Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 Sampler

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johnnylonz
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Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 Sampler

Post by johnnylonz » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:02 am

http://www.pioneerdj.com/en/product/pro ... /overview/

Looks interesting, although for the price I think I'd rather get an Octatrack. And although it does have inputs, it doesn't make clear whether or not you can live sample into it?

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Post by Kennymester » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:16 am

Pretty interesting concept especially with the Pro DJ Link. I really hope though that you can do more than just 1/16 also I hope you can play samples at different pitches. Kind of disappointed too there isn't a synth engine built in. I'm also wondering if they are selling this more as a drum machine or a groovebox.

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Post by Hi5 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:25 am

Also, I assume the filters and drive are available per voice as opposed to the overall mix. Without the filters and fx per voice it's quite overpriced. Hopefully this doesn't suffer from bugs like the Tempest was plagued with.
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Re: Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 Sampler

Post by DiscoDevil » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:29 am

johnnylonz wrote:http://www.pioneerdj.com/en/product/pro ... /overview/

Looks interesting, although for the price I think I'd rather get an Octatrack. And although it does have inputs, it doesn't make clear whether or not you can live sample into it?
I'd be very surprised if you can't. It's supposed to be a performance "DJ" tool so I'd assume it has live sampling and looping capabilities that sync to midi clock.

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Post by xonetacular » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:30 am

Might be interesting on it's own but IDK about this kind of stuff as an actual tool for DJs- it all seems kind of pointless. For a while the trendy thing to do was use maschine with traktor, and I think that's also pretty pointless and just for show. Adding some extra hihats and one shots or whatever doesn't actually add anything to a dj set. Most of the time adding that stuff to mastered tracks just makes it worse.

All these extra fancy tech tools seem like they are just for show to feed DJ's egos since they want to be seen doing more up there than just mixing tracks together since being a DJ has gotten a lot easier with technology.

I can appreciate a great DJ who is a master of selection and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. DJs should be DJs, and if they want to do more than that they should do a real live setup but these half assed hybrid gimmicks are just dumb.

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Post by johnnylonz » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:08 am

xonetacular wrote:Might be interesting on it's own but IDK about this kind of stuff as an actual tool for DJs- it all seems kind of pointless. For a while the trendy thing to do was use maschine with traktor, and I think that's also pretty pointless and just for show. Adding some extra hihats and one shots or whatever doesn't actually add anything to a dj set. Most of the time adding that stuff to mastered tracks just makes it worse.

All these extra fancy tech tools seem like they are just for show to feed DJ's egos since they want to be seen doing more up there than just mixing tracks together since being a DJ has gotten a lot easier with technology.

I can appreciate a great DJ who is a master of selection and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. DJs should be DJs, and if they want to do more than that they should do a real live setup but these half assed hybrid gimmicks are just dumb.
For straight DJing it definitely seems overkill, but in more of a "live pa" situation it could be dope. Especially for live sampling loops off the modular and whatnot, mixing in stems from your self-produced tracks/samples etc. And having the individual outs gives it a leg up on an Octatrack in that situation as well.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:12 am

xonetacular wrote:Might be interesting on it's own but IDK about this kind of stuff as an actual tool for DJs- it all seems kind of pointless. For a while the trendy thing to do was use maschine with traktor, and I think that's also pretty pointless and just for show. Adding some extra hihats and one shots or whatever doesn't actually add anything to a dj set. Most of the time adding that stuff to mastered tracks just makes it worse.

All these extra fancy tech tools seem like they are just for show to feed DJ's egos since they want to be seen doing more up there than just mixing tracks together since being a DJ has gotten a lot easier with technology.

I can appreciate a great DJ who is a master of selection and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. DJs should be DJs, and if they want to do more than that they should do a real live setup but these half assed hybrid gimmicks are just dumb.

While I've never used it, I thought the point of Maschine integration was so people could perform their own material or remixes, edits, etc live like Ableton

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Post by xonetacular » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:17 am

Can it even live sample? It doesn't mention it.

"Just load samples, create patterns, add FX, loops, and manipulate their parameters to make your music your own."

It does have one pair of inputs, so who knows.

Also looks limited to only 16 steps on the sequencer
DiscoDevil wrote:
While I've never used it, I thought the point of Maschine integration was so people could perform their own material or remixes, edits, etc live like Ableton
Oh I didn't even know traktor finally actually got maschine integration. I was thinking back to a few years ago where people were setting it up via workarounds. it didn't seem like people were using it to perform their own material then.
Last edited by xonetacular on Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by chorus7 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:18 am

It looks a lot like the new Akai MPC :hmm: is Pioneer owned by the same company as Akai?

Big difference would be that it looks stand alone...

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Post by johnnylonz » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:22 am

xonetacular wrote:
Also looks limited to only 16 steps on the sequencer
Those 4 little buttons to the right of the sequencer makes me think you could do up to 64 - kind of like on an elektron box. But can't find any documentation to back that up.

And yeah I'm also not clear on the live sampling functionality, although it seems to have inputs but not include that functionality would be dumb.

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Post by graphixsounds » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:58 am

it doesnt seem like all of the information is out on this box.

it seems like a competitor to the octatrack, which has many haters at this point because of the UX/UI difficulties.

im hoping that it can do ableton live session view loop/scene playing

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Post by graphixsounds » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:59 am

pioneer make very high quality hardware and intuitive user interfaces- im excited to find out more

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Post by CF3 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:19 pm

Interesting for sure. This came outta nowhere. Need more info, but WOW.... Way to go Pioneer.

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Post by Villarceau » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:26 pm

I have an irrational lust for PioneerDJ products. Luckily this time, it is offset by my rational dislike of DSI. Still almost tempting though...

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:58 pm

I guess there will be no prizes for guessing DSI where doing the filters and also grab the attention of a certain market at the same time.


