Moon 565 Quantizer V3

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zapp550
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Moon 565 Quantizer V3

Post by zapp550 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:06 pm

Picked up a Moon 565V3 Quad Quantizer a couple months and have slowly been adding the extras (my program just arrived today :hyper:). Overall i've been pretty happy with it, the ability to punch in notes on the fly is great and the universal programmer seems to set it apart from anything else that's been offered. The only complaint I have about the module is it seems to trigger sporadically in bursts or get caught between notes; if I adjust the knobs on the sequencer a bit it usually takes care of it but not always. So i'm wondering if this is just the nature of the quantizer or maybe mine has a problem. If it is indeed the nature of the quantizer I can deal with it, but i'm wondering if there's a work around for avoiding that issue.
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JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Hi zapp550,

Which sequencer are you using it with? Just curious, I don't have a Moon 565.

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Post by zapp550 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:42 pm

Using it with a Q960, STG time suite, and Q119; it does it with each of them with about the same frequency.
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Post by bwhittington » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:55 pm

I'm going to guess that you are using the quantizer without patching a gate to its input. If so, some irregular response like this is typical and can have pleasing musical applications, if you like that sort of thing. My set is quite stable patched with a gate input.

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by zapp550 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:23 pm

I only had a brief amount of time to patch it up, mainly to check out the universal programmer which is like a sequencer in it's own right. I'll agree that the irregular response/trills can be pleasing depending on how frequently they show up, but for me it's a bit much for what i'm doing right now.
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Post by bwhittington » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:07 pm

In case it got lost in my post, the solution should be patching the gate in with a clock source from your sequencer. The glitchy stutters come from the quantizer trying to figure out when to trigger, and it has issues (as do other quantizers) close to note voltage thresholds, perhaps with some fast changes, when you change settings on the programmer while a sequence is in progress, etc. If you send it a gate, you are telling it when to quantize, thus solving the issue.

Tinkering with what gate to use (or not) with the quantizer, and whether to trigger an EG with the quantizer's gate output or the sequencer's, or whatever else can lead to some very useful variations on your sequence, depending on what you are after. I've used a sequential switch to change the gate source, resulting in a sequence that played a note on every clock on one pass and then only triggering a note when the quantizer received a new note on the next pass, for example. Stuff like that.

I agree that the programmer is a wonderful sequencing tool. It makes the 565 incredibly powerful and unlike any other quantizer.

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by zapp550 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:14 am

Spent the day playing with the modular and tried to figure out what I was doing wrong. The Q960 and Q119 I was able to work with and using the gate in pretty much solved the problem. The time suite on the other hand was weird, or rather I should say the quantizer was not fond of the trigger mini store... it was extra sporadic and not in a good way. Decided to run the trigger mini store through signal processor hoping I could dial something in that would give me signal the moon was looking for; nothing. In the process of un-patching it started working, the output of the top signal processor with just tiny bit of gain was enough to get it functioning properly... and I feel like there's something very obvious i'm missing :hmm:
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Post by Minimoog56 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:16 pm

Very buggy - so is mine - even the 569 sequencer is buggy with the 554 divider feeding it gates directly.
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Post by NV » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:29 pm

I was really excited about the new 565 Quantizer iterations and the programmers in particular, but I've had multiple problems with past Moon modules and was a bit hesitant. Are there any other recent 565 users who are also experiencing these issues with the v3 565, or issues with the programmers interfacing with them?

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Post by steffengrondahl » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:02 pm

I has similar problems with the M565 V3 + M565 D combination. And i did use the gate inputs (took them directly from the M569). However I noticed that the error (to me something like a double triggering) became more rare after some warming up time and it only seems to happen a the last (8th) step. I'll have to dig into this and assume I can find some time for it this weekend.

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Post by NV » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:07 am

steffengrondahl wrote:I has similar problems with the M565 V3 + M565 D combination. And i did use the gate inputs (took them directly from the M569). However I noticed that the error (to me something like a double triggering) became more rare after some warming up time and it only seems to happen a the last (8th) step. I'll have to dig into this and assume I can find some time for it this weekend.
Would you be willing to elaborate upon this some more? What sort of symptoms do you experience with the issue?

