Best Fixed Filter Bank?

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josaka
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Post by josaka » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:31 am

as far as I know the only one that is true to the moog is the SW one..using hand wound coils instead of modern replacements like the other ones..

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hamildad
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Post by hamildad » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:53 am

:75: :ripbanana: :75:
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Post by josaka » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:50 am

handmade bits costs these days.. :)
a module out of time..

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Post by Schlumpfhut » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:48 am

josaka wrote:handmade bits costs these days.. :)
a module out of time..
One can always go down on DIY lane to reduce costs

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Flareless
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Post by Flareless » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:04 pm

Schlumpfhut wrote:One can always go down on DIY lane to reduce costs
I think this is the #1 misconception about DIY
Rich

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Post by Sir Ruff » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:06 pm

Flareless wrote:
ba1 wrote:I could be wrong, but Rich from Lower West Side Studios could probably build you one of these. He does great work and is a pleasure to deal with.
Thank you for the kind words ba1!

And y'all might want to stay tuned on this subject :mrgreen:
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Post by megaohm » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:41 pm

Flareless wrote:
Schlumpfhut wrote:One can always go down on DIY lane to reduce costs
I think this is the #1 misconception about DIY
:yay:
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Will work for pistachios

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fac
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Post by fac » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:26 pm

I took advantage of last week's dotcom holiday sale and finally bought a Q127 FFB. Now, I know everyone complains that it's the worst FFB of the bunch, that it doesn't have enough resonance at each band, and that the output gain is low. Well, I just got the Q127 and I can say that it is all true. My first impressions after running some white noise and a plain sawtooth wave were a bit meh, although not necessarily disappointing since I knew what the opinions were.

But then I thought about feeding it back to itself, using a mixer: you know, source and FFB output into mixer, mixer output into FFB. And the whole thing just came alive, the frequency bands start whistling as soon as one turns up the feedback half-way (FFB level on the mixer) up to the point of instability and chaos. And the output gain is pretty much up there, no need to amplify it. I haven't read anything about this, although I'm sure someone must have tried it before.

I also love how the way the band frequencies are organized in the panel, where you get different harmonics or subharmonics as you move diagonally. I don't think all FFBs are organized this way.

Now I'm almost regretting I didn't get the Q140 FFB Aid as well. I decided at the end to get a second SVF (Q107A) instead.

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Post by hsosdrum » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:47 am

fac wrote:I took advantage of last week's dotcom holiday sale and finally bought a Q127 FFB. Now, I know everyone complains that it's the worst FFB of the bunch, that it doesn't have enough resonance at each band, and that the output gain is low. Well, I just got the Q127 and I can say that it is all true. My first impressions after running some white noise and a plain sawtooth wave were a bit meh, although not necessarily disappointing since I knew what the opinions were.

But then I thought about feeding it back to itself, using a mixer: you know, source and FFB output into mixer, mixer output into FFB. And the whole thing just came alive, the frequency bands start whistling as soon as one turns up the feedback half-way (FFB level on the mixer) up to the point of instability and chaos. And the output gain is pretty much up there, no need to amplify it. I haven't read anything about this, although I'm sure someone must have tried it before.

I also love how the way the band frequencies are organized in the panel, where you get different harmonics or subharmonics as you move diagonally. I don't think all FFBs are organized this way.

Now I'm almost regretting I didn't get the Q140 FFB Aid as well. I decided at the end to get a second SVF (Q107A) instead.
Very clever, fac! Since I've been one of the more vocal detractors of the Q127 I want to thank you for suggesting this. Although at the moment I don't have an unused mixer, I'll tear down one of my synth's voices and try your suggestion and report back here. Anything that makes the 127 work better gets a big thumbs-up from me. :tu:

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Post by Flareless » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:37 am

Flareless wrote:I've got the Yusynth and am very happy with it. While it doesn't have an option for a breakout board for each frequency it does have multiple inputs as well as outputs for "Odd" and "Even" frequencies as well as a main output (all available simultaneously).
Having to make this statement troubled me. There SHOULD be outputs for each frequency on a Fixed Filter Bank.

Last week Lower West Side Studio introduced the Fixed Filter Bank Pro which offers all the features of our standard Yusynth FFB plus outputs for each individual frequency including low pass and high pass.

The Fixed Filter Bank Pro also features attenuators on both input channels and is only 60mm deep.

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Post by trentpmcd » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:37 am

Flareless wrote:
Flareless wrote:I've got the Yusynth and am very happy with it. While it doesn't have an option for a breakout board for each frequency it does have multiple inputs as well as outputs for "Odd" and "Even" frequencies as well as a main output (all available simultaneously).
Having to make this statement troubled me. There SHOULD be outputs for each frequency on a Fixed Filter Bank.

Last week Lower West Side Studio introduced the Fixed Filter Bank Pro which offers all the features of our standard Yusynth FFB plus outputs for each individual frequency including low pass and high pass.

The Fixed Filter Bank Pro also features attenuators on both input channels and is only 60mm deep.

