Marienberg modular system

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Post by SDC » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:26 am

Do you have some demos of the midi-cv interface on polyphonic function?

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SynMag
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Post by SynMag » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:45 pm

SDC wrote:Do you have some demos of the midi-cv interface on polyphonic function?
Yes: Here they are:




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Post by SDC » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:36 pm

SynMag wrote:
SDC wrote:Do you have some demos of the midi-cv interface on polyphonic function?
Yes: Here they are:



Wow, i need it!

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SynMag
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Post by SynMag » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:19 pm

SDC wrote:
SynMag wrote:
SDC wrote:Do you have some demos of the midi-cv interface on polyphonic function?
Yes: Here they are:



Wow, i need it!
Ok, if you are interested: It is deliverable. :-)

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Post by lucid » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:46 pm

analogsteve wrote:I spoke to one of the Marienberg brothers (probably about a year ago) and was told that while their modules *are* 5U tall, they are actually slightly narrower than the standard Moog module. Maybe this has changed, (or maybe I'm remembering wrong, it was a while ago) but I think these guys are doing their own thing... Can anyone clear this up for me?
Hi analogsteve, unfortunately you are right. Today I got S&H and VCO module from Marienberg and single width for them means 50.8mm (2 inch) and dual width is 101.6mm (4 inch). :bang:
MU? :despair:
Hope they will make re-evaluation of their strategy ...

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Post by Dave Peck » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:03 pm

.... So these are neither Dotcom-style MU nor are they MOTM-style 5U. That is unfortunate.

As my old engineering boss was fond of saying - "Standards are a wonderful thing. You can never have too many different standards".


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lucid
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Post by lucid » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:15 pm

Anyhow I must admit, that their VCO with TOP octave creates together with two dotcom VCO killer trio.
HELL that is massive beast :wookie:
I can really forgive them non "standard" width when playing together with their oscillator.

Here is what Andreas wrote me as response to my question about future thought of unifying it with dotcom style width:
Hi Milan,

the height of the modules is exact 5 HU but the width is exact of Moog-norm.

As we start with this system a few years ago, we orientate on Moog-Systems because the synthesizers.com were at this time not so “famous”.

In future we will think about both norms, but that needs some time because we have to change the construction of the front panels and to produce a complete new series.

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acealive
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Post by acealive » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:00 am

Marienberg seems to have VC ADSR, which is something I may want to have.

Does anybody know if there are other 5U VC ADSR available, from other manufatcurer's ?

(not needing the VC Out , just the VC in that the Marienberg has).

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Post by fyvewytches » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:16 am

acealive wrote:Does anybody know if there are other 5U VC ADSR available, from other manufatcurer's ?
You mean like this one from Krisp1 ?

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Post by lucid » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:01 am

I am using Moon 511c
Looking for Oakley as next VC ADSR

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Post by owen » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:42 am


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acealive
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Post by acealive » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:55 pm

awesome, guys, thanks a lot.

The Moon one looks very interesting, also it's significantly cheaper than the Marienberg VC ADSR.

But also the one from Krisp1 looks intersting, because it has a VCA included.
Don't know yet what exactly the functionality of that VCA is, but I will do some reading and thinking ;)

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Post by sonicwarrior » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:08 am

bwhittington wrote:The power header is that big of a deal, but they apparently also use 3.3v for some modules. That could be a bit of a trick. Looks like the EG might just use 15v
When there are modules that really need + 3.3 V and + 5 V it seems they couldn't even establish a standard in their own system as the EG has a header with only 3 wires.

I wonder why they choose this. MOTM is certainly better (bigger wires, two ground wires) for the high end stuff they are talking about and Dotcom is THE standard as has already been noted.
It's amazing that only the Eurorack guys seem to generally be able to use existing standards. Is that an ego thing? :bang:
The Eurorack guys even realized that almost no one uses + 5 V lines as they are often not supplied by the standard PSUs and generate them inside the module or provide both options.

Adapters suck and work only for standard power anyway. So where do you get the + 3.3 V from in a Dotcom system?
On the other side it's not that hard to make + 3.3 V in the module itself from the + 5 V line.
Like in Eurorack many MU people also seem to miss a + 5 V power line. At least that was what Doug Slocum aka SSL experienced with the Double Deka and like the Eurorack guys he learned his lesson.
bwhittington wrote:Is there any contact information for them in it?
On http://marienbergdevices.de/kontakt/ there is a contact form and this:
Entwurf, Planung & Bestellung: steffen@marienbergdevices.de
Bestellung = Ordering
lucid wrote:Today I got S&H and VCO module from Marienberg and single width for them means 50.8mm (2 inch) and dual width is 101.6mm (4 inch). :bang:
MU? :despair:
That sucks, too, and will work only with wooden strips, e.g. it won't work with the 19" rack frames.
AFAIK the Dotcom frontpanel norm is exactly the same as Moog's and that's also what the Dotcom site says:
http://www.synthesizers.com/formfactors.html
So I wonder why they are arguing with Moog compatibility.

