Moon 565 Quantizer V3

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doctorvague
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Post by doctorvague » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:06 am

Ranxerox wrote: I have found it to be highly sensitive to gate length - it seems to continuously (and glitchily) sample the CV input for as long as the gate input is high, which means you have to manually reduce/fiddle with the gate duty cycle until it works as desired.
Interesting. Not always easy to accomplish that workaround depending on the patch and modules one has available.
Ranxerox wrote:It would be very much preferable if it just sampled the CV on the forward edge of each gate and ignored DC and negative-going voltages - why the hell it wasn't coded that way in the first place I have no idea.
Indeed.

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Dave Peck
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Post by Dave Peck » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:19 am

Re-reviving an older thread about the Moon Quantizer and Controller. Disregarding some of the early comments which appear to be patching issues that got resolved, there seems to be quite a few reports here of legitimate performance issues even when these modules are correctly patched.

Can anyone who is currently using these two modules comment on whether these issues are still happening? Has there been any action to fix them, or a sure-fire patching trick to reliably prevent them? I love the feature layout of this pair of modules, with the keyboard-style scale programmer, but I would be hesitant to buy them if these issues are still happening.

Or, does anyone know of any other MU/5U quantizers that have a keyboard-style scale programmer? The only other similar designs I am aware of are only in Euro format.
Last edited by Dave Peck on Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by VinceL » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:31 am

Dave Peck wrote: Or, does anyone know of any other MU/5U quantizers that have a keyboard-style scale programmer?
Dave,

When Roger started designing his Dotcom quantizer, he opened up discussion on the Dotcom Yahoo mailing list about the features and appearance of the quantizer. The discussions got pretty hot and heated with many people saying that certain features were absolutely mandatory and would be dealbreakers if they were not included. Roger was quite frustrated by the negativity of many people. He no longer opens up design discussions for new modules to the general community.

What does this have to do with the Moon quantizer you may ask. :hmm:

Well, one of the designs that was discussed had the same features and looked almost exactly like the current Moon 565D with the keyboard-style scale programmer. When the Moon 565D came out, it was clear to the members of the Dotcom mailing list where the inspiration for it came from.

Sorry that this doesn't answer your question, but it is a bit of interesting 5U/MU synth history.
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Dave Peck
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Post by Dave Peck » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:49 pm

Yes, I was one of the people who first suggested the keyboard-style layout when Roger was inquiring about this topic (although I was polite about it and didn't engage in any squabbling over this topic). But it wasn't my idea initially. I've been a Nord Modular user from way back and I got the idea from the layout of the virtual quantizer module in the Nord modular, which has a similar keyboard-type interface.

Since then, there have been several other quantizers that use this type of interface, although they are all Euro except for the Moon (Intelligel, ADDAC, Flame, etc.) .

One thing that I find odd is that some of them have the keyboard 'upside-down', with the LOW key at the top, and ascending pitches as you go DOWN... just seems counterintuitive to me, and I don't understand why a designer would arrange the panel like that...

In any case, if anyone can chime in about whether the Moon modules are now working correctly or still exhibiting the symptoms described above, it would be appreciated.

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Post by Dave Peck » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:59 pm

Just a final bump before I let this slip to the bottom -

Anybody with a Moon Quantizer want to tell us if the issues described above have been resolved...... ?

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Post by Minimoog56 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:02 pm

Buggy as hell but I love/live with it... :bang:
Last edited by Minimoog56 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nidas » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:40 am

I´m also looking to get a Quantizer.. It seems like the Moon is still buggy, but people still use them..

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Post by alternating.bit » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:21 am

Dave Peck wrote: One thing that I find odd is that some of them have the keyboard 'upside-down', with the LOW key at the top, and ascending pitches as you go DOWN... just seems counterintuitive to me, and I don't understand why a designer would arrange the panel like that..
Think of it like the spine of a book. Typically we tilt our heads to the right and read left to right.

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Post by milkshake » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:27 am

alternating.bit wrote:
Dave Peck wrote: One thing that I find odd is that some of them have the keyboard 'upside-down', with the LOW key at the top, and ascending pitches as you go DOWN... just seems counterintuitive to me, and I don't understand why a designer would arrange the panel like that..
Think of it like the spine of a book. Typically we tilt our heads to the right and read left to right.
Joe Zawinul has composed the melody of "Black Market" on a reversed keyboard.
You can see him playing the reversed keyboard on this video:
[video][/video]
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Post by Dave Peck » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:34 pm

nidas wrote:I´m also looking to get a Quantizer.. It seems like the Moon is still buggy, but people still use them..
Yeah, darn it. I really don't want a buggy quantizer in my rig that will randomly glitch while I'm recording and ruin the track. I'm hoping this eventually gets fixed. Or perhaps someone else will offer a 5U quantizer with either a keyboard-type interface or some other way to limit the output to exactly the notes you choose, rather than a selection of predetermined scales.

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Post by ericD13 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:28 am

Dave Peck wrote:Or perhaps someone else will offer a 5U quantizer with either a keyboard-type interface or some other way to limit the output to exactly the notes you choose, rather than a selection of predetermined scales.
Maybe
http://cluboftheknobs.com/pro_cp958.html
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https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=219781

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Post by milkshake » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:16 am

ericD13 wrote:
Dave Peck wrote:Or perhaps someone else will offer a 5U quantizer with either a keyboard-type interface or some other way to limit the output to exactly the notes you choose, rather than a selection of predetermined scales.
Maybe
http://cluboftheknobs.com/pro_cp958.html
Rob Hordijk can put any scale (up to 16) into the quantizer if you wish. The range and scale knobs do the rest.
And most importantly: It's completely glitch free.

