Behringer MiniMoog Clone

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

Post Reply
User avatar
lilakmonoke
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:18 am
Location: berlin

Post by lilakmonoke » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:53 pm

:-) are you seriously discussing the quality of the switches? there is NOTHING wrong with the build quality, and its definitely above comparably priced units, household appliances included. frankly i think young jedi here doesnt have a clue.

anyways here is a soundtrack im working on that has a nice boog bassline. this synth is really good for minimal john carpenter stuff, you can almost touch the waveforms if you eq out some of the bass.

https://soundcloud.com/lilakmonoke/yamaneko

Funch

Post by Funch » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:45 am

As far as Jack wobble goes on the Behringer model D its very easy to see the Jack moving on the circuit board when a plug is inserted. Not a mystery at all as those 1/8" jacks are not secured to the top plate.

Just received a Sonic Smith converter+ and the 1/8" jacks are secured to the top plate with metal nuts just like the mother 32.
It's a sign of a quality build.

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2980
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Post by Shledge » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:42 am

I presume you rule out brands like metasonix then? They also don't bolt their jacks onto the panel... despite being considered one of the better manufacturers out there in terms of build quality.

And then there are plenty of modules with bolted jacks, but I wouldn't exactly consider them the best in build quality. I've had jack nuts go loose on a few modules just from normal use, for example. In fact, a lot of modules completely rely on the jacks being bolted just to keep the panel on!

You have some very weird ideas on what constitutes build quality - I can definitely tell that the Model D can take some knocks.

User avatar
naos
Common Wiggler
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:48 am
Location: france

Post by naos » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:49 am

how hard / dangerous woud it be to unsolder the D jacks to replace them with quality ones with metal nuts?
customizing is another way to look at that synth.

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2980
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Post by Shledge » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:03 am

They're through hole, so quite simple technically. The only issue is finding jacks with the same pin layout.

It really isn't an issue though - if one breaks off, then it's literally a 2 second solder job to get it back on. I doubt that would even happen though considering how well the PCB is bolted down. From my experience, it takes a lot to even make said jacks wobble.

Maffez
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 am
Location: Austria

Post by Maffez » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:32 am

Felt somehow compelled to post on jacks and switches & maybe it helps demystifying stuff. My personal stance is, you could criticize B for some things but certainly not build quality. Actually seen worse Eurorack modules / synths than the boog (switches falling out of SCI stuff etc., but that's another topic)

What wobbles slightly in the boog switches are the platic caps; switches themselves are metal, solid and very solidly soldered (I'm heavily boog modding and have taken out/put back in almost anything in there except for cpu and midi jacks)

The jacks might wobble a tad but that's on account of the plastic housing protecting the pins and lugs, which are, again, solidly soldered onto the pbc. In terms of lugs breaking off - don't think that's likely. Actually, thinking about it, this way the lugs and solder joints are better protected since any force/ tension will not directly be translated to the joints.

So, in sum I think some of us might gain an impression of this thing being somehow flimsy but in terms of the parts of mechanical elements that count stability-wise, I personally tend not to worry.

Image

Image
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Sounds From The Shed
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Sounds From The Shed » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:31 am

[video][/video]

I might be doing this wrong but I didn’t look at switches I just made music

Funch

Post by Funch » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:38 am

Maffez wrote:Felt somehow compelled to post on jacks and switches & maybe it helps demystifying stuff. My personal stance is, you could criticize B for some things but certainly not build quality. Actually seen worse Eurorack modules / synths than the boog (switches falling out of SCI stuff etc., but that's another topic)

What wobbles slightly in the boog switches are the platic caps; switches themselves are metal, solid and very solidly soldered (I'm heavily boog modding and have taken out/put back in almost anything in there except for cpu and midi jacks)

The jacks might wobble a tad but that's on account of the plastic housing protecting the pins and lugs, which are, again, solidly soldered onto the pbc. In terms of lugs breaking off - don't think that's likely. Actually, thinking about it, this way the lugs and solder joints are better protected since any force/ tension will not directly be translated to the joints.

So, in sum I think some of us might gain an impression of this thing being somehow flimsy but in terms of the parts of mechanical elements that count stability-wise, I personally tend not to worry.

Image

Image
I don't get wobble from the switches. They just have a cheap feel compared to other companies products I own. The feel has to do with resistance to turning and how solid the click feels.

I thought that the jacks wobbled because they do not use jacks that have steel nuts. So they pass through the non-secured panel to the panel.

Of course some other supposedly higher end gear use these type of cost saving non-secured pcb mounted plastic jacks. A roland 12me mixer that I used to gig with uses them and the plugs are now very loose when inserted. Its a rack mixer and mostly the plugs stayed in during transport, but not always.

