New Waldorf 8 Voice Hybrid Poly

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Post by tehyar » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:27 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
tehyar wrote:For the sound, I noticed that the reverb - which seems to be on on many patches with high gain - tends to leave a really loud trailing sound after you let up the keys. It’s not a trailing off kind of thing, but a burst of reverb, like an extra key hit. I *think* I’ve been able to dial that back a bit by reducing the gain dramatically, so maybe this is just an artifact of too much gain and/or too much time on those presets?
This is probably the compressor. Turn it all the way down and see if that helps.
HA! That did it. It was all the way up. Thanks! :guinness:

edit: geebus it sounds so much better now. I wasn't even looking for a setting that wasn't loaded per-patch, though I get it now - it is right next to the volume button. I'd imagine that that knob could hurt sales for people demoing it live, that don't get why shits all washed out, mushy and awkward.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:21 pm

tehyar wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
tehyar wrote:For the sound, I noticed that the reverb - which seems to be on on many patches with high gain - tends to leave a really loud trailing sound after you let up the keys. It’s not a trailing off kind of thing, but a burst of reverb, like an extra key hit. I *think* I’ve been able to dial that back a bit by reducing the gain dramatically, so maybe this is just an artifact of too much gain and/or too much time on those presets?
This is probably the compressor. Turn it all the way down and see if that helps.
HA! That did it. It was all the way up. Thanks! :guinness:

edit: geebus it sounds so much better now. I wasn't even looking for a setting that wasn't loaded per-patch, though I get it now - it is right next to the volume button. I'd imagine that that knob could hurt sales for people demoing it live, that don't get why shits all washed out, mushy and awkward.
Yeah, I haven’t used it once so far. There seems to be this general trend of including compressors on the output stage these days, but the irony is that most synthesizer sounds are already pretty level and don’t have a ton of dynamic range unless you’re playing some super resonant sweep sound.

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:39 am

[video][/video]

I've primarily used the Quantum to add pads/atmospherics to tracks

Here's one along with the Polymath. MS-101 and Prophet Xl

The Quantums sound is ideal for this type of track :tu:

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:08 pm

[video][/video]

Alone...

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:02 pm

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Post by Divinital » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:31 pm

I'm in need of a workhorse synth but I don't like workstations...

Torn between the Quantum and the Access Virus TI2...

Any input now that it's been out for a while?

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Post by Sinamsis » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:48 pm

Divinital wrote:I'm in need of a workhorse synth but I don't like workstations...

Torn between the Quantum and the Access Virus TI2...

Any input now that it's been out for a while?
Off topic, but Prophet X should probably be thrown in there. Though work horse is somewhat of a confusing term here; if voice count plays any role here the TI2 has the others beat.

Divinital

Post by Divinital » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:44 pm

Sinamsis wrote:
Divinital wrote:I'm in need of a workhorse synth but I don't like workstations...

Torn between the Quantum and the Access Virus TI2...

Any input now that it's been out for a while?
Off topic, but Prophet X should probably be thrown in there. Though work horse is somewhat of a confusing term here; if voice count plays any role here the TI2 has the others beat.
Yes you’re right should’ve included Prophet X though for sole reason I don’t get along with the sound as much as the Quantum but they are similar enough.

I especially like CO5MA’s sounds on the Quantum. Hmm... if lot 4 of The River by Baloran was out I’d possibly be considering that although better sounding analog, not as flexible.

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:38 am

Divinital wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
Divinital wrote:I'm in need of a workhorse synth but I don't like workstations...

Torn between the Quantum and the Access Virus TI2...

Any input now that it's been out for a while?
Off topic, but Prophet X should probably be thrown in there. Though work horse is somewhat of a confusing term here; if voice count plays any role here the TI2 has the others beat.
Yes you’re right should’ve included Prophet X though for sole reason I don’t get along with the sound as much as the Quantum but they are similar enough.

I especially like CO5MA’s sounds on the Quantum. Hmm... if lot 4 of The River by Baloran was out I’d possibly be considering that although better sounding analog, not as flexible.

Make your own sounds, it's really easy on the Prophet X, I thought the presets on the Quantum(which I also Own) were some of the worst I've ever heard. Drenched in Fx to disguise how bad they are. A good sound can stand on it's own and does not need disguised by over use of FX. No idea who made them but they need to be fired ASAP!

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Post by nolongerhuman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:25 am

Divinital wrote:I'm in need of a workhorse synth but I don't like workstations...

Torn between the Quantum and the Access Virus TI2...

Any input now that it's been out for a while?
That's interesting that those were the two you came up with. The exact same happened to me. I am sitting next to a Quantum and a Ti2 and they are my two main synths, and just prior I had a Prophet X. So I've had quite a bit of hands on time with all three.

