Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Moog, Synthesizers.com, MOTM, Modcan, Moon and others..... Go big!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe., lisa

Post Reply
User avatar
daveholiday
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by daveholiday » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:15 am

Hey all, I thought this might be a more general modular question, but perhaps more suited here as there aren't quite as many various VCO modules in 5u.

My favorite Mr. Garrison quote from South Park..."There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"

Most, not all, of my oscillators "free run", no input, all tuning knobs at default 12 o'clock at "C" I assumed this was a "standard" as all three of my MIDI to CV controllers default at 0v,1v,2v,3v...etc on the "C" key

The reason why I ask is a have a couple oscillators that, with no input and default settings, are in "E".

It was a problem during calibration because I was expecting C at 0v and 1v.....

Is the 0v and 1v/oct based on C? I understand that this is all correctable with the fine tune knob, but I did want to get some clarification if there was a "standard" that most people follow.
It is all shits and giggles,

until somebody giggles and shits.

User avatar
Flareless
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1514
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:33 am
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by Flareless » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:43 am

I don't know if there is a fixed Standard but I tune all my oscillators to C when I zero my modular.

For oscillators without quick Range Switching I will often tune to C in different octaves. Just to switch things up a bit.
Rich

Image

What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound - Neil Peart

User avatar
daveholiday
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by daveholiday » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:24 am

Perhaps I should bust out the Minimoog.....as that would be the 5u standard right? Alas, it has only been out of the box once......a crime I know....
It is all shits and giggles,

until somebody giggles and shits.

User avatar
Ockeghem
missa propecia
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: USA VA

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by Ockeghem » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:30 am

The minimoog has a handy A440 tuning reference...
But, at the risk of seeming stupid, which oscillator or oscillators in 5U/MU are giving you the “E?”
Do they have red panels? :hihi:
My mouth laughs, but my heart weeps...
_______________________________
synthnut wrote: This is certainly a renaissance with bells and whistles on in the modular world. More MU is good for you, that's my motto...
TTFN,
Ben

User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by KSS » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:42 am

daveholiday wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:15 am
Is the 0v and 1v/oct based on C?
No. But see the next part of the reply.
but I did want to get some clarification if there was a "standard" that most people follow.
It likely has to do with the early KBD circuits where 0V was one end of the resistor chain. Since integer ocatave keybeds start with C, 0v = C was the easiest path. And since manufactured synths outsold DIY, it became a 'standard' as time went on.

Then you've got the minimoog entering with a 44note keybed. 0v is still the bottom of the resistor chain, but the bottom key isn't C anymore.

User avatar
daveholiday
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by daveholiday » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:36 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:42 am
daveholiday wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:15 am
Is the 0v and 1v/oct based on C?
No. But see the next part of the reply.
but I did want to get some clarification if there was a "standard" that most people follow.
It likely has to do with the early KBD circuits where 0V was one end of the resistor chain. Since integer ocatave keybeds start with C, 0v = C was the easiest path. And since manufactured synths outsold DIY, it became a 'standard' as time went on.

Then you've got the minimoog entering with a 44note keybed. 0v is still the bottom of the resistor chain, but the bottom key isn't C anymore.
So to put it very loosely 0v=C is the "standard" that most gear CV gear is following these days?
It is all shits and giggles,

until somebody giggles and shits.

User avatar
daveholiday
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by daveholiday » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:36 am

Ockeghem wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:30 am
The minimoog has a handy A440 tuning reference...
But, at the risk of seeming stupid, which oscillator or oscillators in 5U/MU are giving you the “E?”
Do they have red panels? :hihi:
PM sent
It is all shits and giggles,

until somebody giggles and shits.

User avatar
daveholiday
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Augusta, GA

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by daveholiday » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:54 am

Ockeghem wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:30 am
The minimoog has a handy A440 tuning reference...
But, at the risk of seeming stupid, which oscillator or oscillators in 5U/MU are giving you the “E?”
Do they have red panels? :hihi:
Who the Hell has Red panels in 5U? they should be dragged into the street and shot!!!!! Black and white is just fine for the old pony-tail wearing fuddy-duddys of the MU world....that is the TV we grew up with.

