16FW Frames (still proto for now)

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BugBrand
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16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by BugBrand » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:21 am

I've wanted to get back to offering 16FW Frames for a while & have been gradually moving things forwards - very much along the lines of the 11FW Frames, just wider (the 11FW were sized so as to be compatible with 19" approaches).

So a 2x16FW gives just 1FW less than a 3x11FW setup - I always liked the scope/form when I had them going 7-8 years back.

These have 16 power headers on a 4-layer PCB distro with measured low impedance.
Current capacity is 660mA per rail [compared with 500mA per rail for 11FW Frame]
Still 12VDC input (1.85A per row) with 0V banana socket.

I should have some production prototypes available over the next weeks if anyone is interested (priced around £200 per row - tbc).
Note that these ones have some extra holes - on the bottom for an out-dated mounting layout, and on the upright front/back (aimed to bolt frames together but think I'll drop that)

Pics:
16FW_proto1.jpg
16FW_proto2.jpg
16FW_proto4.jpg
16FW_proto3.jpg

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hollunderkurve
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by hollunderkurve » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:06 pm

interesting - sort of like the R*S XL boat for :bugbrand:

had not really thought about expanding in that direction.... could make for some interesting 1F setups though - do like the idea of all the patch bays being on the same latitude as opposed to the 2F where the cables form a kind of umbrella, would keep all the knobs/switches/etc. free

:party:

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phisynth
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by phisynth » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:33 am

Great news ! 16FW FTW :party: :party:

I'd keep the front/back holes, makes it so much easier to test various configs. I personally drilled some holes in older frames just to do that.

Couple questions :
Will these be compatible with older blue modules ?
How does it work regarding power ? Standard 12v PSU ? Possible to connect multiple frames together with a single PSU ? If yes, how many ?

Thanks

Ph

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by BugBrand » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:36 am

phisynth wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:33 am
Great news ! 16FW FTW :party: :party:

I'd keep the front/back holes, makes it so much easier to test various configs. I personally drilled some holes in older frames just to do that.

Couple questions :
Will these be compatible with older blue modules ?
How does it work regarding power ? Standard 12v PSU ? Possible to connect multiple frames together with a single PSU ? If yes, how many ?

Thanks

Ph
Front/back holes - can I just check you're referring to the 3 small 3mm holes, rather than the big holes for DC/0V distribution on the left-hand side (those are staying)

Old blues - no, like the regular frames I've drawn a line under the old blues as many of them will work less than optimally on the DCDC power - I know that's something of an over-simplification, but it is too hard for me to stay on top of old & new mixes.

Power - like the 11FW Powered Frames - 12VDC input with DCDC on each distro board.
I haven't fully tested more than 2 together, but any voltage drop on the MTA156 headers for DC/0V is minimal.
Still I'd probably stick to running these in pairs for a variety of reasons (ie. one power brick per pair of Frames)

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shred
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by shred » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:46 am

very nice! and very tempting! I've all but committed to the 11FW frame as it easily fits into rack cases, but if I was starting a system now I would seriously consider these. Something about the extra length feels very ergonomic and playable. And I agree with hollundkurve, these would be great for a really expressive 1 Frame system, either on it's own or as an add on to other banana modular systems.
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phisynth
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by phisynth » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:53 am

Thanks Tom !

Too bad for the old blue modules, I guess I'm stuck with my heavy PSU's then
BugBrand wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:36 am
Front/back holes - can I just check you're referring to the 3 small 3mm holes, rather than the big holes for DC/0V distribution on the left-hand side (those are staying)
yes these were the ones I'm referring to, because I have currently 3 X 16 FW attached together (some of these are 11FW + 5FW, limiting the positioning of modules - hence my interest), impossible to do it with the regular PCB cheeks, but of course no problems if you limit yourself to pairs - but impractical in my case

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by northerntao » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:24 pm

Haha, a few months ago and I might have started with these. But 3 11FW in, I’m invested. Plus the option to go 19” is handy.

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by BananaPlug » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:20 am

Very sharp. It's a comfortable span and a 3 row system makes an attractive 3:4 ratio.
(Sounds)--> :eek:

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by nikfrisbee » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:33 am

I had experimented with 16 FW by fixing the 5FW to the full frame. As I discussed with you; I made my second frame up
by using 5x3x3 FW, I though the frames could be fixed together and the three screw placements was a clever design feature. Two screws fixed one way and the last opposite. However I recently when with a dual framer and my 5x3x3FW creation. To make a 3 frame. Not a great solution...

However a dual 16FW would be ideal for me to go along with a planned 2x Serge XL boats - I’m just trying to work out how one would extend an original spec serge panel to an xl? The RS panels in my other boat is straightforward to achieve.

