Behringer Pro-One

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Chopper
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Post by Chopper » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:40 pm

Ebotronix wrote:
Chopper wrote:
Ebotronix wrote:the Pro 1 landed today
the first test was sobering
I tested the synth with my Doepfer A 198 Ribbon Controller.
the external gate/clock cv in doesn't work.
As the original, it requires a rather high voltage, slightly above what the doepfer ribbon provides... Do you have anything else you could test it with? Or can you amplify your gate signal somehow?
Ebotronix wrote: the Pro 1 ADSR (gate/clock cvin)doesn't receive a continious gate.
Same as above...
Ebotronix wrote: and the sequencer does nothing with OSC CV in.
That's normal, in the sense that having something in the OSC IN bypasses it. Another limitation of the original, if my memory serves me well... If anybody could correct me if I am wrong, as it was decades ago...
I also tested it with the DoepferRibbon Controller (first test) the gate voltage is 8,8V.

[video][/video]
right... definitely weird...

ArtFluids
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Post by ArtFluids » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:43 pm

Sushi2k wrote:@Ebotronix
my one behaves exactly the same. Let's hope it's fixable by a firmware update.
Wouldn't it be a bad thing if the gate input can be affected by firmware revisions? That would mean it's not a true analog gate, right?

Sushi2k
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Post by Sushi2k » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:22 am

hm, right
ArtFluids wrote:
Sushi2k wrote:@Ebotronix
my one behaves exactly the same. Let's hope it's fixable by a firmware update.
Wouldn't it be a bad thing if the gate input can be affected by firmware revisions? That would mean it's not a true analog gate, right?

Ebotronix
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Post by Ebotronix » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:27 am

Starspawn wrote:Well if theyve cloned the 3310, it should be as simple as normaling the trig input to the gate input, which they probably already did for the keyboard? (Edit: Meant midi ofc)
Retriggering during a gate is actually a nice option to have, but suspect they tried to simplify.
the gate input behaves like a gate to trigger converter.
the incomming gate is not accepted.

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Post by ArtFluids » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:56 am

Sushi2k wrote:hm, right
ArtFluids wrote:
Sushi2k wrote:@Ebotronix
my one behaves exactly the same. Let's hope it's fixable by a firmware update.
Wouldn't it be a bad thing if the gate input can be affected by firmware revisions? That would mean it's not a true analog gate, right?
Well, either way, isn't the rumor that the envelopes are digital?
Is it possible to have a digital envelope that responds to a gate as fast as an analog one?

Let's say the envelopes are digital, and they are, from what we understand. If that's true then the gate input will have to be digitally scanned to see if the gate is open or closed. It then follows that the gate input is connected to the microcontroller or CPU that handles the envelopes. Therefore the gate input behavior is subject to firmware revisions.

Not ideal, but how else are you going to have digital envelopes? If the envelopes are digital then the gate input is digitally monitored, there's no way around that.

It's still got the potential to be much much faster than MIDI. MIDI sends whole packets of data that are scanned before the synthesizer does anything. A digitally monitored gate input can be as fast as a momentary switch can be in a digital circuit. It doesn't even need a whole ADC, all it needs is some sort of circuit that goes high when the gate is at a threshold and goes low when the gate is below it.

I'd like to see more videos of people doing CV/Gate sequencing and see where issues arise.
I'd like to see innerclock litmus tests.

grantb5
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Post by grantb5 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:19 am

FWIW, some timing info about the original Pro-One:

http://musictechnologiesgroup.com/blog/?p=1

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Starspawn
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Post by Starspawn » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:17 pm

Ebotronix wrote: the gate input behaves like a gate to trigger converter.
the incomming gate is not accepted.
Yup, so seems like they just added the trigger part as hardware and didnt normal it to the gate input on the 3310. Would like to open up and see if it really is a 3310 though. Dont think it would work to just remove the capacitor that shortens the gate either as that input would expect a trigger.

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Post by grantb5 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:08 pm

Starspawn wrote: Would like to open up
Yes. Open it up! Pics!!

DMR
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Post by DMR » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:18 pm

Based on these comments on Gearslutz, which is in reference to the OB-Xa derived synth, I wouldn't be surprised if the envelope is digital. Cool Audio (Behringer) doesn't make a 3310 IC.

Image

grantb5
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Post by grantb5 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:41 pm

Anyone know how they've done the LFO?

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Post by Neo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:06 pm

ArtFluids wrote:If the envelopes are digital then the gate input is digitally monitored, there's no way around that.
Depends what you mean by digitally monitored. The gate signal might go to a hardware interrupt, which could give a response of less than a microsecond. And even if it's being polled, most modern microcontrollers run at 10's or 100's of MHz. I think digital envelopes are a smart move.. keeps the price down and if modelled well it won't make any difference to the sound.

