BR-909

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Xmit
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Post by Xmit » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:14 am

what would be brilliant, is if Roland has been secretly developing a re-release of the TR808 and TR909, along with new modern features
they have. it's called the TR8-S & it's brilliant. :hihi:

What's that you say ...? " but it's not analogue" ....

Whatever. 8-)

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Post by Panason » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:37 am

I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference. People talk about the subtle variations that happen with them which add movement to patterns... but this movement can be achieved (and more predictably) in many other ways with a little programming and the right sounds.

Maybe if you're doing jazzy electronica for lounge listening, the way a real 808 behaves adds a certain something...
But for dance tracks it's not needed and will not matter when the stuff is being pumped out of large sound systems mixed with all sorts of other sounds. In fact that is where you may not want the kick drum to have random variations.

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Post by makhho » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:21 am

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Last edited by makhho on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by anselmi » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:42 pm

Panason wrote:I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference. People talk about the subtle variations that happen with them which add movement to patterns... but this movement can be achieved (and more predictably) in many other ways with a little programming and the right sounds.

Maybe if you're doing jazzy electronica for lounge listening, the way a real 808 behaves adds a certain something...
But for dance tracks it's not needed and will not matter when the stuff is being pumped out of large sound systems mixed with all sorts of other sounds. In fact that is where you may not want the kick drum to have random variations.
I used to think in this way, until I heard a real 909 through a great system in a sound test ... man, that was really special ...

Don´t ask me why, but this machine kicked the TR-8's ass in the same system

I programmed the same basic house and techno patterns on both machines and then spotted the 909 on several blind tests in a heartbeat

I really can´t explain what was the difference, the TR-8 sounded OK, but the 909 did the extra mile ... it moved you even with the simplest of the patterns.

I would have loved to have my digitakt at this time to compare with, because I think it sounds great on big systems and maybe it would have prevented me from start drooling for the real 909 (again)

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Post by dubonaire » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:48 pm

anselmi wrote:
Panason wrote:I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference. People talk about the subtle variations that happen with them which add movement to patterns... but this movement can be achieved (and more predictably) in many other ways with a little programming and the right sounds.

Maybe if you're doing jazzy electronica for lounge listening, the way a real 808 behaves adds a certain something...
But for dance tracks it's not needed and will not matter when the stuff is being pumped out of large sound systems mixed with all sorts of other sounds. In fact that is where you may not want the kick drum to have random variations.
I used to think in this way, until I heard a real 909 through a great system in a sound test ... man, that was really special ...
And my Jomox 999 is the biggest thing I've heard on a big system.

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Post by Shledge » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:25 am

I'm not massively fussed if the drums are analogue or digital. Personally it's not the first thing I look for in a drum machine. Flexibility is the main factor.

Also ITT: people don't understand about louder = apparently sounding "fatter". I bet that 909 kickdrum was clipping the shit out of your mixer.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:43 am

Shledge wrote:I'm not massively fussed if the drums are analogue or digital. Personally it's not the first thing I look for in a drum machine. Flexibility is the main factor.

Also ITT: people don't understand about louder = apparently sounding "fatter". I bet that 909 kickdrum was clipping the shit out of your mixer.
I bet I know how to gain stage in a live situation.

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Post by Panason » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:43 am

I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference.
Sorry, I meant analog drum machines, not their sounds. IMO, there is no real world difference in using good samples of the analog drum sounds- no need to have the actual drum machine playing.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:00 am

Panason wrote:
I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference.
Sorry, I meant analog drum machines, not their sounds. IMO, there is no real world difference in using good samples of the analog drum sounds- no need to have the actual drum machine playing.
I think there is.

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Post by oscilloscope » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:15 am

anselmi wrote: I used to think in this way, until I heard a real 909 through a great system in a sound test ... man, that was really special ...

Don´t ask me why, but this machine kicked the TR-8's ass in the same system

I programmed the same basic house and techno patterns on both machines and then spotted the 909 on several blind tests in a heartbeat

I really can´t explain what was the difference, the TR-8 sounded OK, but the 909 did the extra mile ... it moved you even with the simplest of the patterns.
Doing a TR 909 vs TR 09 test would have been more interesting. The ACB technology on the TR 09 is second generation as compared to the TR 8.
I can tell you from personal experience the TR 09 not only packs an uncanny punch, but also sounds just great.
:nana:

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Post by organon » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:48 am

makhho wrote:I think analog voices shine when you outboard process -- it's those indi outs that are so crucial for "sound design" :^)
That's exactly it. The most interesting part of the Behringer 808/909 is that you get all those individual outs that you can for example send through your eurorack, bitcrush, delay, filter, saturate and route as you please. Plus you hopefully get clock sync triggers so you don't have to rely on shitty midi sync. Plus it is fun and immediate with no menus and sample banks to scroll through.

If the sound source itself is sample based or analog is something I couldn't care less about.

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Post by Panason » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:11 am

Yep they both appear to have analog clock input at the back. It would be nice if this works with audio pulses....

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umma gumma
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Post by umma gumma » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:43 pm

quoting oscilloscope: "Doing a TR 909 vs TR 09 test would have been more interesting. The ACB technology on the TR 09 is second generation as compared to the TR 8.
I can tell you from personal experience the TR 09 not only packs an uncanny punch, but also sounds just great. "

one reason I like analog is because it's real...it works as-is, you don't have "new improved version 2 emulation" of the real thing, coming out next year

it is the real thing

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Post by Shledge » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:55 am

Plus you hopefully get clock sync triggers so you don't have to rely on shitty midi sync
If you do it properly, MIDI clock is rock solid.

