Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 Sampler

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DiscoDevil
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Post by DiscoDevil » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:58 am

h4ndcrafted wrote:There isn’t any kind of slew, it’s stepped. I think the digital insert filter has a glide ?

I still have mixed feelings about this box. They got the priorities right, good output sound with multi outs.

But at this point in the game , it doesn’t compare to the MPCs or Elektron even the Korg , save a much more professional sounding and made machine.

It only needs some basic to make it compete, I wonder why they gave up ?

I can’t believe any new ones will sell once the force is released.
Depending what you're trying to do, it destroys anything else ever made but it's not an MPC or an Elektron, it's its own thing. It does stuff that none of the other boxes do. I stopped getting caught up on what it doesn't do long ago and have been making music and performing with it in a way that is impossible with any other box.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:18 am

DiscoDevil wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:There isn’t any kind of slew, it’s stepped. I think the digital insert filter has a glide ?

I still have mixed feelings about this box. They got the priorities right, good output sound with multi outs.

But at this point in the game , it doesn’t compare to the MPCs or Elektron even the Korg , save a much more professional sounding and made machine.

It only needs some basic to make it compete, I wonder why they gave up ?

I can’t believe any new ones will sell once the force is released.
Depending what you're trying to do, it destroys anything else ever made but it's not an MPC or an Elektron, it's its own thing. It does stuff that none of the other boxes do. I stopped getting caught up on what it doesn't do long ago and have been making music and performing with it in a way that is impossible with any other box.
Im trying to keep it that way, but it’s gets frustrating sometimes. Just been listening to the set you posted for an hour, very nice.

I didn’t buy it so much for the live aspect , but as a drum machine. I’m going to spend some more quality time with it, but using push is as much fun and way faster. Maybe it’s just not for me at this point. I’m hanging on to it for now in hope of that update.
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Post by DiscoDevil » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:27 am

h4ndcrafted wrote:
Im trying to keep it that way, but it’s gets frustrating sometimes. Just been listening to the set you posted for an hour, very nice.

I didn’t buy it so much for the live aspect , but as a drum machine. I’m going to spend some more quality time with it, but using push is as much fun and way faster. Maybe it’s just not for me at this point. I’m hanging on to it for now in hope of that update.

Thank you!

Yeah, if you don't need a hardware drum machine with 8 outputs, an analog filter/overdrive section and a very performance oriented workflow, it's probably not the right choice. There are way better sequencers out there and arguably better drum machines but the SP-16 fits a niche no other machine can at this point so all of my complaints aside, it's a cold dead hands piece.

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Post by dubnspace » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:46 am

giving this box a serious look exactly for the purpose of putting together a live set.. anyone use either this or a deluge for this purpose? i'm kinda between these two but leaning heavily towards the SP-16

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Post by DiscoDevil » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:53 am

dubnspace wrote:giving this box a serious look exactly for the purpose of putting together a live set.. anyone use either this or a deluge for this purpose? i'm kinda between these two but leaning heavily towards the SP-16
Further up this page is a link to my latest live set using the SP-16. It's a mix of sequenced samples from my studio, midi sequencing external gear and playing external gear live with the pads on the SP-16. I'm just switching patterns and building the songs and transitions on the fly.

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Post by dubnspace » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:07 pm

DiscoDevil wrote:
dubnspace wrote:giving this box a serious look exactly for the purpose of putting together a live set.. anyone use either this or a deluge for this purpose? i'm kinda between these two but leaning heavily towards the SP-16
Further up this page is a link to my latest live set using the SP-16. It's a mix of sequenced samples from my studio, midi sequencing external gear and playing external gear live with the pads on the SP-16. I'm just switching patterns and building the songs and transitions on the fly.
yeah that's great. exactly what im looking to do.