If they make their own thing I wonder why they made the frontpanels 5U anyway as that provide false hopes of at least using the existing frontpanel width standards.

Btw.: Curetronic started as a 6U system and look where they are now (MU). But they also choose a non standard power connector similar to the COTK and Eurorack ones but with less pins. Making adapter cables to Dotcom/MOTM for these sucks big ways.

I mean I love 5U but this missing/lower ability to use the standards really makes me angry and was a big reason that drove me into Eurorack. And now even new manufacturers are not able to use them.
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Post by kons » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:19 am

Agreed, it is peculiar that MU/5U seems less able to follow standards than the supposed 'wild west' free for all of Eurorack. I think that the market pressures and competition in Eurorack has actually developed a set of logical standard specifications that most now follow. Only the old established manufacturers still seem to cling on to their eccentricities (Analogue Systems). All the newer makers simply follow the rules because they can see and accept that those rules are what the majority of consumers prefer.

My personal 'standard' wishes or what I look for and am pleased to see in a module?

+15v, -15v only, all other needed voltages generated on the module.

the 'dotcom' power connector.

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Post by paults » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:51 am

MOTM and .com power connectors only cost 11 cents each. Why not just put BOTH on there?

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Post by Ranxerox » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:08 am

sonicwarrior wrote: I mean I love 5U but this missing/lower ability to use the standards really makes me angry and was a big reason that drove me into Eurorack. And now even new manufacturers are not able to use them.
To be fair to them, Marienberg are not exactly new - they have been working on their modular offering for quite a few years. I seem to recall that when I first heard about them, MU wasn't a standard - at that time the only 5U vendors were MOTM, synthesizers.com, Mos-Lab and COTK, and each of them was ploughing their own furrow, so to speak.

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Post by megaohm » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:00 pm

køns wrote:Agreed, it is peculiar that MU/5U seems less able to follow standards than the supposed 'wild west' free for all of Eurorack.
I disagree. Rather, it depends on what standards you are looking at. As far as I know, euro doesn't have any standards with regard to CV in/out levels, gate/trigger levels, and even audio voltage levels.
MU makers seems to be on the same page:
EG = 0-5V
Trig/Gate = 0-5V
audio/bipolar = -5V/+5V

How many makers in MU use non-DotCom power headers and/or odd PSU voltages?

+15v, -15v only, all other needed voltages generated on the module.
Generating the 5V required for some modules on the pcb itself can be wasteful. With more micro, arduino, etc modules coming out it will be even more wasteful. These chips typically draw a lot more current (so do LEDs) and you will be loading up the +15V quickly.
A triple output PSU usually has much more current available for the 5V line so it won't be a problem.
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Post by Psychlist1972 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:50 pm

I tried to check out the youtube videos referenced earlier in this thread, but got the message that they had closed their account. Are these videos posted under a different account somewhere?
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Post by kons » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:30 pm

I disagree. Rather, it depends on what standards you are looking at. As far as I know, euro doesn't have any standards with regard to CV in/out levels, gate/trigger levels, and even audio voltage levels.
MU makers seems to be on the same page:
EG = 0-5V
Trig/Gate = 0-5V
audio/bipolar = -5V/+5V

How many makers in MU use non-DotCom power headers and/or odd PSU voltages?
:hail:
True True... not so many... MOS-LAB... but I believe he is switching to 15v now...
And I take your point about the Euro levels... I guess I just have gotten used to patching in an attenuator... between manufacturers...

Generating the 5V required for some modules on the pcb itself can be wasteful. With more micro, arduino, etc modules coming out it will be even more wasteful. These chips typically draw a lot more current (so do LEDs) and you will be loading up the +15V quickly.
A triple output PSU usually has much more current available for the 5V line so it won't be a problem.
This is all true but on the other hand there is a lot more to choose from in terms of PSUs if one only needs dual outputs. In fact a lot of these PSUs are overengineered for our needs in the 5v department, supplying 4 or more amps. So I guess if 'power one' produced a PSU with only one amp on the 5v and more devoted to the -+15v that would also be a solution.

