Behringer Pro-One

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MindMachine
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Post by MindMachine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:20 pm

nicorette wrote:3phase - the Behringer Pro One is fucking brilliant, and anyone that slags it off is a weird equipment snob that knows nothing
And so it was that the voice of all analog clones (well mostly cloned and mostly analog anyway) spoketh. Thy word be our will. :hail:
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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:16 pm

nicorette wrote:3phase - the Behringer Pro One is fucking brilliant, and anyone that slags it off is a weird equipment snob that knows nothing.. I would have sent it back if it was no good but it is the real deal and sounds great. Might be the odd quirk, but so what.
the envelopes are fucking crap.. what a waste for the 2 env out jacks. Sudden parameter jump from too short to too long..i miss the sexy snappyness and and impactfull short note sequencing of the pro one..and the sluggish reaction on the knob moves dont makes that better..

it should come with good envelopes, that remind to the original..and are controlable like analog envelopes..with direct response to the users manipulations..

So how to mod this? we are here in a forum that deals with such issues with the soldering iron..

And interesting question..what other behringer synths suffer from an all analog signal path, but digital envelopes? I just would like to know..but there is no info to be found.. according to behringers web page only the korg ms 20 clone mentions explicitly analog envelopes.. does that suggest that all others have digital ones? Or is that undecided and has to be checked by the user? an experiment wether they get it or not?

However.. before i get the soldering iron out i give that synth a chance to prove that its worth my attention. But its shit that behringer did it again...lures you in with low low prices..and than gets caught on some nasty hidden penny cutting that makes the hot deal not so hot anymore.. that is so behringer that its almost funny again..
Last edited by 3phase on Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:23 pm

But..if this crappy envelope performance is realy because its a digital envelope

1) could it be faster on the knob and an all more pleasing experience thru an update?

2) could you modulate parameters via midi?

3) have looping envelopes?

There are ways to make digi envelopes likeable..but first you must admit that they are there before anybody can hope for software solutions that dont suck.

Could one of the behringer fanboys please ask your semigod about that? your tribe leader.. What does the chief say about that?.
Last edited by 3phase on Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by 3phase » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:42 am

grantb5 wrote:Anyone know how they've done the LFO?
another 3340 chip

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Post by grantb5 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:36 am

Photos of the business side of the PCB please. I want to see the guts!

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Post by rockmanrock » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:40 am

The knobs do respond slightly strangely, but I've never used the original. Maybe it's real analogue envelopes but with a weird pot taper?

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Post by nectarios » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:54 am

With the slight envelope difference that could be anything from calibration, to different settings to the actual 3310 VS the digital Behringer emulation that sounds no worse than my digital envelopes in eurorack/A6 from what I've herd on this test anyway...the Behringer sounds bang on with the original in this test.

[video][/video]

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Post by Chopper » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:31 am

3phase wrote:
nicorette wrote:3phase - the Behringer Pro One is fucking brilliant, and anyone that slags it off is a weird equipment snob that knows nothing.. I would have sent it back if it was no good but it is the real deal and sounds great. Might be the odd quirk, but so what.
the envelopes are fucking crap.. what a waste for the 2 env out jacks. Sudden parameter jump from too short to too long..i miss the sexy snappyness and and impactfull short note sequencing of the pro one..and the sluggish reaction on the knob moves dont makes that better..

it should come with good envelopes, that remind to the original..and are controlable like analog envelopes..with direct response to the users manipulations..

So how to mod this? we are here in a forum that deals with such issues with the soldering iron..

And interesting question..what other behringer synths suffer from an all analog signal path, but digital envelopes? I just would like to know..but there is no info to be found.. according to behringers web page only the korg ms 20 clone mentions explicitly analog envelopes.. does that suggest that all others have digital ones? Or is that undecided and has to be checked by the user? an experiment wether they get it or not?