So unfortunately its not just Behringer that cuts corners on build quality.
Last edited by Funch on Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2980
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Post by Shledge » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:05 am

The way the jacks are soldered on means they're VERY secure. They have massive solder pads just for the legs. They're not going to get loose.

As for loose connections, that's a symptom of... any jack after repeated use over time. You need to tighten the metal contact for the tip at that point. Nothing to do with how the jack is soldered on.

Funch

Post by Funch » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:51 am

Shledge wrote:The way the jacks are soldered on means they're VERY secure. They have massive solder pads just for the legs. They're not going to get loose.

As for loose connections, that's a symptom of... any jack after repeated use over time. You need to tighten the metal contact for the tip at that point. Nothing to do with how the jack is soldered on.
haven't had the repeated plug insertion problem on good quality Jacks. They all do need the occasional de-ox though.

Maffez
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 am
Location: Austria

Post by Maffez » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:52 pm

Sounds From The Shed wrote:[video][/video]

I might be doing this wrong but I didn’t look at switches I just made music
totally the way to go!

User avatar
lilakmonoke
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:18 am
Location: berlin

Post by lilakmonoke » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:31 pm

Sounds From The Shed wrote:[video][/video]

I might be doing this wrong but I didn’t look at switches I just made music
you are doing this wrong. the bassdrum needs to be double speed and then its new york house circa 1995. preferably a 909 BD but anything dry will do. just saying and i dont even know who nigel is! ;-)

listen to this thats the groove:


.

User avatar
naos
Common Wiggler
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:48 am
Location: france

Post by naos » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:02 pm

just putting this here. might not be a lack in built quality per se, just that it's VERY hard to remove the caps, and miniature rocker switches break easily. I didn't have the expertise of than fine austrian gentleman above… luckily I was able to repair it with loctite glue.
I think it would be very useful for everyone to know the model and be able to get some spare parts. maybe a smart chinese guy will start selling them on ebay someday?

Image
Last edited by naos on Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lilakmonoke
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:18 am
Location: berlin

Post by lilakmonoke » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:32 am

yes, you can break off pretty much any switch. maybe we should call this thread the behringer quality control thread? apparently its hard to believe that this is a quality product which is understandble after you have all been milked by the eurorackscene.

meanwhile, im about to get the behringer pro one. lets see what we can break on this one :-)

User avatar
naos
Common Wiggler
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:48 am
Location: france

Post by naos » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:47 am

lilakmonoke wrote:meanwhile, im about to get the behringer pro one. lets see what we can break on this one :-)
at least this one has the correct font and faceplate design, i would be less inclined to destroy it.

Sounds From The Shed
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Sounds From The Shed » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:10 am

lilakmonoke wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:[video][/video]

I might be doing this wrong but I didn’t look at switches I just made music
you are doing this wrong. the bassdrum needs to be double speed and then its new york house circa 1995. preferably a 909 BD but anything dry will do. just saying and i dont even know who nigel is! ;-)

listen to this thats the groove:


.
And there i was slowing things down for once. Most of my stuff is higher tempo :mrgreen:

Funch

Post by Funch » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:47 am

Sounds From The Shed wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:[video][/video]

I might be doing this wrong but I didn’t look at switches I just made music
you are doing this wrong. the bassdrum needs to be double speed and then its new york house circa 1995. preferably a 909 BD but anything dry will do. just saying and i dont even know who nigel is! ;-)

listen to this thats the groove:


.
And there i was slowing things down for once. Most of my stuff is higher tempo :mrgreen:
yea, you have to look at the switches and dials. :hihi:

Sounds From The Shed
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Sounds From The Shed » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:31 pm

Funch wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:
lilakmonoke wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:[video][/video]

I might be doing this wrong but I didn’t look at switches I just made music
you are doing this wrong. the bassdrum needs to be double speed and then its new york house circa 1995. preferably a 909 BD but anything dry will do. just saying and i dont even know who nigel is! ;-)

listen to this thats the groove:


.
And there i was slowing things down for once. Most of my stuff is higher tempo :mrgreen:
yea, you have to look at the switches and dials. :hihi:
Hah ha :hihi: In all seriousness though I thought the build quality was really good. I guess Beringher just come under more scrutiny as the are a divisive company in the synth world. I bought a Nuetron, Boog and Deepmind this week and couldn’t be happier with them. Been very productive with them and having owned a Model D reissue in the recent past the sound is spot on.

kinkujin
Common Wiggler
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:06 pm
Location: USA

Post by kinkujin » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:27 am

ToneBub wrote:
1986Bowler wrote:I ended up getting one. It's fine for what it is- no issues thus far, and fun to use.
As others have said, I am glad Uli is giving all a chance to experience in a way the synths of yesteryear to mess around with.
Yep.

