New from Moog - Sirin

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anselmi
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Post by anselmi » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:15 pm

sounds great in most settings, upper range included

[video][/video]

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phesago
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Post by phesago » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:07 pm

ive had mine for about a week. It sounds pretty decent actually - rather surprised. The limited interface doesnt really bug me that much either. Ill most likely keep it as ive record twice with it so far (not good stuff)

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Post by geoffmar » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:04 pm

i've got a bit of "moog fatigue" tbh

this doesn't really excite me - i've owned a minitaur, sub 37, sub phatty and currently have a grandmother and a few moogerfoogers. The tonal similarities are both a plus and a minus. I go to it when i need "that moog sound* but for the most part, I just can't really get excited when they keep putting out twists on the same general architecture.

If i didn't have a grandmother or *any* moog I'd be really interested in this. I'm not trying to rag on moog - i love their brand and sound. I just hope they aren't pigeonholing themselves.

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Post by Yes Powder » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:21 am

I've been seeing a few of these popping up on Reverb. Almost impulse-bought one for cheap, but then I remembered about the hidden software-only parameters.
So what happens when Moog Music stops supporting the program or hardware, and the software is no longer compatible with the latest OSes? Are they just gonna throw their hands up in the air like, " That's it. Thanks for playing. Yeah, I dunno how you're gonna get those parameters either. Maybe if you're lucky in a few years someone will code something that's compatible with modern computers,"; or is there a way to access the hidden parameters without a computer?

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anselmi
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Post by anselmi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:16 pm

Yes Powder wrote:I've been seeing a few of these popping up on Reverb. Almost impulse-bought one for cheap, but then I remembered about the hidden software-only parameters.
So what happens when Moog Music stops supporting the program or hardware, and the software is no longer compatible with the latest OSes? Are they just gonna throw their hands up in the air like, " That's it. Thanks for playing. Yeah, I dunno how you're gonna get those parameters either. Maybe if you're lucky in a few years someone will code something that's compatible with modern computers,"; or is there a way to access the hidden parameters without a computer?
stop whining and read pages 22-24 of the manual

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Post by DMR » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:02 pm

Yes Powder wrote:I've been seeing a few of these popping up on Reverb. Almost impulse-bought one for cheap, but then I remembered about the hidden software-only parameters.
So what happens when Moog Music stops supporting the program or hardware, and the software is no longer compatible with the latest OSes? Are they just gonna throw their hands up in the air like, " That's it. Thanks for playing. Yeah, I dunno how you're gonna get those parameters either. Maybe if you're lucky in a few years someone will code something that's compatible with modern computers,"; or is there a way to access the hidden parameters without a computer?
There are no software only parameters really, everything is accessible via standard MIDI commands or button presses on the unit.

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Post by mrhooks » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:28 am

I have one, and I like it. I want(ed) a Subsequent37 (and really want a Matriarch), but I can't afford one of those and Eurorack, plus I need to keep my synths small (I also own two drumsets and two pianos, one a grand, plus other, smaller instruments). So this scratches my Moog itch for now. I'm not a fan of having to use a computer to access every feature and have an adequate way to deal with presets, but it sounds great - it's almost impossible for me to make a bad patch. In an apples to apples comparison with the Subsequent37, I think it sounds noticeably better, but of course the Subsequent37 has way more features. Its oscillators aren't quite as strong as the Minitaurs - the sawtooth wave is nearly the same, but the square wave is noticeably less fat and more hollow - more of a "true" square wave sound, I guess.

The secondary knob functions actually aren't that difficult to remember. They're placed quite logically - LFO rate = LFO wave shape, mixer VCO 1 = mixer audio in, etc. Still, it would have been nice if they made if a little bigger and gave it a few more controls, especially a small screen for presets.