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Post by dubnspace » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:47 pm

DiscoDevil wrote:
dubnspace wrote:giving this box a serious look exactly for the purpose of putting together a live set.. anyone use either this or a deluge for this purpose? i'm kinda between these two but leaning heavily towards the SP-16
Further up this page is a link to my latest live set using the SP-16. It's a mix of sequenced samples from my studio, midi sequencing external gear and playing external gear live with the pads on the SP-16. I'm just switching patterns and building the songs and transitions on the fly.
how do you find the midi sequencing of multiple pieces of gear with the one midi out, i assume you're using another box to split out midi for notes and clock to all the other devices, or chaining midi thrus?. is it tight with all that data coming out one output?

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Post by DiscoDevil » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:58 am

dubnspace wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
dubnspace wrote:giving this box a serious look exactly for the purpose of putting together a live set.. anyone use either this or a deluge for this purpose? i'm kinda between these two but leaning heavily towards the SP-16
Further up this page is a link to my latest live set using the SP-16. It's a mix of sequenced samples from my studio, midi sequencing external gear and playing external gear live with the pads on the SP-16. I'm just switching patterns and building the songs and transitions on the fly.
how do you find the midi sequencing of multiple pieces of gear with the one midi out, i assume you're using another box to split out midi for notes and clock to all the other devices, or chaining midi thrus?. is it tight with all that data coming out one output?
In the studio I use a midi patchbay. On stage I use a midi thru box and a Roland SBX-1 to split and convert the MIDI clock to SYNC24, respectively.

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Post by Panason » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:37 pm

dubnspace wrote: how do you find the midi sequencing of multiple pieces of gear
It's doable but I wouldn't count on this being a strong point of this machine. You have to use up multiple tracks if you want fully polyphonic MIDI sequencing and you get stuck notes if a note length extends past the end of a pattern... and you cannot name the MIDI tracks- even though there is a perfectly fine on-screen keyboard already implemented :doh:

I tried it with two MIDI synths and didn't have timing issues. i wouldn't bother sequencing drums over MIDI though.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:42 pm

Panason wrote:
dubnspace wrote: how do you find the midi sequencing of multiple pieces of gear
It's doable but I wouldn't count on this being a strong point of this machine. You have to use up multiple tracks if you want fully polyphonic MIDI sequencing and you get stuck notes if a note length extends past the end of a pattern... and you cannot name the MIDI tracks- even though there is a perfectly fine on-screen keyboard already implemented :doh:

Multiple tracks? Nah. You just set the root note and add the rest of the chord per step. I use mine for a lot of midi sequencing. It's not perfect but the MPC style pads + the 16 step X0X interface is the best of both worlds.

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Post by Panason » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:54 pm

Yeah I mean if you want notes to overlap without sharing the same start and end points. Not just for strummed chords but for also doing glides on some monosynths which require legato for glides.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:19 pm

Panason wrote:Yeah I mean if you want notes to overlap without sharing the same start and end points. Not just for strummed chords but for also doing glides on some monosynths which require legato for glides.
I see. Yeah, that would be nice.

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Post by calaveras » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 pm

It's an intriguing piece. But man, the name sounds like a Hyundai Sedan.

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Post by Jason Brock » Tue May 28, 2019 3:01 pm

I admit that I simply didn't even consider the SP-16 for a while because of the Rainbow Brite aesthetic and the letters "DJ" on the case. But now that I've given it a chance, it has won me over big time. It doesn't do everything, but it does exactly what I need with an easy to use interface.

- It has excellent pads with a very playable velocity curve, plus freely assignable Choke groups - these are necessary basics that I appreciate coming from an MPC.
- They grafted that onto an x0x step sequencer with parameter locks, probably inspired by Elektron sequencers (though not as full featured).
- Can also record live input, unquantized or quantized.
- Great sound quality, both with and without the Drive/DSI Filter.
- The large display is nice, so I don't have to rename all of my samples with shorter names in order to tell them apart (looking at you, Elektron).

