Polyend Seq

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

User avatar
pzoot
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:48 pm

Polyend Seq

Post by pzoot » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:51 am

(Decided not to perpetuate the posting of questions about the Seq in the Eurorack forum's Poly + Seq thread)

What is the best way to "Sync the Seq" in this scenario?

I have a korg microkey that I'd want to use with the Seq -- without any additional equipment, that means I'd take up the USB port on the Seq for that.

I use an ERM Multiclock. Ideally, I'd like to keep that as the master so, from a workflow perspective, it's easy to switch between DAW and manual clock. I assume that will take up the MIDI input on the Seq

Then I have a Poly in my Eurorack that I'd want to use the Seq to control. I think the only port left on the Seq though would be a MIDI DIN output. Can that port handle the bandwidth if there are 8 tracks going with velocity and modulation?

Using the USB port w/ the Poly is possible. But, then I'd need the MIDI in port to sync to Multiclock. And then I don't think I can use the korg keyboard (no more in ports of any kind?)

I guess I could use the Poly as the master clock ... but that's not ideal for my setup a lot of the time.

Any advice?

Thanks!

Link to other thread in Euro forum for those looking for history: viewtopic.php?t=183102&highlight=

User avatar
nangu
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1710
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:07 am
Location: near Chicago

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by nangu » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:58 pm

pzoot wrote:Then I have a Poly in my Eurorack that I'd want to use the Seq to control. I think the only port left on the Seq though would be a MIDI DIN output. Can that port handle the bandwidth if there are 8 tracks going with velocity and modulation?
Sure. MIDI bandwidth issues happen with mad cranking of knobs and pitchbend - then you end up with multiple dense streams of controller information.

The kind of per-step automation that Seq creates will be no problem. Go for it!

User avatar
pzoot
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:48 pm

Post by pzoot » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:01 pm

Thanks!! It’s nice that the Poly has every (simultaneous) option built in

User avatar
euxine
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:47 am
Contact:

Post by euxine » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:30 pm

Anyone tried seq with Ableton Link, either as a matter or slave? Is it possible?

simonpalf
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:48 pm
Location: London

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by simonpalf » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:05 am

Hi pzoot!

I've got a Polyend Seq and am looking at getting a Multiclock so I gan get it running tight with ableton + a novation peak

Couple of questions:

- If I use the multiclock with the seq, this will disable the swing on the seq. Is the swing on the multiclock any good?

- Which device becomes the master transport when I am syncing ableton / seq?

- I am using the seq to trigger sounds in ableton drum rack - with the multiclock set up, I am assuming that sounds that the SEQ triggers will be perfectly in sync with loops I have playing, internally in ableton?

Sorry for all the questions!

Cheers!
pzoot wrote:(Decided not to perpetuate the posting of questions about the Seq in the Eurorack forum's Poly + Seq thread)

What is the best way to "Sync the Seq" in this scenario?

I have a korg microkey that I'd want to use with the Seq -- without any additional equipment, that means I'd take up the USB port on the Seq for that.

I use an ERM Multiclock. Ideally, I'd like to keep that as the master so, from a workflow perspective, it's easy to switch between DAW and manual clock. I assume that will take up the MIDI input on the Seq

Then I have a Poly in my Eurorack that I'd want to use the Seq to control. I think the only port left on the Seq though would be a MIDI DIN output. Can that port handle the bandwidth if there are 8 tracks going with velocity and modulation?

Using the USB port w/ the Poly is possible. But, then I'd need the MIDI in port to sync to Multiclock. And then I don't think I can use the korg keyboard (no more in ports of any kind?)

I guess I could use the Poly as the master clock ... but that's not ideal for my setup a lot of the time.

Any advice?

Thanks!

Link to other thread in Euro forum for those looking for history: viewtopic.php?t=183102&highlight=

Panason
is banned
is banned
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:56 am

Post by Panason » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:14 am

MIDI devices with swing can normally still swing when receiving MIDI clock. The swing is done by the device, not the clock. If the Polyseq doesn't do this I would be extremely disappointed.