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anselmi
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Post by anselmi » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:20 pm

DMR wrote:Based on these comments on Gearslutz, which is in reference to the OB-Xa derived synth, I wouldn't be surprised if the envelope is digital. Cool Audio (Behringer) doesn't make a 3310 IC.

Image

I wonder why we don´t have a Uli user here...isn´t one of his clones available? or we are not worthy?

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Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:40 pm

anselmi wrote:I wonder why we don´t have a Uli user here...isn´t one of his clones available? or we are not worthy?
because theres not enough drama here
TOO FAR GONE

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sutekina bipu-on
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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:43 pm

If they did a good job of recreating it, it's no different than Roland's ACB modeling, which definitely provides amazing sonic results.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:50 pm

anselmi wrote: I wonder why we don´t have a Uli user here...isn´t one of his clones available? or we are not worthy?
Because it would be twice the work for no added benefit.

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Post by pre55ure » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:13 pm

anselmi wrote: I wonder why we don´t have a Uli user here...isn´t one of his clones available? or we are not worthy?
Honestly happier to not have him here.

As far as I am concerned, anyone who attempts to sue people for posting content you don't like/agree with should just never be allowed on any forum ever again.

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anselmi
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Post by anselmi » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:44 pm

pre55ure wrote:
anselmi wrote: I wonder why we don´t have a Uli user here...isn´t one of his clones available? or we are not worthy?
As far as I am concerned, anyone who attempts to sue people for posting content you don't like/agree with should just never be allowed on any forum ever again.
agree...that was a very bad one

3phase
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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:57 pm

Starspawn wrote:
Ebotronix wrote: the gate input behaves like a gate to trigger converter.
the incomming gate is not accepted.
Yup, so seems like they just added the trigger part as hardware and didnt normal it to the gate input on the 3310. Would like to open up and see if it really is a 3310 though. Dont think it would work to just remove the capacitor that shortens the gate either as that input would expect a trigger.

there is no 3310 in a bro one

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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:48 pm

DMR wrote:Based on these comments on Gearslutz, which is in reference to the OB-Xa derived synth, I wouldn't be surprised if the envelope is digital. Cool Audio (Behringer) doesn't make a 3310 IC.

Image
such a bullshit.. the envelope on the bro one sounds shit.. slugisch.. inconsistent on parameter changes, stiff as a digital envelop. Its a total miss conception that the filter adds more to the character of a synth than the envelopes. I think its close to fraud to sell an all analog clone with digital envelopes.

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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:44 pm

but the big question that emerges from this.. is it worth to mod the box with 3310 chips? where to get the trigger/gate signals from? a trigger generator on the bro ones gate output? yes.. that could work..

But.. the org pro one claims to have a whooping 144 us on the trigger input.. the Bro one will be even with 3310 mod slugish as sub sequencer..

however the playability and fun on the envelopes would return..

but, since the pro lne is not ridicously overpriced yet.., snybody that sells a broken pro one here?

3phase
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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:49 pm

in general i beliefe that analog envelopes are extremly important on a sequencer synth like the pro one.. thats what keeps otherwise simple sequences alive.

But... digital envelopes of the bro one could become better by software updates.. how likely is that to happen with a company like behringer?
cosmetical style updates that aim towards perfection.. Not exactly their style.
Last edited by 3phase on Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by thispoison » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:10 pm

3phase wrote:in heneral i belife that analog envelopes are extremly important on a sequencer synth like the pro one.. thats what kerps otherwise dimple sequences alive.

But... digital envelopes of the bro one could become better by software updates.. how likely is that to happen with a company like behringer?
cosmetical style updates that aim towards perfection.. Not exactly their style.
Perfect analysis at all levels. Thank you so much for your insight - I've ordered one.
Where have I seen you before?
Same place you saw me, I expect.
I've got a good face for memories.

https://soundcloud.com/thispoison-1

3phase
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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:14 pm

thispoison wrote:
3phase wrote:in heneral i belife that analog envelopes are extremly important on a sequencer synth like the pro one.. thats what kerps otherwise dimple sequences alive.

But... digital envelopes of the bro one could become better by software updates.. how likely is that to happen with a company like behringer?
cosmetical style updates that aim towards perfection.. Not exactly their style.
Perfect analysis at all levels. Thank you so much for your insight - I've ordered one.
i guess i return it on monday, but it gets a chance to proove itself in the studio.. but its really a shame to cripple the king synth for 32th sequencing with slugish reacting knobs on digital envelopes.. I would need to mod it to keep it.

nicorette
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Post by nicorette » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:32 pm

3phase - the Behringer Pro One is fucking brilliant, and anyone that slags it off is a weird equipment snob that knows nothing.. I would have sent it back if it was no good but it is the real deal and sounds great. Might be the odd quirk, but so what.

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Post by nicorette » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:34 pm

Start with the Monologue XD to slag analog off.. it is shabba.

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