There are a few strange things though, like why can't the touch strip affect a track as it plays back from the sequencer? It only works as you play the pads live. I also wish it could send modulation to the analog filter. It should be possible to mod it with a CV input for cutoff control...maybe some brave soul will crack theirs open one day and provide mod instructions.

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Post by Panason » Tue May 28, 2019 5:11 pm

If you start thinking what they could have done with this hardware and that screen.... that way lies madness!

I would throw money at someone who could get into the firmware and add all the things... I would erect a statue of them and sing their praises unto the end of days!!

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Post by nodog » Wed May 29, 2019 4:28 am

Jason Brock wrote:I admit that I simply didn't even consider the SP-16 for a while because of the Rainbow Brite aesthetic and the letters "DJ" on the case. But now that I've given it a chance, it has won me over big time. It doesn't do everything, but it does exactly what I need with an easy to use interface.
I'm feeling exactly the same having bought one last month. To add to the reasons to not consider the SP16: the price is very steep for what I'm using it for: just a simple loopsampler.

It does this very very well though. Couldn't imagine it being simpler and that's why I don't mind the lack of extra bells and whistles. Most of the time those extra functions just mess up the workflow. This sampler you can almost use without even looking in the manual.

Cut up a loop, make a pattern, parameter-lock some FX and there you go. It's just brilliant!

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Post by Jason Brock » Wed May 29, 2019 6:43 am

nodog wrote:I'm feeling exactly the same having bought one last month. To add to the reasons to not consider the SP16: the price is very steep for what I'm using it for: just a simple loopsampler.
At the retail price, it is expensive. But a few Ebay sellers are blowing them out for under $900 new at the moment, which I think is a good price for what you get.

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Post by nodog » Wed May 29, 2019 7:44 am

Jason Brock wrote:
At the retail price, it is expensive. But a few Ebay sellers are blowing them out for under $900 new at the moment, which I think is a good price for what you get.
Yes, I got it second hand for that reason. 900 new should be about the price it is worth. Here in Europe it's still 1400.

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Post by WilDFire » Wed May 29, 2019 11:47 am

These are going for almost firesale prices now and I'm thinking of jumping in for the DSI filter alone even though I love my octatrack.

B stock going for 799!

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Post by DiscoDevil » Wed May 29, 2019 2:23 pm

Jason Brock wrote:I also wish it could send modulation to the analog filter. It should be possible to mod it with a CV input for cutoff control...maybe some brave soul will crack theirs open one day and provide mod instructions.
I have two of them and opened one up. Each section of the DSI PCB is clearly labelled and there appears to be solder points for most functions so some kind of breakout box should be possible.

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Post by Panason » Wed May 29, 2019 4:38 pm

:sb:

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Post by dubnspace » Thu May 30, 2019 12:58 am

WilDFire wrote:These are going for almost firesale prices now and I'm thinking of jumping in for the DSI filter alone even though I love my octatrack.

B stock going for 799!
who has them in stock for that price?

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Post by Jason Brock » Thu May 30, 2019 9:03 am

dubnspace wrote:
WilDFire wrote:B stock going for 799!
who has them in stock for that price?
Nobody that I've seen. ProAudioStar is the only one with that price and they are out of stock. A few Ebay sellers have them for around $850.

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Post by WilDFire » Thu May 30, 2019 12:29 pm

Yep it was proaudiostar and went back a few hours later and it was gone.

I know I will get the RTFM response and I did watch several videos but just wanted to confirm that you CANNOT p-lock analog filter sweeps, correct?

Thanks!

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Post by DiscoDevil » Thu May 30, 2019 12:37 pm

WilDFire wrote:Yep it was proaudiostar and went back a few hours later and it was gone.

I know I will get the RTFM response and I did watch several videos but just wanted to confirm that you CANNOT p-lock analog filter sweeps, correct?

Thanks!
Correct. You'd want to resample the audio while you do it manually.

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