However.. before i get the soldering iron out i give that synth a chance to prove that its worth my attention. But its shit that behringer did it again...lures you in with low low prices..and than gets caught on some nasty hidden penny cutting that makes the hot deal not so hot anymore.. that is so behringer that its almost funny again..
Interestingly, I wonder about the Ms101 (sh101 clone) env...
The whole synth is brilliant, and yes, the filter is slightly different, and i cannot have the seq and lfo in sync as on the original, which negate a few of my favourite sounds, but the env being more on the linear side of thing rather than the more exponential sh101 makes programming drum sounds (a favourite of mine on the sh101) very difficult. Not as snappy obviously...

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Post by dubnspace » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:39 am

3phase wrote:
the envelopes are fucking crap.. what a waste for the 2 env out jacks. Sudden parameter jump from too short to too long..i miss the sexy snappyness and and impactfull short note sequencing of the pro one..and the sluggish reaction on the knob moves dont makes that better..

it should come with good envelopes, that remind to the original..and are controlable like analog envelopes..with direct response to the users manipulations..

.
idk, my Pro One envelopes behave exactly this way.. very subtle changes on sustain make a big difference between too short and too long, have to turn attack basically up to 10 to have much effect, and clicky as hell at 0 haven't played the Bro 1 yet but have one on order.

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Post by dubnspace » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:42 am

nectarios wrote:With the slight envelope difference that could be anything from calibration, to different settings to the actual 3310 VS the digital Behringer emulation that sounds no worse than my digital envelopes in eurorack/A6 from what I've herd on this test anyway...the Behringer sounds bang on with the original in this test.

[video][/video]
yeah this video shows this is the closest clone they've done yet, sounds pretty identical. looking forward to mine and doing my own comparisons.

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Post by 3phase » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:03 pm

dubnspace wrote:
idk, my Pro One envelopes behave exactly this way.. very subtle changes on sustain make a big difference between too short and too long, have to turn attack basically up to 10 to have much effect, and clicky as hell at 0 haven't played the Bro 1 yet but have one on order.
there is a certain jumpiness in the pro one envelops too.. but not as indifferent as in the bro one.. you have a wider spot to adjust short attack and decay times, and its very precise reacting there, despite that there too a lot is happening in that short range.
On the behringer there is not a lot happening in this "sweet spot" unprecise and mushy response in the most important part of the attack and decay range.. everything beyond that is slow attack and release.
When model a 3310 digitally its a stupid idea to model a rather small sweetspot too, since you need some latency to avoid zippery noises. So that small sweetspot becomes uncontrolable, opposite to a not lagging analog system where any most tiny move directly translates to a change in the envelope response. Which is especially on fast sequence sound a performance parameter, how you alter slightly the short attack and decay properties of the filter and vca envelope.

It would have been better to dont try to mimic the 3310 envelope in this regard but give a more defined and precise short att/dec portion on the knob travel. There is no value in trying to hide the digital envelops by recreating flaws in an inferior fascion. especially when the other parts of the synth do a good analog job. Its possible to have good responding digital envelopes.

And in case the envelops are analog, they are the worst out there.. the cheapes doepfer envelope kicks their but, and the env out jacks of the bro one should haven been envelope in jacks..

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Post by 3phase » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:08 pm

dubnspace wrote:
idk, my Pro One envelopes behave exactly this way.. very subtle changes on sustain make a big difference between too short and too long, have to turn attack basically up to 10 to have much effect, and clicky as hell at 0 haven't played the Bro 1 yet but have one on order.
there is a certain jumpiness in the pro one envelops too.. but not as indifferent as in the bro one.. you have a wider spot to adjust short attack and decay times, and its very precise reacting there, despite that there too a lot is happening in that short range.
On the behringer there is not a lot happening in this "sweet spot" unprecise and mushy response in the most important part of the attack and decay range.. everything beyond that is slow attack and release.
When model a 3310 digitally its a stupid idea to model a rather small sweetspot too, since you need some latency to avoid zippery noises. So that small sweetspot becomes uncontrolable, opposite to a not lagging analog system where any most tiny move directly translates to a change in the envelope response. Which is especially on fast sequence sound a performance parameter, how you alter slightly the short attack and decay properties of the filter and vca envelope.

