm

The MOTM 320 LFO has a sync in that would work. Although it's general unavailability would probably make it a poor choice for you...
flickr cloud of sound touyube NOT A MODERATOR ANYMORE

User avatar
Tronman
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 954
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:38 am
Location: CT, The Bozo State

Post by Tronman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:43 am

kindredlost wrote:Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2.
Unfortunately, they haven't been available for a few years.
Streetly Electronics - the one and only authentic Mellotron company: http://www.mellotronics.com/

User avatar
kindredlost
5U skiff friendly
Posts: 5543
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:45 pm
Location: Texoma

Post by kindredlost » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:18 am

Tronman wrote:
kindredlost wrote:Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2.
Unfortunately, they haven't been available for a few years.
Bummer

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1567
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Post by josaka » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:46 am

kindredlost wrote:
Tronman wrote:
kindredlost wrote:Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2.
Unfortunately, they haven't been available for a few years.
Bummer
but the dual oakley LFO is and that covers most of the Maga Ohm LFO .. ! :)

http://www.krisp1.com/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=110

or you can get more crazy :)

http://www.krisp1.com/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=108

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Post by daveholiday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:17 am

I think I have basic LFO duties covered with my current modules. Not to say I won't invest in ones more suited to my needs in the future! But I am curious if I am right about my assumptions about clock dividers/multipliers a couple posts up!

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:33 am

daveholiday wrote:I think I have basic LFO duties covered with my current modules. Not to say I won't invest in ones more suited to my needs in the future! But I am curious if I am right about my assumptions about clock dividers/multipliers a couple posts up!
It "can" work but it depends on what you are trying to do. And I can't remember if you stated or not what your intended use is. :hmm: :oops:

For instance if you have a really slow sine LFO that you occasionally reset with a gate, chances are there will be a sudden jump to zero volts, +5v, -5v or what ever the particular LFO does when it gets reset and that may or may not work in a particular patch.
Last edited by JohnLRice on Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dave Peck
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3300
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm
Location: SF bay area

Post by Dave Peck » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:42 am

daveholiday wrote:I think I have basic LFO duties covered with my current modules. Not to say I won't invest in ones more suited to my needs in the future! But I am curious if I am right about my assumptions about clock dividers/multipliers a couple posts up!
Not necessarily - it depends on the LFO frequencies relative to each other and relative to the main clock.

For example, let's say your track is running at 120 BPM, which is two beats per second. And you want LFO 'a' to run at that rate, and you want lfo 'b' to run at a third that rate (half-note triplets).

You can send a clock with BPM of half the track BPM (60 BPM, one pulse per second) to both LFOs.

Set the frequency of LFO 'a' to run at twice the clock rate, so you get two cycles of the LFO before the clock re-triggers it and keeps it sync'd to the beat.

Set the frequency of LFO 'b' to run at three times the clock rate, so you get three cycles of that LFO before the clock re-triggers it and keeps it sync'd to the beat.

As long as all of the LFO rates in the track are running at some relatively simple mathematical ratio, you can set the re-triggering clock and the LFO rates to tempos (frequencies) that will do what you want and keep them all in sync.

User avatar
daveholiday
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Post by daveholiday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:44 pm

Thanks JLR...my intention with be resetting things rapidly to moderate...16th notes, 1/8th...1 measure for perhaps bassline modulations repeated every measure. So any artifacts that might come up with resets might just add to the overall rhythm!

Dave...What you described is exactly what I want to play around with. I want to be able to send a common clock but use simple multiply/divide to get different retrigger rates on each LFO. I know that I will have to manually adjust each LFO rate to suit the patch, but I can live with that!

Thanks to you both for the advice...now to try and find a simple clock divider!!

Post Reply

Return to “5U Format Modules”