The Multiclock also works a MIDI interface:
To become the central connection hub of your setup, a powerful MIDI Router is available. It allows you to route and merge other MIDI data from four USB MIDI ports and the onboard MIDI In with the accurate clock signals.
In my experience, if you use Ableton to send MIDI notes you have to make it the master clock- it will not have good MIDI timing as a slave. IMO Ableton sucks in general and especially for MIDI, and if you' re just starting out I highly recommend learning another DAW..
Can that port handle the bandwidth if there are 8 tracks going with velocity and modulation?
yes but if you send a ton of modulation the receiving device may not be able to process it all in good time. This isn't usually a problem.

Sounds From The Shed
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Sounds From The Shed » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:54 am

[video][/video]

This uses one of the features from the Medusas latest update. I used the Polyend Seq to sequence each of the 6 voices on 6 separate midi tracks.

Only 1 Filter and Envelope Gen makes it tricky but it turned out ok :tu:

amc
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:39 pm
Location: Bucharest

Post by amc » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:51 pm

Polyseq Features Request

After working with the sequencer since it was released, I was expecting constant updates but seems like the company moved to other projects and this one was somehow forgotten.

For a full 1500euros package + poly1 module it's missing some essential features!

Feel free to add to this post.

1.Reset all instruments pattern length when playhead reaches end of longest instrument pattern [1-8]. Assignable for each pattern [1-1...1-10...2-1...2-20..........]

2.Choose between # & b when displaying notes & chords .....

3.Midi Thru or/and one of the Midi 1or 2 out, should output main clock, like this you can free one of the 8 instruments that you should use for emulating cv clock when using the sequencer in a modular setup.


Adding any other common euro rack module from Midi Out 2 that can receive midi to clock / gate / trigger you can use the Poly module from Midi Out 1 just for musical tasks.

4. When switching to another pattern(while pressing the pattern) you should be able to see all the other patterns that have something programmed.

In a live situation this feature is critical ,when you have a dozen programmed, just remembering where everything is while visualising the current pattern & active blinking pattern is confusing.

5. When switching patterns you should be able to have an option regarding how the switch takes place :

- end of current pattern or every beat / like this you should have sync while switching between patterns that have randomise or common play direction (fwd/backward/..... )

6. Renaming patterns will be also a great feature, although I know that you avoided this feature maybe will not be so difficult to implement. At least 3-5 characters length.

7. Double layer A and B for the 8 available instruments --- into 16 instruments adding another Poly module to Midi 2 Output

8. Being able to use external midi keyboard on every channel (not only on CH1) without being in REC mode.

9. Rec Mode you should be able to activate / deactivate the RECording without stopping the pattern.

Playing live on a keyboard and finding the right notes and timing , pressing REC IN/OUT for a few steps and continuing your live performance without stoping.


10. Random play mode should be non-destructive : if 2 instruments are playing all 32 steps and you switch one to Random , you should be able to revert to the original play state (let say FWD) and the patterns should be in sync.

This Random play mode should be seen as a performance tool after you program the notes you want , randomise the play mode for a few measures and come back to the original sequence as programmed.

11. Randomise function for steps in a pattern should have at least 3 options :

Randomise all - notes / gate length / velocity / modulation
Randomise only notes : use this just for notes - the other values gate / length / velocity stay the same
Randomise only length : .......
Randomise only velocity : .......


The overall idea of the Seq is good, but these features are a must if the Seq wants to be a performance sequencer and not just 8 patterns x 32 steps toy!

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:54 am

A question for Seq users,
I am looking to purchase this sequencer. It seems simple, fast and intuitive.
Just to get away from my elektron workflow which can be a math and headphuck game sometimes.

How do you go about creating dynamic modulation to the notes? (Automation)

Let's say I have a note that is 16 steps long.
8 of the steps should have modulation CC 127
the next 8 should have modulation CC 63

It seems ghost notes/notes with only CC is not possible.
And I guess If I enter a note in another lane to create an automation lane, this would have to be Vel. 0
Hence it will cut off the monosynth track with the actual notes. No?

What is your use of the Seq? Still a happy owner?

User avatar
Richard deHove
Common Wiggler
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:32 pm
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Contact:

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by Richard deHove » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:37 pm

I use Seq+Poly. Seq is the master clock with that coming from the DIN MIDI split to an Erica MIDI-to-Clock module. Another DIN out goes to the Poly in Channel mode. So with that you have a range of synced clocks from the Erica module, plus eight channels from the Poly.