If it Pioneer you can be sure it is gonna be built well. Ticks boxes for me as the fx will likely sound good for live too.
There is a gap in the market for a well built sampler that is easy to use and perform on, I hope this does well.

I'd of liked to of seen performance sliders , but I guess Pioneer would just say they have a range of powerful mixers.

Nice one Pioneer!

Just saw the price, this really needs to be able to do what it says on the tin for that, I.e the time stretch has hold up against Live etc. If it is filter per voice then that might be a no brainier for me , especially if it has a bit more presence than the RYTM I had, which was great but just felt too halfway house.

Can anybody confirm you can actually sample ? I will bang my head if you can't sample on the fly.

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Post by AdamJay » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:23 pm

I hope this forces Elektron's hand in pushing out an Octatrack 2.

Also worth noting that this thing ain't exactly the model of portability. At 10.28” x 17.19” it's larger than the Tempest.
Say what you will about Elektron, at least you can fit three of them in a hard case that's carry-on approved.

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Post by jshell » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:35 pm

Regarding the filters - they don't seem to be per-voice, but I've only skimmed this article.

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2016/04/w ... r-filters/
The high-pass and low-pass filters are each based on those on the Prophet-6. DSI didn’t just email over the specs for their filters to Pioneer in Japan and call it a day. There are some differences that DSI have confirmed to CDM. Some technical details are different (think voltage), but the main changes are these:

You get two of each (one for each channel in the stereo signal path); the Prophet-6 is mono.
With the filter section having dedicated knobs with hard-printed graphics, I suspect they really are just on the outputs?
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Post by boboter » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:40 pm

I'm pretty sure there is just one pair of analog filters, not one per voice. In the CDM interview, Dave Smith says it is a true stereo filter. So having this per voice would be quite a bit more expensive judging by the cost of eg a prophet 12.

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jshell beat me to it. Sorry for the redundance
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Post by johnnylonz » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:53 pm

jshell wrote: With the filter section having dedicated knobs with hard-printed graphics, I suspect they really are just on the outputs?
If I had to guess I'd say just the one filter and then you route what you want through it from the fx screen on each voice.

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Post by Hi5 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:09 pm

Given only a stereo filter the FX better be something special since outside of the extra channels this isn't worth that much more than an Octa. I doubt the sequencer will be as flexible as the Octa so sound-wise this better be special
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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:16 pm

AdamJay wrote:I hope this forces Elektron's hand in pushing out an Octatrack 2.

Also worth noting that this thing ain't exactly the model of portability. At 10.28” x 17.19” it's larger than the Tempest.
Say what you will about Elektron, at least you can fit three of them in a hard case that's carry-on approved.
This actually comes as a comfort to me. I was worried from the pictures we would have RYTM sized pads and encoders that were too close together.

Just having a sturdy build sampler in the 21st century would be welcome. I hope they didn't mess up with the pads. If it is anything like the pioneer gear I have owned before, it will take a lot of abuse.

Thanks also, does look like it is a master filter :( don't find that much use for that, I can't see them having layering etc , either. I don't think this is ment to be an MPC style type piece,more a performance phrase sampler/ Drum machine, just probably a high quality one.

I may just order it to give it a try be I have been waiting for something like this for so long. All prep can be done on computers now days, I have just wanted a quick sampler and play back device of decent quality and size.
Last edited by h4ndcrafted on Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by CF3 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:19 pm

Hi5 wrote:Given only a stereo filter the FX better be something special since outside of the extra channels this isn't worth that much more than an Octa. I doubt the sequencer will be as flexible as the Octa so sound-wise this better be special
Yeah, seeing that they're marketing this as some sort of DJ add on, I would think at least two independent filters would be better (like an A&H Xone mixer). I don't see the big deal with Dave Smith filter anyways honestly, but thats just me. I'm still hopeful overall about this. I'm much more interested in what's under the hood as far as MIDI, editing, sequencing, etc... Pioneer gear has always been somewhat expensive so I'm not shocked at the prictag.

I'll withhold final judgement until I can get ahold of the manual.

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Post by johnnylonz » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:21 pm

Found this pic of the screen which seems to show a track being routed through the filter as an FX send. Also there are 2 buttons at the top right "Browse" and "Sampling/Edit" which leads me to believe it does in fact do live sampling. And the fact that there is a "Track type" button makes me think it might do MIDI sequencing as well.

Image

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:49 pm

This spec list says nothing about fx, I'd be surprised if you only had the filters to play with.
From CDM site

16-step sequencer with 256 patterns
7-inch full color touch screen. (That’s not unlike what Akai just did with MPC Touch – though an important detail will be to see how the touch screen feels; it’s tough when Apple are setting the bar.)
4×4 RGB pads, of course, which you can use with or without velocity. (Disco pads seem a necessary feature these days.
x0x-style step sequencing on the bottom, in addition to the MPC-style pad layout.
16-tracks of real-time playback.
A whole lot of sample storage: 8GB of flash memory are built in, with 2GB of samples from Loopmasters pre-loaded.
Amp envelope and time stretching. I’m curious to hear how good the time stretching algorithms sound.
Touch strip for controlling pitch bend and “various parameters”
Pro DJ Link for sync, as well as MIDI clock (more on that in a moment)
USB and MIDI DIN (in and out/thru) onboard.
8 audio outputs, 2 audio inputs, phone jack.

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Post by GovernorSilver » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:02 pm

AdamJay wrote:I hope this forces Elektron's hand in pushing out an Octatrack 2.

You mean a Bestä. Or a Hemnes. Or a Samplrtørp

Anything but "Octatrack 2".

There's no Monomachine 2, Machinedrum 2, etc. That's the Elektron way.
Last edited by GovernorSilver on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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