Gotta run.....there are some damn kids on my lawn that I have to go yell at!
It is all shits and giggles,

until somebody giggles and shits.

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by josaka » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:27 pm

I tune mine to C as well .. but isnt the standard A... ?

User avatar
Thalassa
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:27 am
Location: Spain

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by Thalassa » Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:44 am

Normally VCOs with rotary octave switches like the q106 and with no cv applied and fine tune in neutral position , they are tuned to C. In VCOs without octave ranges like my C104 or the ones in the odyssey or the ARP 2600 they are calibrated to a base frequency when the frequency knob is at minimum. In the c104 and the arp odyssey they are tuned to 20hz in the arp 2600 to 10 hz.

In general when you calibrate the VCOs the first thing you do is the 1v/oct calibration. After that you define a base frequency without cv applied. In a VCO with rotary switches, normally you set the switch to the lower setting , (for example 32) and you tune the VCO to a base note , that is normally C, but you can set your VCO to any base note you want.

User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by KSS » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:37 am

re: Thalassa just above
Contrary to this advice, I would suggest you *not* use the lowest note range of the switch. Better to use something in the low mid-range. Many times that lowest range isn't even labeled in 'footage' -and is labeled L.F. or similarly non-specific- because it's not expected to be as perfectly in tune as the higher ranges.

Fitting the ideal exponential curve to the analog reality often or usually means choosing which two points on that expo you'll use for calibration to get the best results for your use. For different VCOs the choice can be different. We fit the curve with two points and *then* check our results with the additional points arrived at by rotating the range switch. Sometimes you can get better results by using a different two points than the mfr. calibration calls out.

Ultimately it's this curve-fitting that matters more than what 0volts means. At least in the fully analog realm.

User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4597
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by KSS » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:47 am

josaka wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:27 pm
I tune mine to C as well .. but isnt the standard A... ?
Different ways of looking at the same thing. A 261.nn "C" equates to a 440.0 Hz "A".

If you think about it, the choice of 1st violin -concertmaster's "A" for concert pitch is a little like the reply I just posted. Because an orchestra or string quintet chamber group is nothing if not analog!

By choosing to let the 1st Violinist 'set' the pitch, the overall 'voice' is also somewhat defined. Using a different instrument as the 'setting' point would introduce a different 'match' to the expected results.

User avatar
hamildad
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:46 am
Location: London

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by hamildad » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:55 pm

Chris at Learning modular did a good post about VCOs that all have a different pitch at 0V.

I think My Moon 501s are neither C nor A, as I use a 440Hz reference (Q123) and have to tweak up a little to hit it.
My Synth Instagram here * My Synth videos here
-
External PSUs and DC jacks are the hallmarks of toys. - Graham Hinton.
-
I am one of the "tiny fraction of a percentage of oversensitive idiots" who feels the name of this site sends the wrong message.
-
This is primarily for melody and historical educational purposes - Analogue Music

User avatar
Faustgeist
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:48 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by Faustgeist » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:21 am

[/quote]
Who the Hell has Red panels in 5U? they should be dragged into the street and shot!!!!! Black and white is just fine for the old pony-tail wearing fuddy-duddys of the MU world....that is the TV we grew up with.
[/quote]

The only red panels I've seen in MU are tube based Metasonics/Zerosum. And those panels might have been custom anyway.
Seeking the esoteric and funky in 5U/COTK/MOTM and MODCAN B, send me a message if you are selling gear and thanks!

User avatar
Ockeghem
missa propecia
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: USA VA

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by Ockeghem » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:18 am

Actually it’s the infamous Buchla LSD-laced red panel I must have been thinking of... :miley:
My mouth laughs, but my heart weeps...
_______________________________
synthnut wrote: This is certainly a renaissance with bells and whistles on in the modular world. More MU is good for you, that's my motto...
TTFN,
Ben

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Re: Tunning of "free running" (0.000v) ocillators

Post by josaka » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:56 pm

one bad thing about 440 is ... its only 440!.. no octaves.. + -

Post Reply

Return to “5U Format Modules”