It would have been better to dont try to mimic the 3310 envelope in this regard but give a more defined and precise short att/dec portion on the knob travel. There is no value in trying to hide the digital envelops by recreating flaws in an inferior fascion. especially when the other parts of the synth do a good analog job. Its possible to have good responding digital envelopes.

And in case the envelops are analog, they are the worst out there.. the cheapes doepfer envelope kicks their but, and the env out jacks of the bro one should haven been envelope in jacks..

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Post by nicorette » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:45 pm

MindMachine - thankyou. Only look out for posts from me. I will guide you.
3phase - sorry but you are not well. You are looking for excuses. I have done this too many times. PM MindMachine please, he knows..

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Post by werock » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:29 pm

rockmanrock wrote:The knobs do respond slightly strangely, but I've never used the original. Maybe it's real analogue envelopes but with a weird pot taper?
Yes, the original Pro One had strange acting envelope controls due to them using the incorrect pot taper. Not sure if Behringer just replicated the original pot values or 'fixed' them by using the correct pot tapers.

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Post by miles_macquarrie » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:06 pm

3phase wrote:\
And interesting question..what other behringer synths suffer from an all analog signal path, but digital envelopes? I just would like to know..but there is no info to be found.. according to behringers web page only the korg ms 20 clone mentions explicitly analog envelopes.. does that suggest that all others have digital ones? Or is that undecided and has to be checked by the user? an experiment wether they get it or not?
This is very interesting. I have a Bro One on the the way, and I can't wait to receive it as I've always wanted a pro 1.

I would have to assume that the Model D Envelopes are digital, as they did a firmware update to give a triggering option to get it to re trigger with most sequencers. To me the Model D Sequencers sound just like a Minimoog, super snappy and responsive. The general consensus is that the sound is spot on with the Model D as a clone, so I'm not sure that being digital is the culprit here.

If they messed the envelope up, hopefully they fix it soon.
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Post by 3phase » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:26 pm

nicorette wrote:MindMachine - thankyou. Only look out for posts from me. I will guide you.
3phase - sorry but you are not well. You are looking for excuses. I have done this too many times. PM MindMachine please, he knows..
excuses for the shitty attack and decay response on the bro one? but you seem to suffer from serious fanboyism.. relax.. its just behringer.. the biggest lowend gear producer on the globe.. and its just a look alike synth for a low price. a classical behringer with some flaws. Just would be good to name the flaws in all this hype hype.. its not the second coming of jesus.. just behringer crashing into another market of the musik electronic world, and you need to be aware of that everything comes with a price. even a low low price.

In any case behringer should update their webpage.. why do they only mention analog envelopes on a single of their synths and use for all the classic "all analog signal path" phrase, that usually indicates a full digital control topology? To leave this open for design changes? to test the audience? to hide something? to dont interfear with the full analoge hype?

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Post by 3hands » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:57 pm

3phase - yes they are the bigger low end gear builder on the planet. And they are making the high end originals look just as cheap. I’ve never been a Behringer fan, however they are killing it. All of us with our original machines have every right to backup the enormous prices we’ve paid for our 909s, our pro 1s, Jupiter’s etc. However most of us don’t because we know at the end of the day, we’ve paid way too much money for a box of chips, boards and wires but it doesn’t matter. If someone can satiate my appetite for a 2500 dollar mono synth for 400 bucks, I’m all in. Claiming that it’s “shit” because of the envelopes is reaching. I’ve been collecting synths since 1984 and never once have I thought a synth was crap because it’s envelopes were digital. 2 of my favourite machines, the Matrix 6 and the Ensoniq ESQ1 use digital EGs and it hasn’t put me off them. The pro one always had a slightly soft attack (compared to my old Roland stuff) and you make it work. It means the Pro One has very full bass sounds as opposed to ridiculous snappy basslines.