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Post by zapp550 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:05 pm

I'll just throw in my two cents and say that after addressing the issues mentioned above (making sure I was running the gates through the quantizer) it did remedy it for the Q119 and Q960. The STG trigger ministore it wasn't fond of, so long as it had a signal plug into the gate in though it operated without incident. Also the programmer needs to have each slot pogrammed prior to running in order to work though. I initially didn't and it froze on me a couple times if I tried to program it in the middle of running or reset it to bank A1. I performed yesterday and it worked flawlessly though, even with a few of the quirks it's really handy quantizer setup.
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Post by steffengrondahl » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:50 am

NV wrote:Would you be willing to elaborate upon this some more? What sort of symptoms do you experience with the issue?
I investigated Running the M565 V3 + M565 D combo with my Moon M569 sequencer. And to my surprice found that using the gate inputs on my M565 V3 seems to make a lot of troubles:

* If two adjacent steps produced the same voltage, I only got a gate from the first of them (i.e. from the M565 V3, I got both gates from the M569).

* It often forgot to make a gate out, thus muting a step. This occured more frequently the more steps I had muted (sat gate to off) and in the extreme case with just one unmuted of the 8 steps, it forgot to create the gate more than 4 out of 5 times, but it was very random and sometimes much worse.

I will have to investigate this further. I only used row two on my M569 for this test, and the M569 ran in 4x8 mode. Next time I will check the other rows and shift the M569 with an external source (a perfect square from my LFO).

BTW: I haven't been able to reproduce the double triggering on step 8, that I saw the other day. I heard it only once today, but this was when the M565 was still feeded with gates!

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Post by steffengrondahl » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:21 am

Dooh ... please forget my posts above - I was using the gate out from the M565 V3, and these only gets fired when the voltage change :doh:

So everything seems to work fine. I'm using the gate inputs on the M565 V3 but not the outputs.

Sorry for the inconvenience :oops:

BTW: I just tested the M565 D changing the active notes and transposing on the run, and this works perfect :party:

As a matter of fact I don't need me dotcom keyboard for transposing so I shelved the keyboard.

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Post by xclark » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:00 am

NV wrote:I was really excited about the new 565 Quantizer iterations and the programmers in particular, but I've had multiple problems with past Moon modules and was a bit hesitant. Are there any other recent 565 users who are also experiencing these issues with the v3 565, or issues with the programmers interfacing with them?
I just bought a 569 + 565v3 + 565D setup. :nana: Like the original poster, sometimes it flutters between quantized notes, and sometimes it's cool, sometimes not. But it is pretty easy to remedy if you dial in the right pitch a little more.

I love the 565D Quantize Controller. I could just go for hours moving through note combinations by changing them one or two or three at a time. I've only discovered one tiny quirk. What happens is, say you have five notes picked out, then you hit transpose - if you click one of the Octave buttons while in this Transpose mode, you love whatever notes you'd had selected and were trying to transpose. So you just don't change octaves while you're transposing.

JLR has been generous enough to answer some Moon related questions for me and turned me on to the 567 Universal Programmer. As soon as I understood the power it would wield in my system, I clicked ORDER NOW at Noisebug. :hyper: It's exactly what I'm looking for - any easy way to cycle thru chord shapes on my 565D. That alone is going to make my system much much more musical. :banana: I can't wait.

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Post by bwhittington » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:50 pm

xclark wrote:567 Universal Programmer
I can't say enough what a neat module this is to me. So fun to build sequences with additional programmed notes. The quantizer set with programmer is one of the cooler things in 5U in my opinion. I think you are going to love it.

Cheers,
Brian
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Post by xclark » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:58 am

I've read this thread a few times, so I learned the gate thing pretty shortly after I got the 569. But I'm pretty sure (I'm away for my modular for a week now :waah: ) that I got the in-between note flutters from the quantizer occasionally even with 'properly' patched gates. I'll have to confirm when I return home.

I'm a bit worried that the programmer is gonna be so cool, that I'll be forced :despair: to get the 568 Trigger Controller. Oh well, if I must. :nana:

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Difference between the 565D and 565E

Post by wsy » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:21 pm

I'm thinking seriously of getting a 565 suite.

My guess from reading is that the differences between the 565D and 565E are that:

The 565D has a built-in light show, you transpose by pushing buttons and then hitting
TRANSPOSE

The 565E has no light show, but you can transpose at the twist of a knob.

The E is ten bucks cheaper.

Is this right?

Any advice you can lend?

- Bill
"Life is short. But we can always buy longer patch cords" - Savage

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Post by zapp550 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:32 pm

xclark wrote:I've read this thread a few times, so I learned the gate thing pretty shortly after I got the 569. But I'm pretty sure (I'm away for my modular for a week now :waah: ) that I got the in-between note flutters from the quantizer occasionally even with 'properly' patched gates. I'll have to confirm when I return home.