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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by behndy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:06 pm

how's everyone getting on with theirs after the honeymoon phase? i have INTERESTS in the beautiful little cutie.

one can change presets over CC program change? or just through the computer app? or is there a button combo for preset switching?

thanks!
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mrhooks
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by mrhooks » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:43 am

behndy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:06 pm
how's everyone getting on with theirs after the honeymoon phase? i have INTERESTS in the beautiful little cutie.
I still love it. Sometimes I think I should've saved some money and bought a Bass Station, but then I play it, and my doubts are gone. If you are okay with its limited feature set, and don't have Moog fatigue, you'll probably love it too.
one can change presets over CC program change? or just through the computer app? or is there a button combo for preset switching?
The manual says NO re: CC program change transmit and recognize. You can cycle through presets using the VCO buttons while holding down the Glide button, but of course it's much easier to use the app.
Last edited by mrhooks on Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave Kendall
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by Dave Kendall » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:04 pm

Sirin does receive regular MIDI program changes 1 - 128, according to the manual "cheat sheet"
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by WaveRider » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:40 pm

behndy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:06 pm
how's everyone getting on with theirs after the honeymoon phase? i have INTERESTS in the beautiful little cutie.

one can change presets over CC program change? or just through the computer app? or is there a button combo for preset switching?

thanks!
I returned one. Good analog synth engine but a stupid digital control program on top.

App would not calibrate cv input. Tracked accurately less than 2 octaves over midi. I wanted a monosynth with memories, but having no display of a program number on the unit kind of nullified the feature. Could not change the base note to play with modular.

I liked the sound especially the osc go low and sound deep but disliked the package, also has a lot of hidden parameters accessible with shorcuts that you have to remember or look on the cheat sheet. KInd of hated having some modulation that I forgot how to remove or adjust. I did not keep it long enough I guess but it was in need of calibration, and I had enough of that already with my modular, and brand new with poor tracking, that got me kind of disgusted, cause what I got from Moog was a few calibration procedures, I tried one with their app and it did not work, so fuck that. Luckily I was able to return it to the store for credit.

Moog never made a synth I could afford and liked. I hear horror stories about low quality control with grandmother and co..

On the other hand, I have a B ms-101 with buggy clicking filter envelope so that brand won't make it either into my rig. Still that one was perfectly calibrated, perfect tuning over 4 octaves and super precise volt/oct cv in and out.


As for the Sirin, one pure analog (not digitally controlled) with 1 knob per function without patch memories, would have been better for me.

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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by Xmit » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:51 am

I hear horror stories about low quality control with grandmother and co
maybe... but is that becasue we only hear about those -the people who have got perfect units with no issues ( I got one of the
very first GMs in the UK ) tend not to post about it on forums...?
I'd still ike to know if the number of 'bad' GMs out there really is disproportinately high, or not ?

Not being a Moog fanboy or anything here - that's just my personal experience. Over the last few years I've bought 2 x M-32, a DFAM & the GM.

All absolutely spot-on.

Ironically the thing I did have a tonne of issues with was my Voyager Old School : damn thing kept blowing up more often than not. Had the whole analogue board replaced & even then OSC 3 wasn't right. In the end I had to cut my losses & move it on - It was gorgeous but it cost me a fortune !

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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by mrhooks » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:31 pm

Dave Kendall wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:04 pm
Sirin does receive regular MIDI program changes 1 - 128, according to the manual "cheat sheet"
Hmm, am I understanding the manual's MIDI implementation chart incorrectly then?
WaveRider wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:40 pm
App would not calibrate cv input. Tracked accurately less than 2 octaves over midi. I wanted a monosynth with memories, but having no display of a program number on the unit kind of nullified the feature. Could not change the base note to play with modular.
My Sirin has no MIDI tracking issues. I agree about the lack of a display. I'm guessing Moog decided it would be redundant, since it's best used tethered to a computer anyway. I'd kill for Moog to make a Sirin XL with the Subsequent 37's features, although I'd have a difficult time affording it.

As for changing the base note, unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, couldn't you tune the modular to the Sirin, or only use Sirin's VCO 2?
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Dave Kendall
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by Dave Kendall » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:56 pm

mrhooks wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:31 pm
Dave Kendall wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:04 pm
Sirin does receive regular MIDI program changes 1 - 128, according to the manual "cheat sheet"
Hmm, am I understanding the manual's MIDI implementation chart incorrectly then?
Yes, but that's good news :) The Sirin can receive Program Changes, and can save, advance and decrement patches via the front panel, as well as via the software editor.

