Sound of Shadows Expansion Module

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flight
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Sound of Shadows Expansion Module

Post by flight » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:17 pm

Okiedokie! Here's the place to discuss the SoS expander module.
Planned features:
New
  • Delay length LED
  • Buffered clock output
Duplicates of existing, but including an attenuator on each
  • CV in
    • Rate
    • Feedback
    • VCA
  • Audio in
    • Input
This will all fit in 8hp, maybe even 6hp.
I'm looking for any input you may have - opinions on the above and suggestions of features not in the list.
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Post by dude » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:52 pm

perfect. make it so!

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Soy Sos
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Post by Soy Sos » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:55 pm

I dunno. What opportunities for perversion of the PT chip exist?
The weirder and gnarlyer the better for me.
Some sort of clock/sync/reset in?
Infinite loop?
Fuckerupper?
Whatever magic/juju you stumbled across with the Plague Bearer....

More of that!

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Post by Nuuj » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:08 pm

Reverse mode.
The ability to link two together somehow?
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Post by flight » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:12 pm

Well, here's the flowchart again to help with ideas:
Image
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Post by dude » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:33 pm

green led

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Post by flight » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:56 pm

Nuuj wrote:Reverse mode.
Reverse what?
The ability to link two together somehow?
Link what?
You can already "daisy-chain" as many SoS together as you want:
Delay out1 --> Input2 --> Delay out2 --> Insert1, take the output signal from Mix out1/VCA out1 & presto, double the delay length (with feedback as well)!
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Post by goiks » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:08 pm

Soy Sos wrote:Some sort of clock/sync/reset in?
this would be most useful.

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Post by Suburban Bather » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:14 pm

flight wrote:
Nuuj wrote:Reverse mode.
Reverse what?

I believe he means reversed repeats, which would be awesome.
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Post by flight » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:28 pm

This was addressed in the "FoH Delay...lay...lay..lay..ay...ay...y...???" thread, but I should post it here as well:

The PT2399 Delay IC, which is what is used in the SoS, is a self-contained digital delay on one chip: Input & output buffers, memory, and clock. Which means that there is no way to access the basic operation of the delay aside from varying the clock rate. It is a very basic (but cool!) delay that was intended just for use in Karaoke machines, so it takes a bit of work & external circuitry to even get the voltage control as in the SoS.
goiks wrote:
Soy Sos wrote:Some sort of clock/sync/reset in?
this would be most useful.
Bearing the above in mind, there may be something that could be done here. Would you elucidate please?
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Post by Soy Sos » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:34 pm

I guess if there is a way to hack into the clock input using various pulses, noise, CV, etc..until something brutal happens. Please keep in mind that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Just something even more Flight of Harmony.

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Post by goiks » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:51 pm

i was thinking more along the lines of somehow varying the clock rate as a division/multiplication of another signal, to sync to a tempo. i somehow missed your discussion before, but assumed it wasn't trivial or you would have done it already.

given that the above may not be doable, any type of foh clock input magic/mayhem would be welcome.

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Post by flight » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:19 am

The clock is internal, so no clock input. All you can do is vary the amount of current sunk from the clock. Any new tricks done here could also be done with CV - since that is effectively what I would be doing anyway - so I didn't bother. However, perhaps something interesting (certainly chaotic) could be done with feeding the clock output (a division thereof) into the Rate control / using it to chop or gate the rate...
:hmm:
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Post by HeWhoWantsJeans » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:41 pm

flight wrote:The clock is internal, so no clock input. All you can do is vary the amount of current sunk from the clock. Any new tricks done here could also be done with CV - since that is effectively what I would be doing anyway - so I didn't bother. However, perhaps something interesting (certainly chaotic) could be done with feeding the clock output (a division thereof) into the Rate control / using it to chop or gate the rate...
:hmm:
Would there be any way to have the divisor applied to the clock output selectable or able to be modified by CV?

Bonus: what about the ability to use a Gate to turn on the 'certainly chaotic' addition?

And if any of this sound crazy, it's because I'm speaking from a dank, dark place.
:omg:
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Post by flight » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:34 pm

HeWhoWantsJeans wrote: ...
Would there be any way to have the divisor applied to the clock output selectable or able to be modified by CV?
Yes, that would be best. I can employ a circuit I've been pondering for a future module.
Bonus: what about the ability to use a Gate to turn on the 'certainly chaotic' addition?
Heh, the "certainly chaotic" was not meant to be taken as an optional aspect. ;)
Think about it:
Using the clock that controls the delay speed to vary the speed of the clock that controls the delay speed.

It would be a recursive implementation and very difficult to predict - assuming it is even a useful or interesting effect (but I'm pretty sure it would be).
And if any of this sound crazy, it's because I'm speaking from a dank, dark place.
:omg:
Nah, not at all. But you should save up some of those desiccant packets (you know, the ones that so many old people kept thinking were sugar packets that they had to start printing "Silica gel, desiccant, DO NOT EAT" on the packets?) and at least clear up that dank problem before you get mold. Ew.
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Post by jenamu6 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:47 pm

flight wrote: Nah, not at all. But you should save up some of those desiccant packets (you know, the ones that so many old people kept thinking were sugar packets that they had to start printing "Silica gel, desiccant, DO NOT EAT" on the packets?) and at least clear up that dank problem before you get mold. Ew.
Ate that shit once.......gave me a dry mouth, but no buzz at all.