The Prophet X is the most "bread and butter" of the three. If you make music that requires real strings, pianos, etc. This would be the one to consider of your options. It can go well beyond those sounds but it's the only one of the three that will come close to that type of sound by nature of the 8dio libraries built in. If you don't use computers, have no access to Kontakt or something similar, this would likely be the obvious choice.

The Prophet X is also the least flexible. There is a basic user sample import, and now another user has stepped forward with a 3rd party import tool, but that aspect of the Prophet X has been a huge let down. Expansion packs from 8 dio have been few and far between and essentially are all a handful of samples of analog oscillators. Highly unimpressive. The FX onboard are good, but there is nothing that stands out as particularly stunning, the modulation options are the standard DSI set so very flexible, but you quickly realize the limitations of the interface and have to learn to work within it (no waveform display on a sample based synth was a mistake IMO) I've said it before in another forum, but if the collaboration had been with Spitfire I think it would be my favorite synth. As it is, I've lost a ton of respect for 8dio, and OS development on DSI's end is rather slow.

The Access Virus if you make any form of electronic music and/or have access to a Kontakt or similar is the most flexible of the bunch. 16 parts, ridiculous polyphony, and insane mod matrix, and literally tens of thousands of ready made patches online to dissect for new ideas. It's also half (or less) the price of the other two. The filters are flexible but of course, not analog, and to me both the Quantum and the Prophet filters are better (but vastly more limited due to the analog nature of the design) the OS is the most stable of the three. None of them are really flaky, but the Virus is exceptionally solid (your experience with the Ti software part may vary, I don't use it but to their credit, they are still updating it)

Downsides... the tech is comparatively old. No hardware update for essentially a decade. The interface compared to the other two is a pain. It's easy enough but it takes some time to get used to. No sampling and again if you need orchestral stuff, it's not here. Still, if you are in the market for pure flexibility the Virus is a no brainer. If it's an electronic sound, the Virus likely can do it.

The Quantum is ... as far as I have noticed, pretty much a sound design black hole. It sounds like it costs twice as much as it does, I'm not even sure why. Once you get familiar with it's interface it's a really unique creature. Pads, plucks, drones, granular, huge shifting stacked oscillators, wavetables. It's like Waldorf decided to do a "best of" of all of their synths. Build is solid, interface is a little less than streamlined, and changing frequently as the OS settles into it's final form (it's under constant development with new features being added constantly) The FX section and digital filter is wonderful. To me... it's hard to justify owning a ton of outboard synths unless they are really unique. If my computer can do it, I am happy to use VST's, but the Quantum has magic. It's inspiring. Since I bought it (right around 8 months ago) it's the one synth of the literally hundreds I've owned that I think is the most interesting.

Downsides of the Quantum, As mentioned, the presets are almost totally terrible. There are a few in there that are pretty great, but most are all over the place in terms of volume, quality, and they really do the synth a disservice. Waldorf is aware of this and Don Solaris is now onboard creating new patches for it. His work with the Blofeld was fantastic so hopefully that changes this up. Other downsides: loading in user presets with samples is needlessly tedious, sample organization in general is a chore at the moment, and the OS while largely totally functional still lacks the polished experience of the other two.

Of these three there is no wrong choice.

tl/dr:

If you need electronic/dance/trance sounds: Virus
If you need "real" instrument sounds: Prophet X
If you need all things in between those two categories: Quantum

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:34 am

Don Solaris was responsible for a large amount of the Quantums presets and if anything they will get worse.

As for the Dsi Xl, if you base your sound preferences on samples , wether from 8dio or spitfire you're going to be disappointed.

As I said make your own sounds because Solaris et all will just give you fx drenched shite!

The main thing to remember is that the amount you spend on a synth does not equate to the output. It’s about the effort you put in and how you use it.

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Post by realtrance » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:11 pm

Sounds From The Shed wrote:Don Solaris was responsible for a large amount of the Quantums presets and if anything they will get worse.

As for the Dsi Xl, if you base your sound preferences on samples , wether from 8dio or spitfire you're going to be disappointed.

As I said make your own sounds because Solaris et all will just give you fx drenched shite!

The main thing to remember is that the amount you spend on a synth does not equate to the output. It’s about the effort you put in and how you use it.
Huh?

Off the top of my head, the patch designers are Peter Jung (KAPro, who also does patches for Korg's best synth), Howard Scarr (who basically defined the Virus TI sound), Brian Transeau (BT), Reinhold Heil (who really knows the Quantum), Sascha D. (who does a lot of successful movie and video game music), Richard Devine (the Neal Stephenson of electronic music), Mike Huckaby (THE voice of Detroit techno), Rolf Wohrmann, the chief engineer at Waldorf, Wolfram Franke, the Father if not Grandfather of Waldorf, and even more I can't remember.