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Post by oscilloscope » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:04 pm

umma gumma wrote: one reason I like analog is because it's real...
As far as I am concerned, the only real thing in electronic music, analog or digital or hybrid or whatever ... is what comes out of this:

Image

Man-In-A-Suitcase

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:58 pm

oscilloscope wrote:
As far as I am concerned, the only real thing in electronic music, analog or digital or hybrid or whatever ... is what comes out of this:

Image
yeah! it comes out of a speaker. but with most folks, the way they go on about things on MW it comes out of their ass.

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Post by Sinamsis » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:18 pm

dubonaire wrote:
anselmi wrote:
Panason wrote:I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference. People talk about the subtle variations that happen with them which add movement to patterns... but this movement can be achieved (and more predictably) in many other ways with a little programming and the right sounds.

Maybe if you're doing jazzy electronica for lounge listening, the way a real 808 behaves adds a certain something...
But for dance tracks it's not needed and will not matter when the stuff is being pumped out of large sound systems mixed with all sorts of other sounds. In fact that is where you may not want the kick drum to have random variations.
I used to think in this way, until I heard a real 909 through a great system in a sound test ... man, that was really special ...
And my Jomox 999 is the biggest thing I've heard on a big system.

I actually recently snagged a 999. I had watched the 888s and 999s for years but always felt too stingy to drop the money on them. Found a deal on a 999 and I actually really like it. Just got rid of my Nava 909. It scratches that analog drum machine itch, has a big sound, decent MIDI implementation, and complements my other synths nicely. I haven't had extensive time with it, but immediately I felt the kick cuts through. Maybe I'm crazy though.

And there's always an analog vs digital debate. Personally I think everything has it's role, and there is a difference. I think some is exaggerated, and in the mix who really gives a shit. But the drift you get from analog, while it can be replicated, is unique particularly when oscillators are stacked and multiple voices are used. Anyways, that's not really the point of this thread. More concretely, I found my Machinedrum did a fairly convincing analog drum sound, but I really did find something unique to the sound of the Nava, and now the Jomox.

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umma gumma
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Post by umma gumma » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:38 am

oscilloscope wrote:
As far as I am concerned, the only real thing in electronic music, analog or digital or hybrid or whatever ... is what comes out of this:

Image

good for you!!

whatever floats your boat

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Post by dubonaire » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Sinamsis wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
anselmi wrote:
Panason wrote:I'm really not convinced that analog drums make a difference. People talk about the subtle variations that happen with them which add movement to patterns... but this movement can be achieved (and more predictably) in many other ways with a little programming and the right sounds.

Maybe if you're doing jazzy electronica for lounge listening, the way a real 808 behaves adds a certain something...
But for dance tracks it's not needed and will not matter when the stuff is being pumped out of large sound systems mixed with all sorts of other sounds. In fact that is where you may not want the kick drum to have random variations.
I used to think in this way, until I heard a real 909 through a great system in a sound test ... man, that was really special ...
And my Jomox 999 is the biggest thing I've heard on a big system.
I don't want to derail the thread, but the other cool thing is some of the dirty percussion samples.

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Post by mor4sso » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:11 pm

anyone that says the new roland stuff doesnt knock needs to leave their bedroom studio every once in while...

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Post by Panason » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:31 pm

Maybe they knock but they are toys with tiny controls, minijack outputs etc etc.
It's insulting and cynical. "You really want knobs and analog but we're gonna cut costs to the max so here's your frigging knobs and analog-like sound".

I listened to an a/b between tr08 and tr808 and was not sold.

The crazy thing is that people would have PAID Roland whatever price they asked for real analog re-makes of the classics. The US market alone would have sucked it all up.

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Post by GUM » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:59 pm

I get all the complaints lobbed at the Boutique series ie small knobs, not analogue, cheap feeling, a/b comparisons are off, etc. but to me they sound pretty damn good and, as instruments, serve their purpose well. The fact that you can walk around with a new tb303 and 909 in your backpack in 2018 is pretty amazing. Again, it's all personal taste, but I've seen a lot of 'respected' producers use them live.

also can't ignore the delicious irony of seeing people griping about these machines on message boards and dismissing them as 'toys' and then a few hours later walking by the skatepark in chinatown and seeing a group of kids w/ portable speakers banging out some wild-ass music on these things in broad daylight. while the cranks gripe on the internet about the tr-08 not sounding 'exactly' like the original we have kids who could care less out there making the future of music.

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Post by Ranxerox » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:21 pm

No-one cares about anyone's issues with whose products end up on which shelves.

As always, all that matters is whether the tools are used for ill or good.

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Post by Panason » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:41 pm

The kids will get better gear as soon as they can afford it.. as for the "future of music", how did you like dubstep?

Anyway, over on GS there are people trying to argue that silicone buttons are better and "Elektron use them so they must be good".
The facepalming is real!

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Post by Panason » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:32 pm

Uli B (or his PR bot) has just posted an update on the GS thread...
We're still targeting US$ 299 retail (depending on import tariffs).
Image
Silicone buttons :waah:

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