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Post by sonicwarrior » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:02 am

megaohm wrote:A triple output PSU usually has much more current available for the 5V line so it won't be a problem.
AFAIK triple PSUs with a 5V need some draw on it to work properly and there are not many modules who use the +5V line.
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Post by sonicwarrior » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 am

megaohm wrote: I disagree. Rather, it depends on what standards you are looking at. As far as I know, euro doesn't have any standards with regard to CV in/out levels, gate/trigger levels, and even audio voltage levels.
MU makers seems to be on the same page:
EG = 0-5V
Trig/Gate = 0-5V
audio/bipolar = -5V/+5V
The Eurorack standard has been defined by Doepfer and their standards are:
Audio Signals are produced by the sound source Modules (such as VCO or NOISE), and lie in the range from -5 V to +5 V (10 VSS).
...
Control voltages, as produced by modulation sources like the LFO and ADSR, are from -2.5 V to +2.5 V (5 VSS) for the LFO, and from 0 V to +8 V for the ADSR.
Trigger or Gate Signals, which start a process or function, are typically from 0 V to 5 V, with the trigger occurring as the leading edge of the waveform shoots up from 0 V to 5 V
Source: http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100t_e.htm

Of course there might be manufacturers that don't use these standards. Apart from the EG/LFO levels this is exactly the same as the MU standards you posted.
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Post by e-grad » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:51 am

I doubt that Doepfer comes up to his own standard:
e-grad wrote:Tim posted a list of voltage ranges of A100 CV sources a while ago
A110 sine, pulse +/- 5.5V(there's no coupling capacitor, so stays
this no matter what pulse width set to), tri +/- 7V, saw +/-5V
A111 pulse +/- 4.5V (output is AC coupled, so this shifts to make DC
level zero, depending on pulse width), saw, tri +/- 3V, sine +/- 4.5V
A117 digital noise 0 – 12V, oscillator outputs (very) approx +/- 5V
A119 gate out 0 – 9V
A129/3 CV out (nothing in) 0 – 5.5V (daisy-chaining two sections can
add the same to this, to get up to 11V out)
A140 envelope 0 – 7V
A141 envelope 0 – 6V
A145 saw, sine, square +/- 4.5V, triangle +/- 5V
A146 bipolar pulse +/- 4.5V, unipolar pulse 0 – 8V, variable tri +/-
4V
A147 tri +/- 6V, sine +/- 5.5V, square +/- 5V, saw (unipolar) 0 – 7V
A156 trigger out 0 – 5V
A160/161 clock outputs 0 – 12V
A163 divided output +/- 2.5V; (DC output if capacitor shorted 0 – 5V)
A174: X/Y offset set to 0, full range of joystick gives approx -4V
to +4V; joystick central, turning X or Y offset gives approx the
same, -4V to 4V (hence you can get 0 – 8V out etc.)
A179 gate 0 – 9V, CV out swings through 12V, so -12V – 0 to 0 – 12V
possible depending on offset setting
A190 gate 0 – 9V
A100 Yahoo Group mssge # 2328
viewtopic.php?t=6774&highlight=tim

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Post by sonicwarrior » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:10 pm

e-grad wrote:I doubt that Doepfer comes up to his own standard
Hmm, sad.
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Post by megaohm » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:33 pm

sonicwarrior wrote:
megaohm wrote: I disagree. Rather, it depends on what standards you are looking at. As far as I know, euro doesn't have any standards with regard to CV in/out levels, gate/trigger levels, and even audio voltage levels.
MU makers seems to be on the same page:
EG = 0-5V
Trig/Gate = 0-5V
audio/bipolar = -5V/+5V
The Eurorack standard has been defined by Doepfer and their standards are:
Audio Signals are produced by the sound source Modules (such as VCO or NOISE), and lie in the range from -5 V to +5 V (10 VSS).
...
Control voltages, as produced by modulation sources like the LFO and ADSR, are from -2.5 V to +2.5 V (5 VSS) for the LFO, and from 0 V to +8 V for the ADSR.
Trigger or Gate Signals, which start a process or function, are typically from 0 V to 5 V, with the trigger occurring as the leading edge of the waveform shoots up from 0 V to 5 V
Source: http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100t_e.htm

Of course there might be manufacturers that don't use these standards. Apart from the EG/LFO levels this is exactly the same as the MU standards you posted.
Even if Doepfer followed their own standards, it is still different than MU format.
Doepfer 0-8V EG instead of 0-5V.
LFO +/-2.5V instead of +/-5V.
It makes a big difference.
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