Crappy monitors to emulate earbuds/laptop speakers

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timoka
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Post by timoka » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:26 am

boboter wrote:Very interesting thread. What kind of (low-priced) amp would you pair with the Auratones?
i bought this trends audio stereo amp for my avantones:
http://trends-audio.de/home/8-trends-au ... arker.html

it's cheap in price, but definitely not in quality!

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timoka
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Post by timoka » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:33 am

dogoftears wrote:my experience is that only a high end monitoring system (converter, room acoustics, speaker) provide translation across a wide variety of playback systems. if i check on laptop speakers or mix cube type speakers, i end up making compromises that *only* benefit those crappier mediums, and hurt the mix for higher fidelity playback. plus the people who listen on earbuds and laptop speakers care the *least* about overall fidelity and phase relationships. for example i don't care if my crazy stereo processed insert effect that appears for 2 bars has phase cancellation on some small system like a laptop-- so the bass cuts out for a second-- big deal...

in general if you place a 400hz HPF on your mix you should still be able to discern all the parts and musical events taking place. this is a better translation test for imperfect rooms IMO. keep critical band intact, tame roots... these kind of mixes translate.
i agree, all these mixcubes etc are dangerous, if you do big changes to the mix on them then there is definitely something wrong with your mix, i use these tiny speakers in the beginning and the end of a mix and basically only use them to check, not to do changes on the mix. they help to focus on the midrange. if i hear a bad balance in these frequencies on the tiny speakers i go back on the bigger ones and my ears are focused on the problematic spectrum, this way i know faster what to do. but i would never ever mix purely on such tiny speakers.
and of course, one needs to know what to expect from such speakers, you won't hear bass for example, you just sense that the balance is right.
i know of people who use their laptop for this too, they used it maybe for 5-7 years and know how the midrange and lower mids should "feel".
sadly today this mixing "techniques" are way more important than they should be, the mix should translate well to tiny shitty systems and so they compromise alot. if you hear a modern edm track or something like that on a really good monitoring system it is just aweful...

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Post by Licudi » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:54 am

timoka wrote:if you hear a modern edm track or something like that on a really good monitoring system it is just aweful...
That first Delphic album is a big offender.

Scories
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Post by Scories » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:29 pm

Anyone tried mixing tracks with a Tivoli radio as a pseudo-Auratone?

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:26 am

1 If you can't mix on any speaker, in any room, in any circumstance, within reason, you can't mix.

2 Having truly great sound is a very useful tool.


Most music is listened on small speakers in noisy environments. So make sure your music is LOUD and make sure your bass and kick can be heard on small speakers. Both are easy to check on a truly great sound system. But if it actually sounds amazing can only be checked on a great sound system.


3 Paying more than €300 for 2 €10 speakers in a box :doh:
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Zube
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Post by Zube » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:32 am

Scories wrote:Anyone tried mixing tracks with a Tivoli radio as a pseudo-Auratone?
Curious about this too as my DIY LG TV speaker setup died, and I'm in need of something to use like an auratone.

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:50 am

Zube wrote:
Scories wrote:Anyone tried mixing tracks with a Tivoli radio as a pseudo-Auratone?
Curious about this too as my DIY LG TV speaker setup died, and I'm in need of something to use like an auratone.
There are lots of DIY options out there.
http://zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/fostex-p1000e-diy-kanspea-4-full-range-speaker-kit-pair/
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_en.htm?https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/femto5_en.htm

Please don't spend lots on speakers that aren't supposed to sound good. Have some common sense.
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Zube
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Post by Zube » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:57 am

milkshake wrote:
Zube wrote:
Scories wrote:Anyone tried mixing tracks with a Tivoli radio as a pseudo-Auratone?
Curious about this too as my DIY LG TV speaker setup died, and I'm in need of something to use like an auratone.
There are lots of DIY options out there.

Please don't spend lots on speakers that aren't supposed to sound good. Have some common sense.
Thanks for the links, but I just don't have the time to put together a DIY option.
I get what you're saying about spending money.
For me, I'm doing work that requires me to reference a variety of listening environments, all the time. Last year someone gave me their old DIY mono TV speaker that they rigged up, built to be an "actual" reference for their own TV work. And it served me well in the same role until the other day when it died.

They now use Auratones, and other Auratones have served me well in this role years ago. I start a project next week and it's no problem to buy one on rush shipping but if I can go to a pawn shop a block away and save $200+ and someone else has experience with using it in that type of role... common sense to me is worth a shot asking about it

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Post by sleepgardens » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:10 am

I'm using a JBL Go (mk1, can't speak for mk2) to check mixes for TV/Laptop speakers. It is working great. I know people who bought two to get an actual stereo field since the speaker is mono.

Scories
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Post by Scories » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:58 am

Thanks everybody for the follow-up and the suggestions. Auratone speakers are indeed pretty costy for what they do. Then I'd be curious to get any feedback from anyone who happens to have an old Tivoli Model 1 and an Auratone speaker.