You mean to say that in fact, all these years, these have all been pseudonyms for Don Solaris???

If not, you're spreading dire misinformation.

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Post by mome rath » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:25 pm

realtrance wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote:Don Solaris was responsible for a large amount of the Quantums presets and if anything they will get worse.

As for the Dsi Xl, if you base your sound preferences on samples , wether from 8dio or spitfire you're going to be disappointed.

As I said make your own sounds because Solaris et all will just give you fx drenched shite!

The main thing to remember is that the amount you spend on a synth does not equate to the output. It’s about the effort you put in and how you use it.
Huh?

Off the top of my head, the patch designers are Peter Jung (KAPro, who also does patches for Korg's best synth), Howard Scarr (who basically defined the Virus TI sound), Brian Transeau (BT), Reinhold Heil (who really knows the Quantum), Sascha D. (who does a lot of successful movie and video game music), Richard Devine (the Neal Stephenson of electronic music), Mike Huckaby (THE voice of Detroit techno), Rolf Wohrmann, the chief engineer at Waldorf, Wolfram Franke, the Father if not Grandfather of Waldorf, and even more I can't remember.

You mean to say that in fact, all these years, these have all been pseudonyms for Don Solaris???

If not, you're spreading dire misinformation.
and to add to that, they're arranged in banks according to the author(s)
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Divinital

Post by Divinital » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:27 pm

Thanks for the inputs. The Prophet X is out. Don’t particularly need bread and butter nor real instruments as my DAW has adequately real time sampled instruments. This is one of the main reasons I don’t want a workstation, I don’t want a lot of sampled instruments to play nor things such as drums.

Again that’s why the Virus and Quantum stuck out.

I have to say I agree about the Quantum's sound. Something about it morphs through my speakers and turns into a huge 3D field of sound, very subtle and constantly moving. It fills the entire frequency spectrum (even more so since you can check that out on the instrument in real time)!

I’ve never owned a digital synth besides the Digitone and DSI Pro 2. I got along with the Digitone well but the bells and whistles of the Elektron boxes I did not need.

If I get the Quantum now I’ll probably grab the Kyra when it comes out. After being so into analog there’s something insanely REFRESHING about amazing digital synths like Quantum, like a lemonade on a hot day, or a piece of watery mint gum.

All in all, I think I’m going to buy a Quantum today. $3,650 is not shabby for a brand new unit.

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Post by nolongerhuman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:37 pm

Sounds From The Shed wrote:Don Solaris was responsible for a large amount of the Quantums presets and if anything they will get worse.

As for the Dsi Xl, if you base your sound preferences on samples , wether from 8dio or spitfire you're going to be disappointed.

As I said make your own sounds because Solaris et all will just give you fx drenched shite!

The main thing to remember is that the amount you spend on a synth does not equate to the output. It’s about the effort you put in and how you use it.
Don Solaris had nothing to do with the presets shipped with the Quantum. He only recently even started working on them, and they are being designed with the new OS in mind. So your statement is completely wrong.

As for the Prophet X, beyond the samples there is an exceedingly simplistic but wonderful sounding digital oscillator section with only basic waves. So, the samples inside the synth (and what you may or may not load of your own) are the definition of the synths sound. The sample manipulation and editing on the Prophet X is vastly inferior and almost surprisingly limited compared to the Quantum in every conceivable way except perhaps in ease of use owing in large part to the fact that there are so many less options on the Prophet X.

As for the "drenched in FX" concept, well, the vast, vast majority of the Prophet X presets lean heavily into the FX, and the vast, vast majority of the samples provided by 8dio are also lacquered in FX, so, technically you are hearing sounds in many cases far more dependent on FX than you seem to think.

Also somewhat irritatingly (to me), the content of the Prophet X inbuilt 8dio library is not exclusive to it. The exact same samples are used in multiple 8dio Kontakt libraries, many of which I already own. I was disheartened to realize that I had access to about 1/3 of the raw sound material already by virtue of the fact that I own a handful of 8dio Kontact sets.

It has literally zero to do with the cost of the synth, except as I pointed out that a Virus purchase would likely leave OP in a position to buy additional gear to make up for the lack of filters or orchestral sounds.

To be clear, the Prophet X is a seriously amazing synth. I love the thing, as I do almost everything Dave Smith has made. It was and is let down by the 8dio collaboration, and if sheer workhorse level synth and flexibility in sound design is the goal, I wouldn't look to it as my only synth.