Where confusion may have crept in, is that the manual states somewhat ambiguously;
Manual PGM.png
"almost any MIDI controller" refers to MIDI HARDWARE controllers, like the Behringer BCR or a controller keyboard, and not to any MIDI Continuous Controller number from 0 - 127. The MIDI Implementation chart confirms it does indeed send and receive regular MIDI Program changes. The MIDI Program Change message is different to MIDI CCs 0 -127, and has a 2-byte structure.
MIDI CCs are 3-byte, and not normally used for the PGM change job (I can't really think of any real-world reasons for wanting to do things that way)

The Moog Sirin's MIDI implementation looks very well-designed. It uses common MIDI CC's which are easy to set up, and are MUCH faster than sys-ex messages for controlling parameters in real-time, and almost every parameter can be controlled in the Sirin.

Excerpt from the MIDI implementation chart below - the 2nd column shows transmitted events, the 3rd column, received events.
Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 17.34.32.png
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mrhooks
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by mrhooks » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:35 pm

Dave Kendall wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:56 pm
Excerpt from the MIDI implementation chart below - the 2nd column shows transmitted events, the 3rd column, received events.
Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 17.34.32.png
I could've sworn I downloaded the latest manual, but mine says NO in both columns. Good to know. Thanks!
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Dave Kendall
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by Dave Kendall » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:55 am

Looks like they added some serious useful extra functionality then ! :)
Apologies for the lengthy post - you obviously do know your stuff. It can be hard to tell how much somebody knows about the nuts and bolts of MIDI, so I played safe.

I got curious, and had to look it up (I'm still heroically resisting GAS on a Sirin . . . so far . . .)
Quite an impressive MIDI spec for a small unit - it would work very well as a MIDI expander for a live rig, as well as for DAW work.

A while back, there was a discussion on Gearslutz about the differences between the Minitaur and the Sirin, and when a photo emerged of the main board having "Minitaur Main Board" or similar on the PCB silkscreen, there was debate over the difference in note-range and price between the two.

Only Moog knows about the price difference, but one poster (who worked for Valhallasoft IIRC) suggested that the range difference was down to the timing capacitors in the Sirin's VCOs being smaller, thus shifting the whole range upwards, along with different firmware and probably a few other component changes on the common PCB.

Seems logical enough !
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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by WaveRider » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:18 pm

mrhooks wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:31 pm
....since it's best used tethered to a computer anyway......
yeah I use a 100% hardware setup, so it does not fit my workflow in that sense, having to connect a laptop to it just to know on witch patch number I am did not work well for me. I tough about it but I decided it was not for me.
mrhooks wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:31 pm
As for changing the base note, unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, couldn't you tune the modular to the Sirin, or only use Sirin's VCO 2?
well I tune my ocs in the modular to some base note, like if the track is in A, I will tune my osc so 0volt=A, I cannot change the base note of the Sirin, it will always be a C, the tuning pot on the SIrin has a limited range, for basic tuning only. I can do that with my SEM. Not that of a big deal. The killer was bad cv calibration. Overall the adjustment of the cv input behaviour at 1v/oct is made with an app on the Sirin (and it did not work well on mine) I prefer having access to 1v/oct trimmers myself, but they should come well calibrated when new anyway.

SO in a way it did not work well in my recallable MIDI setup (no way to know on witch patch I am) and not that well with the modular (cannot change the base note) and the hardware interface is not 1:1 so that also bugged me a bit. I have store credit and ordered a Korg Wavestate instead, so the modular will continue to take the place of the monosynth. My best candidate now for my midi rig is a Waldorf Pulse 2 and for the moog sound I might get a Boog someday. Unless Moog does something for me and my budget but I am not counting on that. :hihi:

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Re: New from Moog - Sirin

Post by mrhooks » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:55 pm

WaveRider wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:18 pm
yeah I use a 100% hardware setup, so it does not fit my workflow in that sense, having to connect a laptop to it just to know on witch patch number I am did not work well for me. I tough about it but I decided it was not for me.
Yeah, I don't blame you. I'm not a fan either. I sometimes end up treating it like a Minimoog, not saving any patches. While Sirin can save patches without a computer, eventually I'll need to connect it in order to name it, not to mention fiddle with the patch order.
well I tune my ocs in the modular to some base note, like if the track is in A, I will tune my osc so 0volt=A, I cannot change the base note of the Sirin, it will always be a C,
Ah. I read something in the Moog forum about sending voltages other than +1V and +4V to Minitaur when calibrating to tune the base note. Sounds like a minor pain. I either play Sirin manually, or sequence it with MIDI, so I haven't had to deal with it.
Unless Moog does something for me and my budget but I am not counting on that. :hihi:
LOL, Moog doesn't know the meaning of the word.
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