And if you have the money to spend, he'll make anything you want.

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Post by Dave Peck » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:58 pm

Thanks for the heads-up, EricD & milkshake.

That COTK module looks great but... Doh! It's in half-height "CP" format, not 5U, so it wouldn't work in my system (all Dotcom studio cabinets). And Hordijk modules are excellent! I have several of Rob's modules in their early single-module versions rather than the triple-module panels he makes now (dual phaser, OSC HRM, phase filter, 24dB multimode filter). And yes, his quantizer is great, but it's not available as a separate module. It's one of the functions within the Node Processor, which must also include at least the mini-matrix, making the module at least four spaces wide. Those are all great, but when you're just looking for a quantizer it's overkill.

Wish we could get something like the Euro Intellijel uScale or uScale-II in a single-width 5U module.....


http://www.intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/%C2%B5scale/

and

http://www.intellijel.com/eurorack-modu ... 5scale-ii/


Update... Ya know, I could install that Intelligel-II quantizer and an Intelligel unity mixer (for accurately combining the keyboard CV output with whatever I'm feeding to the quantizer) next to each other in a single-width 5U blank panel that has a large rectangular hole cut in it to act as a Euro-to-single-width 5U adapter panel... and there would be room on the panel above & below the Euro modules to install 1/4" jacks for all the ins & outs and wire those jacks to the two module's PCBs behind the panel.... Hmm.

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Post by milkshake » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:41 am

I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:53 am

milkshake wrote:I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.
Demo please! :hyper: :sb:

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Post by milkshake » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:31 am

JohnLRice wrote:
milkshake wrote:I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.
Demo please! :hyper: :sb:
I was thinking about how to do this properly and this is what I came up with. If anyone knows/wants a different testing method, I'll do that.

Patch: Offset into quantizer. Quantizer into HRM into recorder.
Manual sweeping of the offset trying to cause a glitch.
http://soundcloud.com/milkshake001-1/rhd-quantizer-demo

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:00 am

milkshake wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
milkshake wrote:I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.
Demo please! :hyper: :sb:
I was thinking about how to do this properly and this is what I came up with. If anyone knows/wants a different testing method, I'll do that.

Patch: Offset into quantizer. Quantizer into HRM into recorder.
Manual sweeping of the offset trying to cause a glitch.
http://soundcloud.com/milkshake001-1/rhd-quantizer-demo
Thanks for the demo, it sounds very solid! :tu:

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Post by sonicwarrior » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:15 am

milkshake wrote:I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.
And which one is it? I must have been missing manufacturer and model. :hmm:
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Post by milkshake » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:28 am

sonicwarrior wrote:
milkshake wrote:I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.
And which one is it? I must have been missing manufacturer and model. :hmm:
Rob Hordijk Design.
It's part of the node processor/mini matrix module.

Most quantizers are "glitchy" and you need some clever programming to make it glitch free.
Do others know quantizers that are glitch free?

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Post by nidas » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:05 am

milkshake wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
milkshake wrote:I only know of 1 quantizer that's glitch free.
Demo please! :hyper: :sb:
I was thinking about how to do this properly and this is what I came up with. If anyone knows/wants a different testing method, I'll do that.

Patch: Offset into quantizer. Quantizer into HRM into recorder.
Manual sweeping of the offset trying to cause a glitch.
http://soundcloud.com/milkshake001-1/rhd-quantizer-demo
Thanks for the demo! To bad he does not longer sell single modules.. But hey his Twin peak filter sounds great also.. so Maybe.. hmm

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Post by hamildad » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:44 am

Hello all,

I have a few issues with modules that dont seem to work, one is the Moon quantiser & keyboard extender..

it might be user error but I have stripped out most of my modules to test and that shows its not an underpowered PSU, ( which was a different matter)

I think I am using this correctly, but can anyone with exprience look at the video I hav euploaded and see if I am correct?

TL:DR is that it seems to light up correctly, but when I send it variable voltages from an acRLS or in the video a 1601 sequencer, it does not output anything..

and when you use the keyboard extender it also doesnt output everything but the gate trigger pulses as its supposed to..

Am I being an idiot, or does this have to go back to Gert??

[video][/video]

btw. I am trying to learn premiere so apologies that this int that good.. I will get better so subscribe to my Youtube.
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Post by ualslosar » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:01 am

I may be wrong, but don't these quantizers need a gate signal input as well as a CV to quantize?

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:47 am

hamildad wrote:Hello all,

I have a few issues with modules that dont seem to work, one is the Moon quantiser & keyboard extender..
I'd check to make sure you have the keyboard expander plugged into the correct port (should be expander port #1 and not the expander #2 or the programmer port). If that is correct I'd try it with the expander keyboard completely disconnected, it should work chromatically then. (you may have already tried this, I wasn't sure from your post)
ualslosar wrote:I may be wrong, but don't these quantizers need a gate signal input as well as a CV to quantize?
No, all you need is a CV input and then it will step to the next voltage and fire out a gate when the input CV changes enough. The gate input is handy for only grabbing a new note when you want one.

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Post by hamildad » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:48 am

I think I have tried it both with the expander and without...

without, I just input a 0 > 5V signal ( such as the slider on a 1601) and it should scale up through the notes?

this is what I expect to happen, but seems no output... I have read of glitching, so just wanted to check there was no user error...
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Post by JohnLRice » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:10 am

I posted a reference video for you on Instagram as a sanity check so you can see how a 565 should react to a swept voltage: 8-)

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