5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

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5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by stikygum » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:59 pm

I've always loved the sound of 5U modular. I'm guessing it's the higher voltage used that makes it sound beefier than stuff I hear from Eurorack. I have a Eurorack setup because it's as compact as I want it to be, but I've wanted to get a small 5U system because I really love the sound of a lot of the modules from this format.

My main purpose is to find an analog Osc or synth that will be used for providing raw and deep sounding bass. I don't need to use it for anything more than that (no fx, no leads, etc.) though I know I would love to go down a rabbit hole, but that would distract me from my personal goals right now.

My main issue is space. If I could get a small enough 5U setup, I would consider it. Things like a Minimoog have this raw beefy sound that I like. Yes I could go that route too, but I would like to keep the cost of a new acquisition lower. I was trying to research things like MFOS, which sound really good especially the filter, but I'm not sure the Osc is as beefy as I would want, though maybe I haven't heard the right audio clips. I have some smaller units like a GRP A2, which is great but maybe not as raw sounding as 5U stuff. My SE Boomstar definitely has some nice weight to it, but I wanted to see if there's something similar to 5U or a cheaper 5U unit I could pursue.

Any suggestions appreciated.

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Thorsday » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:02 pm

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by josaka » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:29 am

Roland System 100 101

not many if any have the ooomph of 5u direct out of the box..
bit of drive/compression its hard to tell.. I think euroracks over modulation and digital osc does it no favours in this department also 5u is more about multi osc..

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by defutura » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:08 am

stikygum wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:59 pm
I've always loved the sound of 5U modular. I'm guessing it's the higher voltage used that makes it sound beefier than stuff I hear from Eurorack
Wouldn't that also imply that the original Moog synthesizers sound anywhere between 3V and 9V less 'beefy?' :hmm:

Assuming that 'beefiness' (apart from drift) more or less means 'distortion,' wouldn't the higher headroom with 15V rather make that more difficult to achieve?
Last edited by defutura on Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by defutura » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:16 am

[double post}

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by josaka » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:14 am

well the moog output is a lot quieter ..so there is that

same sound for cheaper..? by a lot of accounts the Behr model D is close to the real mini..and this is close to 5u..
the cat they did is pretty 'hefty' the way you can mix waves on it and the sub make it huge sounding.. only when you get into sync and heavy modulation can you find shortcomings..

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Notron fn » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:10 am

Consider adding a CP3 style mixer to rough things up a little.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by hamildad » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:42 am

AJH Synth modules and a .mix from STG would sound good.

Josaka is right though, 5U is all about stacking Oscs. So any good sounding analogue oscillators into a CP3 mixer will sound good.

for cheap and 5U modelled, you could go for the Behringer system 55 clones, or for a 'better' oscillator, the AJH minimod would be great if you bought a few.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by sduck » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 am

If you can find or build an Guinguin MME, that's the king of fat in euroland - it's basically a spot-on minimoog.

Otherwise, it's more of a matter of combining multiple VCO's and the right kind of filtering.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by johny_gtr » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:29 pm

Furthrrrr generator left part. Sine, pulse and saw sound raw. Good filter (if you use pulse or saw) like from VSL provide you a good bass. Some characterful vcas like from Verbos add some drive.

Still prefer in terms of raw sound my Mos-Lab system. Its whole system like a musical instrument if I want to create melodies, bit just textures/experiments
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by josaka » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:37 pm

hamildad wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:42 am
AJH Synth modules and a .mix from STG would sound good.

Josaka is right though, 5U is all about stacking Oscs. So any good sounding analogue oscillators into a CP3 mixer will sound good.

for cheap and 5U modelled, you could go for the Behringer system 55 clones, or for a 'better' oscillator, the AJH minimod would be great if you bought a few.
all the B55 videos make it sound quite surprisingly weedy.. may just be the poor quality videos but the 1 side by side ish vid.. its pretty far off... one might say.. Dry.


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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Dave Peck » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:47 pm

stikygum wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:59 pm
I've always loved the sound of 5U modular. I'm guessing it's the higher voltage used that makes it sound beefier than stuff I hear from Eurorack. I have a Eurorack setup because it's as compact as I want it to be, but I've wanted to get a small 5U system because I really love the sound of a lot of the modules from this format.

My main purpose is to find an analog Osc or synth that will be used for providing raw and deep sounding bass. I don't need to use it for anything more than that (no fx, no leads, etc.) though I know I would love to go down a rabbit hole, but that would distract me from my personal goals right now.
(snip)
There are differences between the waveshapes of various analog oscs and not all saw waves are the same. This can have a noticeable impact on the sound.
Some have a diagonal ramp that is a perfect straight line.
Some have a curve near the top (which emphasizes some lower harmonics and can sound 'bigger').
Some have a curve at the top and bottom, making the ramp slight "S" shaped (emphasizing some odd harmonics, which can sound 'bigger' but more 'hollow')
Some are sharply clipped off at the top or bottom or both, which makes the saw start to sound a bit more like a square or wide pulse.
Some have a tiny transient spike at the top, which can help 'excite' resonant filters, but can also result in a build up of high frequency 'hash' in the 10kHz to 20kHz range when you have multiple detuned oscs and wide-open filters.

And that's just the saw waves. there are also differences in the square/pulse waves, the triangle waves, and the sine waves.

Then there are differences in the BEHAVIOR of the oscs, like do they maintain a consistent tuning (or consistent intentional amount of detuning) or does the tunings slightly drift, which can sometimes make multiple detuned oscs sound a bit more 'lively'.

And there are factors outside of the oscs that can also make the oscs sound 'bigger', like adding a bit of overdrive to the mix of detuned oscs before sending them to the filter (like a Moog CP3 style mixer, a la STG mixer). And of course you can use tricks like adding a slight amount of filter feedback which can add a lot of 'oomph'.