I picked up a reissue Minimoog Model D soon after Moog began shipping, after reading glowing reviews from SOS and others. I'd wanted one since the 70s. And I love it. After owning it awhile I am filled with admiration for the design of the little beast. It's a delight to play, logically arranged, easy to dial-in great sounds, and with sufficient modulation possibilities to keep from getting bored. And the reissue improves on the original design, adding extra modulation and routing possibilities.

I was surprised when I heard Behringer was building a cheap reissue. I figured, it would probably be a pale imitation. Nope... they've apparently copied the circuitry exactly... or at least as exactly as you can using small modern surface mount components. While I'm not as filled with admiration for Behringer's effort in building a pure clone, I do admire that they've managed to make the Model D available to a wide public at an amazing price. I bought one a few weeks ago on sale for $250, and use it to supplement some Eurorack stuff.

Am I disappointed in my much-more-costly Moog Model D reissue? No. As I said, the Moog reissue is a delight to sit down with and play. The larger size and classic feel and response make it much more fun and productive than the Boog. Is it worth 10X the price?... well that's much harder to say. But I'm glad I've got it and love it enough that I have no plans to sell it.

I'm hopeful that the low-cost Behr Model D will introduce a whole new generation to the joys of analog modular synthesis, how it's done, and how to use it to make interesting music. It's *much* more fun and interesting to play and learn from a Model D than from computer plug-ins, or from keyboards with just presets. And despite an almost 50 year old design, it still really sounds great. If spreading the gospel of analog synthesis to a flock of younger musicians is the eventual outcome, then a cheap clone Model D will turn out to be a very good thing indeed.
I very much appreciate this perspective. One with nuance and experience. I tended to "knee jerk" my reaction to B's reissue, then i got one in a trade and let's just say, I'm suitably impressed. Very. I'll never have the original but to have a small piece of that mojo is a joy.

User avatar
coolshirtdotjpg
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California

Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:58 pm

I'm pretty shocked how well-built this thing is. Better than the 600 roland euro synth voice and nearly equivalent to the Mother 32, I thought. It takes care of so much that I do in euro, without having to reinvent the wheel with regard to patching. Here's my first go with it:
New video for my track
Opening The Portal

User avatar
macsimski
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Arnhem, The Netherlands

Post by macsimski » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:22 am

Today I tried to adjust the pitch bend level by changing a resistor on the bend output opamp, but i had tremendous problems finding the DAC in the Boog. It turns out that the DAC on the rev0 schematics are skipped and the MCU just outputs a pwm signal, made to an analog level by a smoothing cap and some resistors. I have jumpered the 1BC resistor next to pin 4 of IC13 (TL074) with a 10K one to lower the range of the bend. lowering that value works, but detunes the boog a lot, so I need more time to draw the schematic of that part and make a better adjustment method, but for now, the bend range is F-C-G starting on C. fine for now.
Can I take it apart? Great!

User avatar
lilakmonoke
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:18 am
Location: berlin

Post by lilakmonoke » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:16 am

pitch bend level? cant you adjust that in the midi settings? but heroic undertaking nonetheless, we need more folks that take this thing apart ...

User avatar
macsimski
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:55 am
Location: Arnhem, The Netherlands

Post by macsimski » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:46 pm

That depends on your firmware version. From what i understand, the older firmware had a sysex setting for this, but lacked bending after key release. now the setting is always maxed at ALMOST a octave (verrrry irritating out-of-tune)but bend works after release.
And for me this is not a big issue as i was buiding a midi-cv converter for the VCS-3 basically using the same technique.

I am thinking in adding an extra pot on the front to set the bend range. now i didi it in the feedback stage of the opamp, but i also could use an attenuator in the input stage.

I have to look into it again. today was a little chaotic.

But Finding out that there was no DAC in the Boog was a revelation and a shure sign that the schematics of Rev0 are way off in certain parts.
Can I take it apart? Great!

User avatar
lilakmonoke
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:18 am
Location: berlin

Post by lilakmonoke » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:19 pm

you could update to the latest firmware but messing with the circuits is a lot of fun for sure. i have a list of vcf mods that you could figure out. like 2 pole filter output and bass drop compensation. there is a thread on it with circuits ... its missing the solutions :-)

viewtopic.php?t=212760

User avatar
coolshirtdotjpg
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California

Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:27 pm

I'm still pretty in love with this thing. I decided to pick up a neutron as well. It's hard to justify not getting it, when I can just sell one or two modules to buy it. Here's what I've been doing with the Model D lately:
New video for my track
Opening The Portal

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”