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Post by noisefor » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:22 pm

3phase wrote:
nicorette wrote:MindMachine - thankyou. Only look out for posts from me. I will guide you.
3phase - sorry but you are not well. You are looking for excuses. I have done this too many times. PM MindMachine please, he knows..
excuses for the shitty attack and decay response on the bro one? but you seem to suffer from serious fanboyism.. relax.. its just behringer.. the biggest lowend gear producer on the globe.. and its just a look alike synth for a low price. a classical behringer with some flaws. Just would be good to name the flaws in all this hype hype.. its not the second coming of jesus.. just behringer crashing into another market of the musik electronic world, and you need to be aware of that everything comes with a price. even a low low price.

In any case behringer should update their webpage.. why do they only mention analog envelopes on a single of their synths and use for all the classic "all analog signal path" phrase, that usually indicates a full digital control topology? To leave this open for design changes? to test the audience? to hide something? to dont interfear with the full analoge hype?
i love learning from one another here, how animated we get about the nuances of equipment quality, sound, timbral mystique, etc. BUT who really cares what behringer intended, or how they may or may not have been pulling the alleged wool over the synth snobs eyes? the brosephus uno is an amazing and fun $350 electronic musical instrument! where else are you gonna find a musical instrument with such versatility and deference to the garden of synth for so little money? if you don't like then i suggest trying other gear... to make music.

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Post by WaveRider » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:44 am

I agree that envelopes are more part of the character of a synth than usually credited... Some really are alive in a special way. Easy to hear with a modular.

In the above youtube demo, at the end the original sounds better 100% of the time... even if it appears close in the comparison just before. (I am not saying it is because of the envelopes)

how much more costly would it be with analog envelopes anyway?

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Post by Maffez » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:46 pm

miles_macquarrie wrote: I would have to assume that the Model D Envelopes are digital, as they did a firmware update to give a triggering option to get it to re trigger with most sequencers.
boog envelopes are analogue, so is the one in the ms-1, and those in the rd8

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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:10 am

The bro one kicks ass. It sounds nasty and dirty and i love it. I tried to make a video of it getting nasty with some modules and a drum machine, but it's only got phone audio cause my dr-05 ran out of battery partway thru recording the direct audio.

No issues triggering it with cv, you just have to flip the "normal / repeat ext" switch and it happily picked up cv/gate from any of my sequencers.

Sure the envelopes aren't the snappiest or most responsive on earth but i'd have to a/b it next to a friend's actual Pro One before declaring them garbage (they're not that bad i think anyway).

My biggest complaint is for sure that the external audio input is basically useless for eurorack unless you wanna completely drown out the built in oscs. If you plan on using the ext input you are gonna NEED an attenuator or preamp. I hit a mic preamp with the euro signal and that made it much more usable but i'm still a little surprised the ext input is as sensitive as it is. I guess they tested it with an iPad or laptop.

My next biggest complaint is probably i had it pick up some ground noise when i plugged a cable into the out/thru midi port on back.

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Post by DeanG » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:31 pm

Does anyone know if the audio input will trigger the envelopes with this version? My old pro one did and I used it a lot.
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Post by syzygywell » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:14 am

Wait! What, you're in the USA and you got yours already!!?? I'm on the preorder list for Sweetwater and nothing has come up yet.
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Post by computer controlled » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:54 am

syzygywell wrote:Wait! What, you're in the USA and you got yours already!!?? I'm on the preorder list for Sweetwater and nothing has come up yet.
You're much better off buying from Thomann. Cheaper and you'll get it faster.
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Post by CoreInside » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:32 am

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKWm0482WO0[/video]

this demo by synthetic machines proves a lot. you don't hear him complaining about digital envelopes on forums. he just posts his great music and proves all the trolls wrong.

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