Recently, I noticed on my Tivoli One a sound that was way too loud (something I haven't noticed on my regular monitors) so I could make the correction. Until then, I never thought about starting a rough mix with these small speakers. They seem to have a neutral sound in the mid-range.

I'm also considering the idea of getting an ARC 2.5 for monitor/room correction. A mastering engineer gave me this suggestion a few months ago.

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:35 am

Some things to consider.

What if you measured all speakers in the world and avarage their responce.
The frequency response will be pretty neutral.
So if you want your mix to sound good everywhere, use a neutral speaker.


What is the difference between a cheap neutral speaker and an expensive neutral speaker?
It's bass extention and max spl.
That makes it easy to simulate a cheap neutral speaker with an expensive neutral speaker. Just high-pass it.


There simply is no need for multiple speakers to audition your production. Just get the best you can afford and use some common sense.






On room/monitor correction.
If you have a non neutral speaker, no amount of eq/acoustic treatment can make it sound neutral.
If you do have a neutral speaker, with multiple subs, then it's still impossible to have a "flat" frequency response in the 100-500Hz range, in a typical listening environment. This is where eq can help.
But you do need to know what your doing.
Dips and peaks in the frequency response in a room are the result of the direct sound and reflections. But you always hear the direct sound. So if you eq, that will influence the direct sound. And you want that to be "flat".
So don't eq dips and be careful with the peaks. Low Q settings and low level changes.



Neutral speakers are "flat" on axis and of axis.
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Zube
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Post by Zube » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:16 am

I know how to mix, have real monitors, thank you.

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:22 am

Zube wrote:I know how to mix, have real monitors, thank you.
Good for you.

Any info you want to share that can be useful for others, a question maybe?
Shall I ... blablabla ... to thee.

The more you pay for something, the less likely you are to critise it.

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Zube
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Post by Zube » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:50 am

milkshake wrote:
Zube wrote:I know how to mix, have real monitors, thank you.
Good for you.

Any info you want to share that can be useful for others, a question maybe?
Nope, I'm wondering about small mono monitor that can help me reference my mixes quickly, not some dude insecure flexing on a forum

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:24 am

Zube wrote:
milkshake wrote:
Zube wrote:I know how to mix, have real monitors, thank you.
Good for you.

Any info you want to share that can be useful for others, a question maybe?
Nope, I'm wondering about small mono monitor that can help me reference my mixes quickly, not some dude insecure flexing on a forum
Relax.

I gave you 2 solutions.
One really cheap one, DIY.
One that costs nothing, common sense.

Feel free to spend lots more.
Shall I ... blablabla ... to thee.

The more you pay for something, the less likely you are to critise it.

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Zube
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Post by Zube » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:40 am

milkshake wrote:
Relax.

I gave you 2 solutions.
One really cheap one, DIY.
One that costs nothing, common sense.

Feel free to spend lots more.
Your "common sense" isn't common sense, in my case, or anyone else in this thread. The thread is about junky speakers and your posts are about flexing your ego. Both solutions aren't up to par, in my case. The amount of time spent on a DIY project for this actually costs me money, because the time away from work that is spent building, is time I could spend earning $. I don't mix 100% ITB and have constant deadlines and there's real money on on the line. So "slap a filter on it" and other typical Gearslutz-isms are a waste. Actually at this point in my career my time is more valuable composing vs soldering. Music isn't a weekend hobby for me. Trying to save every penny at all times sometimes hurts your career and finances than just buying once for life. You have no idea my workflow or situation - or anyone else's - yet feel the need to machoflex and insult. Peace

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:16 am

Zube wrote:
milkshake wrote:
Relax.

I gave you 2 solutions.
One really cheap one, DIY.
One that costs nothing, common sense.

Feel free to spend lots more.
Your "common sense" isn't common sense, in my case, or anyone else in this thread. The thread is about junky speakers and your posts are about flexing your ego. Both solutions aren't up to par, in my case. The amount of time spent on a DIY project for this actually costs me money, because the time away from work that is spent building, is time I could spend earning $. I don't mix 100% ITB and have constant deadlines and there's real money on on the line. So "slap a filter on it" and other typical Gearslutz-isms are a waste. Actually at this point in my career my time is more valuable composing vs soldering. Music isn't a weekend hobby for me. Trying to save every penny at all times sometimes hurts your career and finances than just buying once for life. You have no idea my workflow or situation - or anyone else's - yet feel the need to machoflex and insult. Peace
1 Where did I insult anyone in this thread?

2 Who's macho flexing again?

3 Try the pawn shop.

4 Please shoot holes in my logic. Iow where are my logical fallacies?
Shall I ... blablabla ... to thee.

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Zube
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Post by Zube » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:05 am

Useless to debate valueless people.
Last edited by Zube on Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

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milkshake
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Post by milkshake » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:42 am

:yay:

Image

Here you can see that the 5c and ns10m have a very simular frequency responce, with the ns10m having more bass extention.

These speakers have a very low probability of sounding good in double blind listening tests.
Shall I ... blablabla ... to thee.

The more you pay for something, the less likely you are to critise it.

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