I'm a bit worried that the programmer is gonna be so cool, that I'll be forced :despair: to get the 568 Trigger Controller. Oh well, if I must. :nana:
Mine's been working fine with all my sequencers now, the only "weird" one is it just doesn't seem to like my trigger ministore, but so long as the gate in is getting some voltage i'm no longer getting the "fluttering" I had before.
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Re: Difference between the 565D and 565E

Post by zapp550 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:39 pm

wsy wrote:I'm thinking seriously of getting a 565 suite.

My guess from reading is that the differences between the 565D and 565E are that:

The 565D has a built-in light show, you transpose by pushing buttons and then hitting
TRANSPOSE

The 565E has no light show, but you can transpose at the twist of a knob.

The E is ten bucks cheaper.

Is this right?

Any advice you can lend?

- Bill
I initially wanted the 565E for the feel of those switches, but I don't know if you could use it in conjunction with the universal programmer. Even if you could you'd have no visual feedback for any of the "presets" you made.
My new album-
[bandcamp width=100% height=120 album=2252334289 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]
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Post by bwhittington » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:34 pm

zapp550 wrote:I initially wanted the 565E for the feel of those switches, but I don't know if you could use it in conjunction with the universal programmer. Even if you could you'd have no visual feedback for any of the "presets" you made.
This is correct. The 565E feels great, but the 565D is the only choice if you want to use the programmer. If someone is uninterested in the programmer, I would pick the 565E, which feels a bit more solid to me. I've gotten some occasional fidgety stuff from the buttons feeling less responsive (albeit in a patch where the programmer was getting hit with a lot of pulses up and down).

Bill, speaking only from my personal experience, I'd definitely recommend it . . . as I guess I've done a couple of times in this thread already. :hihi: I foresee ending up with another 565D/567 eventually, if cabinet space permits.

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Post by xclark » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:12 pm

below is a video showing the Moon 565 Quantizer quirk, wherein it ouputs a flutter between notes sometimes.

and to be clear, this is patched 'correctly,' that is that the gates are mult'ed and shared both to the 565 Quantizer and to the Envelope Generator (i.e. I'm not using the gate that is being sent to the Quantizer to drive the EG).

it's not a big problem at all and I really, really love the 569+565+565D (controller) setup. so musical!

[video][/video]

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Post by EMwhite » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:32 pm

I've had similar issues and to echo what Brian said, sometimes (with the STG Volt mini-store) it gets funny at the edge of quantized notes so I need to tweak towards the middle.

If I watch the lights on the quant module firing, it doesn't always mirror a change in frequency CV + gate; somewhat strange, almost seems like there is a floating ground and depending on what else is patched it may behave differently.

My mults are all passive/simple wiring. I wonder how it would behave if I used buffered mults. Certainly the Trig Store is not well liked by the Moon stuff.

But like others, it's just part of the territory I guess. Things certainly could be worse... heck the fact that we are patching stuff, screwing with wave folders, mixing LFOs, using dividers, etc, it's a miracle that anything works : )

I've even had the most basic of issues with the Gate input on my Voyager, rectified after I had a tuneup at Moog. Lead edge/trailing edge (drop off), thresholds at which point gate will be recognized (Roger publishes this) and don't even get me started on Volt/octave gear that is more like .97.

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Post by zeta » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:54 am

ok, i've to confess that this morning i finally pulled the trigger and ordered a 565v3. should be here on tuesday. :party:
but, yeah i already ogle with the 565d, let's see how long it'll take...
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Post by sunsinger » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:43 pm

I've got the whole Time Modules suite in spades. I use it with the Q171+ Q172 quantizer setup. I've talked to Eric for a bit about the VMS and he mentioned that the module covers a pretty large octave to octave range.
Maybe 6 octaves or more.

Eric mentioned that this can be tamed by putting the VMS output through a passive attenuator before the quantizer. This narrows the voltage range variably, and has the effect of keeping things in check. This may work for your VMS ~ Quantizer relationships.

The Trigger Mini Store and the Quantizer need to share the same clock/ gate triggers in order for your timing issues to go away. I use an STG active mult setup to spread my clock around my synthesizer. This unifies everything on the synth and there are no issues at all when you use a unified clock. The active multi setup can jumper your clock everywhere without a loss in voltage, letting you ship clock to many modules.

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