Image
I didn't say anything on the thread about this, but I do really like the idea of the built in breakout ports. I won't be able to afford one soon, but it is on my list.

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Post by Leverkusen » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:13 pm

Just wanted to hint that there is a Mos-Lab FFB for sale at the moment on this forum - not by me but I just bought another module from the seller. Also it's a good price, I think - at least when your based in europe.

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Conjure
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Re:

Post by Conjure » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:42 am

fac wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:26 pm
I took advantage of last week's dotcom holiday sale and finally bought a Q127 FFB. Now, I know everyone complains that it's the worst FFB of the bunch, that it doesn't have enough resonance at each band, and that the output gain is low. Well, I just got the Q127 and I can say that it is all true. My first impressions after running some white noise and a plain sawtooth wave were a bit meh, although not necessarily disappointing since I knew what the opinions were.

But then I thought about feeding it back to itself, using a mixer: you know, source and FFB output into mixer, mixer output into FFB. And the whole thing just came alive, the frequency bands start whistling as soon as one turns up the feedback half-way (FFB level on the mixer) up to the point of instability and chaos. And the output gain is pretty much up there, no need to amplify it. I haven't read anything about this, although I'm sure someone must have tried it before.

I also love how the way the band frequencies are organized in the panel, where you get different harmonics or subharmonics as you move diagonally. I don't think all FFBs are organized this way.

Now I'm almost regretting I didn't get the Q140 FFB Aid as well. I decided at the end to get a second SVF (Q107A) instead.
This works, and works well. You can get it "close enough" (YMMV) to a Moog-ish FFB sound, without spending $2,000 on a hand-wound inductor-based FFB. Each band starts whistling and resonating. It requires a bit of playing to the levels right with the mixer, but it works... damn well.

For some other character you can invert either the source signal or FFB out signal with the signal processor, play with the gain -100% to -150%.

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hamildad
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Re: Best Fixed Filter Bank?

Post by hamildad » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:15 am

Just got a FFB so looking for all the tips and use cases I can find.

in the patch described above, you are multing (probably via buffered mult) the output of the FB straight through to audio out as well as into the mixer to provide the feedback path yes?

anyone else got tricks to try, I am going to try and find some time later this week to have a good play.
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External PSUs and DC jacks are the hallmarks of toys. - Graham Hinton.
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I am one of the "tiny fraction of a percentage of oversensitive idiots" who feels the name of this site sends the wrong message.
-
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fac
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Re: Best Fixed Filter Bank?

Post by fac » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:27 am

hamildad wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:15 am
in the patch described above, you are multing (probably via buffered mult) the output of the FB straight through to audio out as well as into the mixer to provide the feedback path yes?
Yeah, you can tap the output either from the FFB output or from the mixer output. I don't think it matters too much which one you choose. I didn't even use a multiple, just a Y-splitter like this one:
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Re: Best Fixed Filter Bank?

Post by Schlumpfhut » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:47 am

fac wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:27 am
Yeah, you can tap the output either from the FFB output or from the mixer output. I don't think it matters too much which one you choose. I didn't even use a multiple, just a Y-splitter like this one:
I was just wondering if it is possible to modify the dotcom ffb to integrate the feedback path into the module itself :hmm:
Maybe JLR has some inside on that.....

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Re: Best Fixed Filter Bank?

Post by Ockeghem » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:33 am

JLR hasn’t been posting on muffwiggler lately :cry:
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Re: Best Fixed Filter Bank?

Post by megaohm » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:38 am

Schlumpfhut wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:47 am
fac wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:27 am
Yeah, you can tap the output either from the FFB output or from the mixer output. I don't think it matters too much which one you choose. I didn't even use a multiple, just a Y-splitter like this one:
I was just wondering if it is possible to modify the dotcom ffb to integrate the feedback path into the module itself :hmm:
Maybe JLR has some inside on that.....
Haven't seen the back other than the datasheet but I'm fairly certain you can build it in.
Add a jack for a second OUT.
Add another for the additional IN.
A mixer is all you need but a VCA would be better - VC Resonance/feedback or even just VC gain of another input.

SHAMELESS PLUG:
My VCA Rider pcb would be perfect for this because it has the VCA and mixers pre and post VCA portion. I'd use the post mixer so the original signal is unaffected by the VCA.
This would require a third jack (VCA CV IN). An attenuator for the CV would be nice, too. If you don't mind sacrificing the BYPASS switch, then widen the hole for a jack and put the CV attenuator above it.
Ohhh...symmetry.
Or just use as a plain mixer. The pcb makes the power feeds a little easier to deal with, too.
I have plenty of pcbs for any DIYers. Here's a thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... er#p917206

I would be happy to build one for somebody in the way I described or similar.
I will document how to do it and make a PDF with pics.
$100 + ship.
Hope it sounds reasonable.
It's less than a full Q109/Rider build out and more work but I really want to do it now!
PM me or send me a direct email for quickness:
phil[at]megaohmaudio.com
www.MegaOhmAudio.com

Will work for pistachios

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