I guess for get a dual 16 FW would require me to sell the following;

2x11FW dual framer
3x3 FW including (1x 3FW pt delay)
1x5 FW

Probably have to sell the red delay and replace it with a blue. To achieve one red (albeit a dual divide-I found this sits best between the DRM’s) and one blue 16FW.
So, If peeps require any of the above, feel free to make yourself known. Thank you
Last edited by nikfrisbee on Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by BugBrand » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:12 pm

Yes, people trying to add together smaller frames & all the inherent wiring was a major driver to get me back towards proper 16FW.

The 2x11FW is still a great building block so should be useful for someone.
Well, the smaller ones are too - but not so much for modular.
Guess that opens the question of what others do with 'spare' 3/5FW cases - keep them for occasional standalone use?

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by shred » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:03 pm

I've been contemplating what to do with the 3 and 5FW cases I have, and at the moment I'm leaning towards selling them (to go towards funding another 11FW row hehe).

I doubt you want to wade into this territory, but it would be great to somehow be able to connect a 3 & 5 FW and have a little standalone power/distro board for it to use as a control "boat". 2 Joysticks and some Logic & summing...or what have you. I primarily keep my 3 rows of 11FW upright at an angle and it would be cool to have a little boat to sit in front of it. But then at that rate, it almost makes sense to just go with another 11FW row instead.

The standalone cases seem like a great idea for those who want to add a little big of Bugs into a different setup. A PT Delay alongside a Euro system, Matrix mixer alongside other banana gear, or Stereo Comp mixed into an electroacoustic setup, etc...
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by nikfrisbee » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:07 pm

shred wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:03 pm
The standalone cases seem like a great idea for those who want to add a little big of Bugs into a different setup. A PT Delay alongside a Euro system, Matrix mixer alongside other banana gear, or Stereo Comp mixed into an electroacoustic setup, etc...
See that’s the clever hook - once you have taken the bait 3/5FW hook your whisked into :bugbrand: :bugbrand: :bugbrand: world. :help:

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by BugBrand » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 am

Couple of extra notes:
- 3/5FW - I now have a 190mA DCDC board with three power headers for small setups --- the standard 100mA DCDC board, with only one pwr header, is only suitable for a single module. [Note though that a large number of 5FW cases only had 4 front mounting holes so can only fit a single 5FW module]
- while much of the blue range is 1 or 2FW, I do still try to work with the core 3 & 5FW sizes - eg. something like the Matrix can nicely sit in its own 5FW case, out front from the main modular - just as shred said!

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by nikfrisbee » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:15 pm

BugBrand wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 am
Couple of extra notes:
- 3/5FW - I now have a 190mA DCDC board with three power headers for small setups --- the standard 100mA DCDC board, with only one pwr header, is only suitable for a single module. [Note though that a large number of 5FW cases only had 4 front mounting holes so can only fit a single 5FW module]
Tom that’s maybe game changer for me personally, I have a 5FW case with 10 mounting holes. Let me have a think and a shuffle about that might work for me getting a 5FW case with x3 power header.I’m thinking, if I swap the headers around in the 5FW cases I may just work.

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by lud » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:50 pm

BugBrand wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 am
Couple of extra notes:
- 3/5FW - I now have a 190mA DCDC board with three power headers for small setups --- the standard 100mA DCDC board, with only one pwr header, is only suitable for a single module. [Note though that a large number of 5FW cases only had 4 front mounting holes so can only fit a single 5FW module]
- while much of the blue range is 1 or 2FW, I do still try to work with the core 3 & 5FW sizes - eg. something like the Matrix can nicely sit in its own 5FW case, out front from the main modular - just as shred said!
That's awesome to hear Tom, I asked you about that a while back and you said they were planned. Perfect for little portable setups

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by joncharliefeathers » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:18 pm

Would it be possible to bolt 3 frames together and power from one brick Tom?

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by chrisdermo » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:14 pm

BugBrand wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 am
Couple of extra notes:
- 3/5FW - I now have a 190mA DCDC board with three power headers for small setups --- the standard 100mA DCDC board, with only one pwr header, is only suitable for a single module. [Note though that a large number of 5FW cases only had 4 front mounting holes so can only fit a single 5FW module]
- while much of the blue range is 1 or 2FW, I do still try to work with the core 3 & 5FW sizes - eg. something like the Matrix can nicely sit in its own 5FW case, out front from the main modular - just as shred said!
Really great to hear this, having cludged my own 3 and 5 width cases together in various configs for portable set ups and front of rack control elements over the years and always being constrained by the mA output of the DCDC board it'd be really awesome to be able to do it more comfortably!
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by syncretism » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:00 pm

I'd love to have a pair of 16FW boats connected with the "long" end-pieces. Very interested, here.

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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by Malekko » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm

NOW ya do this!!! :lol: :lol: :party:
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Re: 16FW Frames (still proto for now)

Post by BugBrand » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:40 am

Malekko wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm
NOW ya do this!!! :lol: :lol: :party:
I know, I know!

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