You can mix in a hard-sync'd sine wave along with the saw wave to emphasize the fundamental, which can really make a bass patch sound huge (if your osc has simultaneous outs, just use the sine out in addition to the saw out). Hint: if your patch has two or three detuned saw oscs, just add in ONE sine.

The point is that none of this is related to 5U versus Euro. It has nothing to do with panel size or voltage rails.

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by josaka » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:02 pm

think you can get most osc to sound good.. I mean if we are adding effects drive distortion into the equasion..
for me personally there is a reason I keep going back to the Synthwerk osc..
they always deliver(filters a big part !) ..some osc take longer to get a great sound
for many of them its worth that 'search' ...DDVCOs are a good example! or the hordijk osc..
the kobols are demonic in the right spot! same with the krisp TZ and the corsynths..

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Ockeghem » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:39 am

josaka wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:02 pm
think you can get most osc to sound good.. I mean if we are adding effects drive distortion into the equasion..
for me personally there is a reason I keep going back to the Synthwerk osc..
they always deliver(filters a big part !) ..some osc take longer to get a great sound
for many of them its worth that 'search' ...DDVCOs are a good example! or the hordijk osc..
the kobols are demonic in the right spot! same with the krisp TZ and the corsynths..
I missed out on Kobol and Hordijk, but the demos are convincing enough. Have to agree about the rest.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by hamildad » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 am

josaka wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:37 pm
hamildad wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:42 am
AJH Synth modules and a .mix from STG would sound good.

Josaka is right though, 5U is all about stacking Oscs. So any good sounding analogue oscillators into a CP3 mixer will sound good.

for cheap and 5U modelled, you could go for the Behringer system 55 clones, or for a 'better' oscillator, the AJH minimod would be great if you bought a few.
all the B55 videos make it sound quite surprisingly weedy.. may just be the poor quality videos but the 1 side by side ish vid.. its pretty far off... one might say.. Dry.
I said the behringer was 5U modelled, never said anything about the sound :hihi:

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by synthcube » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:43 am

sduck wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 am
If you can find or build an Guinguin MME, that's the king of fat in euroland - it's basically a spot-on minimoog.

Otherwise, it's more of a matter of combining multiple VCO's and the right kind of filtering.
We offer the guinguin mme kit here in the shop and we have one set up for demons-- its amazing.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Pyrrhix » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:55 am

Notron fn wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:10 am
Consider adding a CP3 style mixer to rough things up a little.
Definitely take note of this. I ran a couple Pittsburgh oscillators through a Manhattan Mix and then through a Manhattan CP3. The difference was surprising. The CP3 added this glue and saturation that gave the oscillators a nice vintage heaviness.

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:31 am

If you want a Moog sound, the AJH Minimod is a faithful clone of the Minimoog Model D VCO. It's not a Moog modular-inspired VCO, though; I dunno how important that is to you. Aion do their 921 VCO, which I've heard sounds good. (I think it was a collaboration with COTK.) For the Kobol sound, you could take a look at the LA 67 WFM VCO.

Getting away from those classic clones, though, one of the most revered oscs in 5U is the Synth Tech/MOTM 300. That's now available in Euro with expanded features, including sub-osc out which is relatively rare in 5U although I don't know why.

Honestly, though, if you want a great sounding, versatile sawcore osc in Euro, go for the WMD/SSF Spectrum - very well specced, not crazily expensive, and sounds great. There was a thread comparing this with the AJH one and a guy who had both said you couldn't really tell the difference between their raw tones, and the Spectrum is better featured.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by josaka » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:46 am

the behringers are supposed to be 'clones" for a fraction of the cost.. had a listen to the LA 67 osc.. does the same tricks as kobol.. sounds way more buzzy than my mos labs or the original kobol.. if that matters.. its not bad.. just different..


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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by KSS » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:56 am

Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:31 am
one of the most revered oscs in 5U is the Synth Tech/MOTM 300. That's now available in Euro with expanded features,
Didn't know this. Link?
including sub-osc out which is relatively rare in 5U although I don't know why.
Often things in 5U get left out due to lack of room for jacks. And the desire to not go wider to gain room for them.

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Flareless » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:36 am

Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:31 am
.... including sub-osc out which is relatively rare in 5U although I don't know why.
Not rare at all. Check out the CGS01 Sub-Oscillator / Harmonic Sequencer from Lower West Side Studio

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by DrReverendSeance » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:47 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:56 am
Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:31 am
one of the most revered oscs in 5U is the Synth Tech/MOTM 300. That's now available in Euro with expanded features,
Didn't know this. Link?
https://synthtech.com/eurorack/E300/

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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:57 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:56 am
including sub-osc out which is relatively rare in 5U although I don't know why.
Often things in 5U get left out due to lack of room for jacks. And the desire to not go wider to gain room for them.
[/quote]

Except with a sub out you wouldn't need a second osc or other module to give you that sub, in sync as well. It REDUCES space.
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:58 am

Flareless wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:36 am
Prunesquallor wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:31 am
.... including sub-osc out which is relatively rare in 5U although I don't know why.
Not rare at all. Check out the CGS01 Sub-Oscillator / Harmonic Sequencer from Lower West Side Studio
Deftly done, sir! :yay:
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Re: 5U sounding Oscillator, not in 5U format?

Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:01 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:56 am
Often things in 5U get left out due to lack of room for jacks. And the desire to not go wider to gain room for them.
Except with a sub out you wouldn't need a second osc or other module to give you that sub, in sync as well. It REDUCES space.
If at first you don't succeed read the instruction manual.

RIP Ziggy, the companion in my avatar.

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