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Post by nolongerhuman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:41 pm

Divinital wrote:
All in all, I think I’m going to buy a Quantum today. $3,650 is not shabby for a brand new unit.
Good call, that's roughly what I paid as well, and I've never regretted it. I also have the CO5MA sound packs and they are every bit as good as the previews suggest. Highly recommended.

Divinital

Post by Divinital » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:24 pm

I love CO5MA and the aesthetic he provides. The lovely snow rolling across the screen is exactly how the synth makes me feel, part of nature.

I am mainly a guitar player. I look to synths as wholesome contained units. The only synths I'm interested in these days are those pushing the limits of technology and also those pushing the limits of modern sonic characteristic (aka, the Quantum and OB-6/The River are basically the only synths I'm interested in anymore). I don't have time for a bunch of cheaper units that I use 10% potential of. I need something that I can get to know inside and out but never be completely done with; but at the same time risk will have to be taken to account!

The Quantum, when I look at it and hear it, reminds me of what I imagined the future to be like when I was a young kid in the 90's. Nothing else has remotely done this for me. The System-8 got close look wise and with its relatively novel implementation of plug-outs. But the Quantum scratches an itch I know I've had for so long but nothing ever could scratch.

From now on I make huge purchases sparingly and remove all trace of GAS as I make music.

The second big thing about the Quantum is the implementation of something I didn't know I wanted in an album: background continuity. I think to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall.. My favorite of all time. From beginning to end they're linked by something continuous, as if a movie (obviously so in case of The Wall). I want infinite timbres all connected by the same sonic characteristics. I don't want a bunch of random synths on a bunch of random songs sounding a bunch of random ways. I want one or two synths sounding every which way on all the things!!! Damn the Quantum legit gets me excited about music.

One last thing I read today was that Korg can do servicing in the US, I'd hate to have to ship this thing across seas. One of the reasons I've never purchased a Dominion 1.

Divinital

Post by Divinital » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:09 pm

Bueller ?

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Post by Panason » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:34 pm

Divinital wrote:Bueller ?
You mean Ferris? It's his day off.
Last edited by Panason on Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by tehyar » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:34 pm

I've finally been spending more time with this beast. I really like it. What a great sound design tool. So easy to learn and I've barely scratched the surface.

There is one thing about it that really baffles me, unless I'm missing something. Please let me be missing something. :hihi:

This thing has a stereo signal path. You can pan individual oscillators to great effect. The exception is the analog filters. This would normally be totally understandable, but for one thing: filterS. As in, two of them, running in parallel. You can vary the signal path a little bit, but the one thing you can't do is attach each to L/R - it's always mixed to mono into both filters. Instead they have an optional cheesy stereo effect at the end of the filter(s) after the output is again mixed to mono and optionally panned. I find this a little baffling. Create a stereo signal path, put two filters in parallel in the path, and not have them optionally work in stereo? :hmm: Hopefully it's something that can be addressed in an OS update and isn't completely hardwired.


edit:
Additionally, the digital filter has the opposite limitation: it's hardwired to stereo. If you pan it left or right, any oscillator (or signal) that's hard panned to the other side drop outs. I'd really love to see them add the ability to have 2 digital former instances in parallel.

Yes, I've recently become obsessed with stereo filter effects. It started around when I pre-ordered the Matriarch. :hihi:

Divinital

Post by Divinital » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:05 pm

Thanks for the input.

That's understandable with the resurgence of what seems to be stereo filters, but I think it might be more costly to do than imagined.

Analog Solutions Impulse Command, Moog Matriarch, UDO Super 6... etc... Those are all either very new or not out yet. The Quantum was released about a year ago. I do understand the desire though, thanks for pointing it out to me!

Ironically the Quantum and Matriarch would be my only two synths if I get the Quantum.

I might as well just bite the bullet. Life is short, I can get it at a huge discount, and I love the rich fullness of sound it produces, nothing short of epic.

Online it says the filters are 2/voice. Is it possible to pan specific voices left and right in order to achieve this effect, rather than a universal pan that cycles through the voices?

Odd because as you said the individual oscillators are indeed stereo!

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Post by tehyar » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:08 pm

Nope, you can’t. That was my point: they already spent the costly money to put two of them there, and you can’t do it.

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Post by Divinital » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:25 pm

tehyar wrote:Nope, you can’t. That was my point: they already spent the costly money to put two of them there, and you can’t do it.
Interesting, I do wonder if it can be added. I'm not much of a feature request guy, but perhaps I would be with a synth of this magnitude if I push its limits. I usually just accept what it is and use it to make some music!

Staggering though for $3,650.

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Post by slumberjack » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:41 am

Is the Quantum stable unlike Blofeld? Really loved that machine but sold it due to it's bugs.
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