Can't answer your question about MIDI changes during sustained notes as I never use that. I much prefer sending a gate to a module and then doing whatever modulation is needed within that. With all my LFOs pre-synced from the Erica module, and with so much channel data available it's more fun to do it in modular than via MIDI.

So I remain very happy with this combo. What I like best is having 8 channels of 32-steps immediately accessible and visible. It means you're extremely unlikely to default to a continually playing short arpeggio-like pattern. With 32 steps and each lane having variable speed and step length you can get huge variation. I also often multi one of the gate patterns and use that to reinforce one of the main lines, for example using that with a sequential switch or triggering the DFAM.

Two things I don't like are the tedious way you have to chain patterns together to get a smooth progression (otherwise the pattern changes as soon as you select it !); and the somewhat restrictive method of recording. And of course this is a mono machine. It does do poly via a chord selection option or using multiple lanes, but the guts is eight mono channels.

Maybe my biggest compliment is to say it's the most direct and least frustrating sequencer I've ever used.

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:23 am

Thank you so much for the feedback.

I am not sure if I should go the Octatrack way or Seq.
I think the Seq. Might yield other results completely.

Do you know if the Seq. Can record Midi CC from another midi keyboard, or is it just velocity?

I just have another question, how does it sync? I am guessing this is not your only sequencer?

How do you mean it's tedious? Isnt it just a few button presses?

oldgearguy
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 432
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 6:42 am

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by oldgearguy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:33 am

I don't think there's an obvious/ easy way to modulate a playing note. From my experiences with the Seq, I find it to be a great sequencer for drum machines, drum synths, and samplers and a just-barely-adequate sequencer for synthesizers.

It is great to see 8 rows of 32 at a time, but the way it handles polyphony and CC modulation (among other things) makes it more challenging to bang in an interesting lead line or a handful of chords (of course it can be done, but it's not straightforward).

Special note to anyone making hardware sequencers - I do not want random direction or random modulation. Give me probability per step instead so I can control/ shape the variations I want.

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:43 am

In that case, I think a track should be able to have note on/off in a "global track setting" so it's possible to fill the entire row with steps that are only vel. + mod. + CC. I can imagine it could be done with some midi filtering in the firmware. I do however have a midipal that can take care of the filtering, but not ideal.

In the end it might be that I will be selling one of my MD's in order to get a OT and have the Seq. As more of an experimental sequencer.
But I really do think that my note filtering idea would be awesome. How else can you really change a chord dynamically over time - this is kind of essential in my music and I guess most others, also for drums. But who knows, there might come a firmware update that will address this matter.
At least it doesnt hurt to ask the makers/developers.
It would be even greater if this could be done per step, so that one doesnt take up an entire track just for modulation, and maybe add some smoothing to the paramters in the menu, if that is what the user wants to add.
I know that the Medusa can do it.... And have something called PM

Is it easy to do triplets on the Seq?

User avatar
Red Electric Rainbow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:48 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:38 am

Richard deHove wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:37 pm
I don't like the tedious way you have to chain patterns together to get a smooth progression (otherwise the pattern changes as soon as you select it !
I had one and let it go because of that. Such a dumb feature, or lack there of. At least give the user the option to have the pattern reset or not. Who did they have beta test this? Epic fail.
TOO FAR GONE

User avatar
Red Electric Rainbow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:48 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:41 am

acidbob wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:43 am
But who knows, there might come a firmware update that will address this matter.
No new firmware updates planned according to the developers. Apparently they are working on other projects instead of actually finishing this one. Don’t hold your breath. #deadtechnology
TOO FAR GONE

User avatar
Richard deHove
Common Wiggler
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:32 pm
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Contact:

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by Richard deHove » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:29 am

It's not a showstopper for me, and you can just chain the patterns like usual. It's just selecting patterns on the fly. But yes, it is an odd choice and I've emailed the devs twice about it (including yesterday) and they continue to claim they love it that way and won't be changing it anytime soon. Here's part of their most recent reply:

" There's a list of things to be added to the Seq functions. The pattern changing with the end of the phrase is on it, but surely not as a priority. This may happen one day, no promises thou."