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Post by gde » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:43 pm

one thing i futzed around with on my old boss digital delay that you might like
is to have a hard sync input on the clock

this will not sync the delay or make it become in rhythm but it instead creates interesting formats

the boss pedal had a basic vco but if the clocking range on the PT is set by a capacitor you can achieve a sync by discharging it with a transistor

im assuming the results will vary widely from circuit to circuit but i was able to get some gnarly sounds in addition to some "pretty" timbres on the pedal
LOL

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Post by HeWhoWantsJeans » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:48 pm

flight wrote: Yes, that would be best. I can employ a circuit I've been pondering for a future module.
Excellent. I'm glad to hear my stupid idea is a possibility.
:tu:
flight wrote: Heh, the "certainly chaotic" was not meant to be taken as an optional aspect. ;)
I only mean 'optional' in the sense that you could have an original delay clock time and when desired, totally :sb: it to piss.

Bonus: how would the delay clock revert back to it's original state? I imagine a world where I have a snare hit going into a SoS, which is set to (roughly) have repeats on the quarter-notes of a song. Say I click on the 'chaos' function with a gate for the last half-measure of a loop.

Snare (repeat) (repeat) (repeat) | (repeat) (repeat) *CHAOS x2*

I imagine some :goo: amazingly creative sounds coming to life.
flight wrote: Think about it:
Using the clock that controls the delay speed to vary the speed of the clock that controls the delay speed.

It would be a recursive implementation and very difficult to predict - assuming it is even a useful or interesting effect (but I'm pretty sure it would be).
It would be :deadbanana: fantastic - that's what it would be.
flight wrote:Nah, not at all. But you should save up some of those desiccant packets (you know, the ones that so many old people kept thinking were sugar packets that they had to start printing "Silica gel, desiccant, DO NOT EAT" on the packets?) and at least clear up that dank problem before you get mold. Ew.
Crap. Will that do anything about ye ol gout?
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Post by flight » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:12 pm

gde wrote:one thing i futzed around with on my old boss digital delay that you might like
is to have a hard sync input on the clock

this will not sync the delay or make it become in rhythm but it instead creates interesting formats

the boss pedal had a basic vco but if the clocking range on the PT is set by a capacitor you can achieve a sync by discharging it with a transistor

im assuming the results will vary widely from circuit to circuit but i was able to get some gnarly sounds in addition to some "pretty" timbres on the pedal
No can do. The delay is *entirely* monolithic, the only external components are to set the input & output filter characteristic & frequency. The rate is controlled by the amount of current sunk from pin 6, so it's kind of tricky to do anything precise or unusual. Furthermore, using the frequency-to-delay-time table from the datasheet, the relationship of f to t (frequency to time) is somewhat irregular. Neither linear nor logarithmic. I haven't had the time to chart it out myself yet either.
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Post by computer controlled » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:56 pm

If it was intended for Karaoke, can it do Freebird??? :despair:
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Post by flight » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:39 pm

computer controlled wrote:If it was intended for Karaoke, can it do Freebird??? :despair:
:huh:
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Post by Kent » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:28 am

After looking at the block diagram and page 6 of the manual:
  • •VCA on Delay out that has a Pos/Neg switch so that one can pan/cross-fade between Wet & Dry. This would also be handy for fading in inserted FX as well.
    •Perhaps add a simple & passive 2:1 mixer on there as well for easy Wet/Dry action. It looks as if the current implementation of the onboard VCA is Post-Wet/Dry Mix so this could be cool.

    •Any circuit bends on the PT chip? Perhaps some momentary push-buttons or SPST (or other) switches if fun is to be had here.

    •Bring the clock out to the panel? Your description of the clock on the PT leads me to think that it is an oddball. It could still be fun to clock something like a Doepfer A-188-* with it.

    •RTEPT3 v. ref. for rate control minimum. Can this be abused?

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Post by gde » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:20 am

how does the clock respond to audiorate control voltages?
LOL

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Post by flight » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:48 pm

Kent wrote:After looking at the block diagram and page 6 of the manual:
  • •VCA on Delay out that has a Pos/Neg switch so that one can pan/cross-fade between Wet & Dry. This would also be handy for fading in inserted FX as well.
Not quite sure what you mean here, but it has reminded me that I was thinking about a VC Mix.
•Perhaps add a simple & passive 2:1 mixer on there as well for easy Wet/Dry action. It looks as if the current implementation of the onboard VCA is Post-Wet/Dry Mix so this could be cool.
Still unsure.
•Any circuit bends on the PT chip? Perhaps some momentary push-buttons or SPST (or other) switches if fun is to be had here.
Good idea. There are a few bend points on there that I found. I made a test rig that brings all the connections out for easier testing and I often end up playing with the exposed traces.
•Bring the clock out to the panel? Your description of the clock on the PT leads me to think that it is an oddball. It could still be fun to clock something like a Doepfer A-188-* with it.
Yup, doing this.
•RTEPT3 v. ref. for rate control minimum. Can this be abused?[/list]
Possibly... I have to look at it again.
gde wrote:how does the clock respond to audiorate control voltages?
Damn good question, anybody want to chime in on this?
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Post by dude » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:14 am

i'll check in a second if someone hasn't already

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