On other matters, when linked with the Poly there's four outputs per track so it's fun to mix and mult different outputs to multiple tracks - like using the gates on another track as accents on a second; or taking the pitch from one track and using that as an FM input to a different oscillator. The variable speed lanes and ratchets are also fun, plus nudges etc. There's a lot of deep functionality. I also really like the auto save: everything you do is instantly saved so nothing is ever lost or forgotten.

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:45 pm

Ok, I dived in, I hope I will like it. Dont really bother with instagram a lot, but found some really sweet demos there.
Maybe youtube is kind of dying... I mean for demos...?

I hope that the Seq. Is able to start and stop using external midi sync. And that it starts from the 1st. Step when start and stopped externally.
If I send start/stop from my MD. The MD also sends pattern change msg. On CH.10 I hope it doesnt disturb the Seq.

Will let you know how it all pans out, really excited to try it. Think it will bring something else to my setup - maybe new inspiration.
Thanks for all the feedback here.

User avatar
murch33
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:44 pm
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by murch33 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:17 pm

oldgearguy wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:33 am
From my experiences with the Seq, I find it to be a great sequencer for drum machines, drum synths, and samplers and a just-barely-adequate sequencer for synthesizers.
Yup. The reason why I sold mine, unfortunately.

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:54 am

I am wondering if you can clarify this, it has per step:
Note lenght
Volume
Modulation
1x CC

Isnt that enough? - Mind you i am not questioning your decision, but just wondering what you feel is missing?

I am thinking about paring the Seq with a 1010 Blackbox.

I have been using the MD for many years as my primary sequencer to drive synths.
The only difference is more CC, aftertouch and pitchbend.
I rarely use pitchbend, this parameter can only be controlled really with a CTR8P machine, which also makes the machinedrum into the perfect midi automation machine.

In case you guys didnt know this trick about the MD - Yes it can do the same as the MnM and some newer Elektron machines.
It took me 6 years before I figured this out:

Add the CTR8P machine to a track.
Add your midi CCs to the assign screen of the CTR8P
Place a trigger on all steps on the CTR8P machine
Place a slide to all triggers you just put in
Now, when pressing the rec. Button and you play the track you will be able to push down the encoder and turn it -
The MD have now recorded automation to all your steps with smoothing (Because of the slides)

Now you will also have a lot of midi LFO's, just like the OT.
The cool thing about this is that you dont need to actually send a midi note to any machine, it's only automation and it works even if you dont
actually place a trigger on a midi machine.

If you pair this feature with a midi to CV box/module, you will have excelent control over long notes and envelopes that has VC.
I have the Ladik easy quantizer and the burst generator, its so much fun to pair them with the CTR8P.
The easy quantizer has VC for controlling the octave and transpose. Instant electro feel - much like the Metropolis

Mind you, it's best to setup the CTR8P machine before parameterlocking your actual midi sequence from the midi track it self.
You can imagine why 8-)

User avatar
lmixl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:12 pm
Location: Riverside County

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by lmixl » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:08 pm

I do have the chance to get 2 poly seqs., just to give polyphony right space to move in...
I just like the workflow on the seqs.

Do you think one poly seq. with a squarp pyramid would make more sense? ( in order to cover both worlds: drumkit and plenty of polyphonic tracks)
Also, when working in song mode...how easy would be to integrate both PS and Pyramid...timeline wise, arranging/sync patterns and so on...

To me...having 2 poly seqs. makes a better integration and overall efficiency

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:32 pm

I have been using the seq for some time now and it works ok together with my elektron boxes, but the fact that seq is 32 steps and elektron is 64 is a bit annoying. Especially since the seq link doesnt work that well, meaning when in the first pattern of two linked patterns i am not able to keep adjust parameters or note values whenever seq has moved on to the second pattern, it forces you to work within the timeframe of only the currently visible pattern and its steps. As you might know you can setup the elektron gear to follow a master pos. Song pointer, but this doesnt work on seq. And also whenever you try to disable any incoming midi msg. From other gear and hold down a step, seq sees this as an input your are trying to make, so midi thru from another midi sequencer cannot be used. Then you would need a midi filter or a dedicated master clock. So all in all i would say seq is cool, i like it. But the fact that midi input cannot be disabled annoys the hell out of me. Other than that i like the workflow and it is super fast to come up with great ideas. But working beyond the 32 steps is a pain. Also you cannot copy one step lane from one pattern to another, this is a shame. I would say seq. Is best used with another seq. But i dont know the pyramid that well. Make sure the pyramid has a midi ouput that only outputs clock and start/stop if you want to use it as a master to drive the seq. I personally think with a few small tweaks, seq would be awesome. But right now it is mostly just a good sketch pad and not good for entire songs, if the small thing were sorted i would give it 10 out of 10. As it stand now i am giving it 6/7. Polyphony is awesome on the seq. So at that specific topic i would give it 10!

User avatar
lmixl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:12 pm
Location: Riverside County

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by lmixl » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:32 pm

Automation has to be live and not recorded , right? On the seq.

So, 2 seqs...would make more sense in order to avoid different midi specs you mentioned. ( as long as I like seqs. Limitations and workflow)

How is patten chaining on the seq.?

User avatar
acidbob
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by acidbob » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:45 am

On the seq. You can record into the sequencer with a midi keyboard, a lane can be poly or mono.
Or you can set up several lanes to get input from the same midi channel, in that case notes will be placed in several lanes, which is cool imo.
I think only velocity can be recorded with an external keyboard, I am not completely sure about the CC.
TBH I have not tried it. I like to program it.

Well. Hmm. I am not sure, the squarp has cool features too. So depending on if you can cope with working on different machines at the same time.
For me, I know the elektron workflow in my sleep so it's not really an issue as such.
As for my comment earlier about 32 vs. 64 steps, I could of course have last step set to 32 on the elektron boxes. And that would pretty much solve it.

The Pyramid has as far as I know lots of CC and can record CC on "non active" steps, meaning in automation lanes, as far as I am aware this is not possible on the seq. But I was told that a fix was to make all steps active but use velocity to mute the step from actually playing, hence you can have CC values on all steps.

Pattern chaining is super easy, and yes, you can make songs with it. But there is no arranger of window where you can see what is linked to what.
You have to go into each pattern and see what it links to.

Its just another way of working.

It's hard to give advice on. It all depends on what you like and what your goals are.
For me personally I would combine seq. With something that has lots of CC available, like the Digitakt, digitone or Pyramid.
But it depends on how much control you would like to have over, say, filter, EG, reso, LFO etc. etc.

User avatar
lmixl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:12 pm
Location: Riverside County

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by lmixl » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:29 am

Appreciate your input! Thank you!
acidbob wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:45 am
On the seq. You can record into the sequencer with a midi keyboard, a lane can be poly or mono.
Or you can set up several lanes to get input from the same midi channel, in that case notes will be placed in several lanes, which is cool imo.
I think only velocity can be recorded with an external keyboard, I am not completely sure about the CC.
TBH I have not tried it. I like to program it.

Well. Hmm. I am not sure, the squarp has cool features too. So depending on if you can cope with working on different machines at the same time.
For me, I know the elektron workflow in my sleep so it's not really an issue as su
As for my comment earlier about 32 vs. 64 steps, I could of course have last step set to 32 on the elektron boxes. And that would pretty much solve it.

The Pyramid has as far as I know lots of CC and can record CC on "non active" steps, meaning in automation lanes, as far as I am aware this is not possible on the seq. But I was told that a fix was to make all steps active but use velocity to mute the step from actually playing, hence you can have CC values on all steps.

Pattern chaining is super easy, and yes, you can make songs with it. But there is no arranger of window where you can see what is linked to what.
You have to go into each pattern and see what it links to.

Its just another way of working.

It's hard to give advice on. It all depends on what you like and what your goals are.
For me personally I would combine seq. With something that has lots of CC available, like the Digitakt, digitone or Pyramid.
But it depends on how much control you would like to have over, say, filter, EG, reso, LFO etc. etc.

User avatar
lmixl
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:12 pm
Location: Riverside County

Re: Polyend Seq

Post by lmixl » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:42 am

So, One midi modulation cc per track...do you know if this modulation is saved per pattern when linking patterns in song mode?

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”